Duke of Devon says,
Mr. Morneau’s letter deserves its’ own post so it won’t get lost. He seems to get it. It will be interesting to keep on his case about the lack of reciprocity. He is the first Lib. to confirm they won’t help collect anything the IRS claims against a Canadian and I think his distinction that CRA-IRS transfer of information cannot legally be used by the IRS to impose FBAR fines is a new commitment. Not so sure the IRS would respect the distinction.
Here is the first reply that any of have gotten from the Finance Minister. Thanks for sharing it, Cheryl.
April 26, 2016 Reply from The Honourable Bill Morneau, P.C., M.P.
Bubblebstin Edgar Schmidt, who is now retired, lost his case at Federal Court.
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalfeeds/3149/former-doj-lawyer-calls-for-amendments-after-losing-charter-challenge.html
Yes he did, Blaze, but he’s appealing it. He’s in it for the long haul too.
https://chuffed.org/project/charter-examination-appeal
Thanks for the link to that fascinating read, bubblebustin.
I don’t know if you would do any better.
I know that the ATIP requests that I saw come in (back when I wad working in a policy shop) usually requested “briefing notes, memoranda, correspondence” on various topics. Claiming that it is protected because it’s part of advice to the Minister was not usually invoked if itthe document was unclassified.
You can try but before we go through the exercise, let me see if I can reach out to contacts to see if we are likely to get a better response this go-round using govspeak.
Thanks, Calgary.
@Blaze
>>Their response was provided on legal size paper so I have not been able to scan it to post it.
Place the document on a clean table top under well lit conditions, use a camera (there’s usually a good one on your phone) and take a high res photo of it, you now have a scan of the legal sized document that can be resized, scaled up and down, and reduced in size, etc.
“Their response was provided on legal size paper so I have not been able to scan it to post it.”
If your documents won’t be damaged by folding them, fold each piece in half, scan the top half, and scan the bottom half.
Blaze, if you wanted to email me, I consent to the mods giving you my email address.
I’ve talked to a few people and I don’t know how successful it would be, but there are some options.
Interestingly I just got a similar letter today. My letter though similar in much of the verbiage didn’t include the pledge that the Cdn gov’t won’t assist in collecting US tax from Cdn citizens. Perhaps that is because as a US resident I’d be subject to US RBT even without CBT. But I retain my Cdn citizenship.
Perhaps that’s because in my letter to Morneau I expressed concern that my retirement savings, CPP etc would eventually be garnished to pay back taxes and penalties to the U.S. Treasury. If the Liberals were not going to protect my Charter rights, would they at least change laws to allow me to protect my TFSAs and RRSPs etc from garnishment. I guess that’s why he responded specifically to that issue with my letter. At least that indicates my letter was actually read.
@Cheryl
Yep it’s good to have a data point that suggests at least they read the letters. Though I wouldn’t necessarily give them credit for reading too thoroughly. Much of the verbiage in my letter was identical to yours. On this one point re collection there was a difference though.
@Bb (from the “Reed Amendment is a MYTH” thread)
No, I don’t think that you’re being too simplistic in asking about TFSA’s etc. being exempt. As we know, there are many examples of illogicality and hypocrisy with this whole situation of US CBT, FATCA, FBAR etc.
I do not expect to get a 2nd personal reply from him, but some of the points that I will make to him (and that really bother me) are:
i) the Can. gov.’s position that it “respects the right of the US to tax on a basis of citizenship”, conveniently ignoring:
a) that the US imposes unwanted, non-consensual citizenship on many of us
b) that the US does not allow for fair and reasonable renunciation (violating the UDHR 15{2})
[a) would not matter if b) did not exist]
c) that it would not respect Eritrea’s (or likely any other country’s) right to tax Canadians on the basis of
Eritrean (or any other country’s) citizenship
ii) we are constantly being told that the “information exchange” will be conducted with the “safeguards of the Tax Treaty”, when the actual details of these “protections” are never explained. The very act of giving Canadian financial account info. (of Can. citizens living in Canada) to the IRS is a direct violation of the “privacy” that the Can. gov. maintains is being upheld.
iii) the Can. gov. places a higher priority on “protecting the integrity of the US tax system” than upholding the supposed fundamental Charter and privacy rights of its own citizens.
@Mr. A., they justify it in their minds by the intentional destruction of your Canadian Citizenship.
That is the truth and it is cold, it is hard and it is uncomfortable but there comes a time to call it like it is.
Re: won’t help collection of tax debts. The FATCA IGA by providing information (and does this include address etc?) certainly would be considered assistance by pointing the IRS to US persons in Canada with financial facts that might beckon an inquisition of why a corresponding tax return is not with the IRS. All powerful entities can not be assumed to handle “information” in a benevolent manner. Inspite of such “protections” mentioned in the letter the US extraterritorial laws have had and are having a clear detrimental impact on many Canadians. At least this is somewhat acknowledged.
The letter points out respect for US Citizenship based taxation and also another point by the Privacy Commissioner talking about necessary information to protect the integrity of the US tax system. There is no mention of Canadian sovereignty and “a Canadian, is a Canadian, is a Canadian.” It appears that Canadian Government respect for the US tax system and helping protect the integrity of the US tax system overrides obligation to respect and protect Canadian Sovereignty rights and Canadian Citizenship. Should not be!
The Treasurer would have shown more confidence in his position if the comment was “Canada respects the right of the U.S. to tax on this basis ” Canadian Citizens and Permanent Residents resident in Canada. Without such qualification it sounds something like: for Canada to speak out against such taxation would represent Canadian disrespect of and interference into the internal affairs of the US. Canada has full right to speak out against extraterritorial laws impacting Canadian residents on Canadian soil.
Just because the US threatens hefty fines does not mean Canada may not speak out against the imposition of FATCA IGA, Canada may not wait to the last possible moment to provide information and not be among the first in the world to do so, nor does it mean that Canada should continue to provide information after the December 2016 deadline for the US to provide reciprocal information. It should be very clear presently to the Treasurer that no laws exist within America to find out “reciprocal” information – all Canadian person accounts with US financial institutions. Consequently, it is not possible for the US to provide reciprocal information by the end of the year; and by some accounts there will be lots of resistance within the US to the cost on US banks of providing such information.
The letter says the FATCA IGA has no new tax or penalty. True. Yet FATCA has new compliance and 8938 penalty that slips through tax treaty gaps. May I suggest that it is better to point out both the FATCA IGA and Tax Treaty Gaps at the same time in the same letter (the original letter is not indicated here, just the reply letter).
Here is my response to a reply from The Honorable Scott Morrison, Treasurer of Australia, to his statement that in the first instance any issues with CBT on Australian soil should be brought up with the US:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca-and-australia/comment-page-33/#