WITNESS SEARCH UPDATE FOR CANADIAN FATCA IGA LAWSUIT:
WE STILL SEEK MORE CANADIAN WITNESSES:
Have you experienced marital stress or breakup, or medical or psychiatric illness because Canada turned you and your family over to a foreign country — or because you were afraid and entered into IRS compliance and suffered harm, or because you are in “hiding” and can’t afford to be IRS compliant or to renounce? Be a witness.
No single witness will be “perfect” from a litigation point of view. We will be seeking more witnesses (almost) right up to the time of submission of court documents. Your specific situation, that we cannot predict, might have unique characteristics that would be helpful in the lawsuit.
If you cannot be a witness, please tell a friend who you think might be interested.
— If you are interested in becoming a witness You will describe your harm in a written affidavit which will be made public and you can contact me at stephen.kish.chair@adcs-adsc.ca See our website at www.adcs-adsc-ca
FOR THOSE CANADIANS WHO ALREADY VOLUNTEERED: Unless you have already been informed by me or by our legal team that you will not be a witness, there is still the possibility — or (for some) likelihood — that you will be asked to be a witness. I’m sorry but I cannot estimate the time it will take for our legal team to get back to you with their decision. This is because they need to “mesh” the characteristics of all of the necessary witnesses and testimonies with the actual detailed submission that contains the entirety of their evidence, which are all still evolving. Please be patient in our getting back to you with a decision. Thank you for your help.
“Contamination” is great, actually.
Hmmm…so, if ‘true non-Americans’ would refuse a free offer of non-US status, then all those who complied in order to renounce (at great expense) are not true non-Americans even though they are not technically American anymore.
Isn’t that right BB?
@ WhiteKat
I have no idea what I would do. I don’t deal well with speculations and hypotheticals. Hypothetically, as in just for laughs, Trump can strip my citizenship and I’d be thrilled. But I know that isn’t go to happen just as I knew Obama’s solution was a farce.
Like MF, I am angrier with Canada. What they have done to us is fact.
@WK
I think they recognize that the renunciation process makes them non-Americans, at least administratively.
That’s what many people are grappling with, that they have to give up their US citizenship because of the administrative burdens the US places upon them – not because they want to.
@Ginny
Maybe it can happen:-) Lived in Windsor from ’79 to ’86. Crossed the border weekly with just a driver’s license! Those were the days!
@ Lake Superior
Same here, by car, by bus or by boat. Easier times. But I bet you don’t miss the humidity. After our lunch we can stroll to the river and make nasty faces across it. I think Blaze and Native Canadian burned the stars and stripes at their Canada Day party.
My oldest son was born on the Centennial Canada Day so I have to behave on his birthday 🙂
@Ginny
I believe they just hung the flag upside down, at my suggestion as a sign of “distress”.
Old age pension application.
Asked if you were born in Canada and lived there continuously.
Asked for other countries benefit and talked about Social Security agreement.
I was out of country for 1.2 year a long time ago. No SS benefit. Do not even know SS number. The government is telling you to not inform bank if you have green card.
OAS talked about sharing information with other countries.
If you receive no benefit from other countries there would be no monetary benefit.
Talked about repaying benefit to which there is no entitlement. In my case none.
But it also talked about being charged under an offense.
Paid SIN in the 2 calenader years I was not in country.
Legal opinion (John Richardson or a lawyer) is there any chance they could charge you with an offense, when it did not change your benefit?
Can the government change the forms?
Ask if you are a Canadian citizen or resident.
Are you able to receive benefit from other countries.
Go here see application and information sheet
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/fi-if/index.jsp?app=prfl&frm=isp3000
Can Supreme Court challenge eliminate question 15 if no foreign benefit receive modify question 12 to only ask if you are a Canadian citizen and are not entitled to foreign benefits.
@Ginny
Yes the humidity nearly killed me! But the early springs were nice…went to Leamington for a small town experience and Jack Miners. Good memories. Never made it to the Top Hat though…guess I better stop this nostalgia thread!
@ Home
It was a few years ago that I applied for CPP and OAS and I don’t know if there have been any changes in the forms or procedures since then. I remember that without any request from me, Service Canada communicated with Social Security to see if I had any SS benefits due. The answer was zero benefits due. (SS sent me a letter saying so after Service Canada communicated with them.) I knew that all along (had no US salary which was needed to qualify) so I really wasn’t too happy about their “helpful” communications. Anyway I’ll be interested to see what replies you get to your questions.
@WhiteKat
“I am a ‘true non-American’ just like MF, yet I would happily pay a couple hundred bucks (a reasonable admin fee) for proof of non-US status if that is all it took. ”
Unfortunately it’s not that simple even if you consider the practical aspects of it. By accepting such an offer, you are A) agreeing to have been a US citizen, and as a result B) are now willfully under the jurisdiction of the USA no matter what the offer may otherwise indicate.
As we know all to well, the US government has re-interpreted their laws concerning who is and who is not a citizen. Whatever agreement the US may hold in front of you as a carrot today, can just as easily vanish into thin air tomorrow.
IMHO we are far better off taking the “stubborn” stance, however impractical it may seem at first. It will work best if it is done in large enough numbers, which sadly may not be the case, as it is easy to get suckered more than once with offers of freedom and leniency, each of these offers only further imprisons you, so don’t take the bait!
Don’t take my word for it, look at the history around this ridiculous issue and make up your own mind.
“it is easy to get suckered”
I apologize for that choice of words.
Those of us who are abused, placed into a disadvantaged position, threatened and frightened, it is all too tempting to take an offer of freedom or leniency from the abuser.
There is no shame for your decisions when you are victimized, the abuser is usually very good at collecting victims, otherwise they would not exist for very long.
We have to stand together, and be stronger and smarter than the abuser if we’re to win this fight.
I think IRS and SS pass information between two.
Also look at the form.
Do you know the exact date you lived in place, worked and returned to Canada.
@Bubblebustin
“you can not shed your place of birth so you are subject to discrimination for the rest of your life.”
The place of birth thing is a real problem because it subjects you to discrimination no matter what you do. Imagine that you have to carry along with you official paperwork proving to a potential abuser that, despite what your passport or birth certificate indicates, or some other criteria indicates, or that your name appears on an unaccountable secret list, that you are no longer a US citizen. It’s a rather bleak outlook to be burdened with for the rest of your life. You had better not forget to take along those papers, who knows when you’ll need them. Even if you have the papers, well, they must be looked at with a critical eye, examined very carefully, because those papers could be forgeries.
No thanks, that’s not the life I want to live.
I find it interesting that the Canadian government allows us to officially change our birth name, what they should also allow, is a change of birth location.
Some of you may not know that you do not have to indicate your place of birth on a Canadian passport, however, when traveling abroad, you may face serious problems if the place of birth is left blank.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passport/apply/omit-place-birth.asp
If the government allowed us to officially change our place of birth, and give us an official new birth certificate, it would solve a whole lot of problems and make traveling abroad a whole lot safer.
@ Home
It’s possible SS and IRS communicate but Service Canada requires information about any time lived outside of Canada (if greater than 6 months, I think) to determine how much OAS will be paid, so what can you do?
You have to work 10 years in USA to receive SS. Can they ask that question instead?
Can they demand that information on SS benefit be confidential and not supplied to IRS?
@ Home
Sorry I haven’t any answers for you but you do raise a valid concern that the process of getting OAS could be a trap for some people with all that communicating between OAS, SS and possibly IRS. 🙁
A couple thoughts. Firstly so nice to read more frequent comments from Middle Finger as we are on the same page.
Also I think the commenters, so varied in experiences with this nightmare, have reached the consensus that we will support each other no matter what this new existence has forced us to do to protect ourselves and our families. Clearly our paths and choices are varied.
As to OAS, my reward finally for being long in tooth which I duly celebrated was interesting. Can’t remember all the details actually but I do recall it required a few extra steps. I went and applied in person. There must have been a POB question but the government worker who assisted me provided a lot of help.
To me the criteria at first seemed simple, i.e.: you qualified if you met the residency qualifications. Ten years, twenty, I don’t remember. I guess then citizenship reared its ugly head and this was before FATCA was in its gestation. Anyway, I provided my Canadian citizenship certificate ( an unusual story for another day) which should have qualified me. But the Fed agent took the extra step and had me swear an affidavit concerning the fact that both my parents ( deceased) were born in Canada and I had acquired Canadian citizenship at birth and had lived here since age five. Thus I qualified all ways since Sunday and got a retroactive cheque and monthly since then. It is not based on income as I came to learn- hadn’t paid much attention to it up to that point- and not even citizenship just residency.
So maybe that’s one example of where residency has its benefits. It may be the same in other countries for all I know. Most people get the full amount but it depends on how many qualifying years you have been a permanent resident or citizen.
That aside, it is a life saver for more people than you realize and for this last boomer generation especially for women who have no Canada Pension contributions due to being stay at home moms etc. Of course, claw back rules apply but they are not as onerous as they might be.
And to be as fair as I can tolerate, I must say US Social Security seems to pay at a higher rate than our CPP does but maybe their contributions are higher? I don’t know because as you might have noted I don’t pay any attention to US laws etc. I do know a friend of ours is married to a woman who commuted to the USA daily across that river I often refer to, and in addition to her SS payments, he as a spouse gets some too! That amazes me. He has only worked in Canada. She had a green card.
And that’s probably the limit my computer will ever allow me to say something complimentary about the USA. Who knew I had a computer with a Governor on it. You young folks can now google that term, off you go!
@MF
I compare it to having Stockholm Syndrome:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Suspected of being a USP? “Your papers, please”.
@ Canadian Ginny
My reduced CPP/OAS is a great help but it still takes dipping into savings every month in order to get by … and we are very frugal. I hope I won’t rue the day I applied though. I think Home’s main concern is that applying for OAS might trigger IRS scrutiny if this information gets passed along. It’s possible that Service Canada is inadvertantly outing applicants who indicate they lived in the USA for a period of time.
@Canadian Ginny
That would be governor, not Governor.
I’m creeped-out by the weird mental image of a parochial U.S politician-gremlin sitting on your computer.
They’ve invaded Canada too much already.
Ginny you were in guideline of questions asked. Embee states the problem.
Can they change the question and use CRA information.
Asked if I can receive SS, I would answer no. I would do so before a Judge and present evidence that it is impossible for me to receive SS.
They should asked if you have worked 10 years in USA. Then asked for SSN.
I have no idea what my SSN and I do not want to ask.
US SS is going bankrupt (PONZI scheme) whereas Canadian CPP is in much better shape as it makes investment.
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/102714/what-are-differences-between-canada-pension-plans-cpp-and-social-security-benefits.asp
The way it is people who can hide under FATCA, may get exposed when they apply for OAS as USA persons. The various USA Canada tax treaty allowed information exchange. So USA find you are USA person because Service Canada ask them if you are receiving SS. Then SSA tell IRS. IRS then demand information from CRA on that person. Then you may receive letter from IRS.
I think it started in 1995. FATCA is just an enhancement. Look at the title on government website.
“Enhanced Exchange of Information”
http://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/pdf/FATCA-eng.pdf
If you delay OAS you also get a higher amount.
You are right Shovel. You might be surprised by who is monitoring our comments and I am not a proponent of tin foil hats. But I have had experiences and occurrences I would have never imagined a few years ago.
Co- inkidinks?
I can remember when I was in my early teens, a few centuries ago, when my father told me the RCMP had ongoing files collecting information on such people as Tommy Douglas, his colleague and many others not including politicians. And I doubted his accurate words.
Of course years later it was proved true and more. Thus, even though it confuses me at times in terms of keeping people straight, I can understand the need for pseudonyms here.
This is the FATCA world we live in.
As always, practice safe citizenship. Be who you need to be, with all my support. I will get the names sorted out some day. Hopefully when I can meet some of you in person and you come up to me and say I am ” “.
Good grief, I sound like I am back to talking safe sex to my sons. These ongoing intrusions to our heretofore simpler lives, make me sick. But that’s why we come here and support each other and move on towards our litigation days. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I can never find the right words to express my gratitude for that fact: this collective we have become. The wonderful researchers in this group which provide us with so much information we may have never come across, the people who comment on articles published in major newspapers always promoting our cause, the financial supporters who gave more than anyone could expect. All of it. The whole experience.
I am out of words as you may be relieved to know. Other than to say, you all are the best of the best.
Good night.
Forgive again the topic drift but I wanted to share this article with you that shows how my border city has been severely impacted by Big Bully Brother. The area described in this article used to be a beautiful place, close to the University of Windsor in old Sandwich town. An historical area that celebrated so many events including prohibition, the underground railway and also the war of 1812.
You know, the one we won.
Anyway, for your reading pleasure see this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/world/americas/windsor-residents-caught-in-shadow-of-bridge-that-isnt-built-yet.html
Maybe a moderator can make this a hyperlink for me if this doesn’t work.
Meanwhile, concurrently, our federal government has been dallying, I mean moving forward on building a new bridge crossing to keep commerce between our largest trading partner growing. Your taxes are paying for this.
Recently the bridge that will never be built in your grandchildren’s lifetime due to the joys of CAN/USA red tape was named in honour of Gordie Howe who sadly has moved on to cross a longer bridge last week.
I point these things out mainly to recall how it used to be here before everything went crazy. I leave the answers and speculations to those of you with true connections and loyalties to the Stars and Stripes to explain it to me.
There are many border towns across Canada. I would love to hear your stories and collect them in possibly a new thread so we can remember when we were good neighbours and respected each others’ sovereignty and boundaries. But I guess those were the salad days.
@ Canadian Ginny
Ah yes, the salad days. If I could I’d order up a bowl full of “lettuce alone” for the USA.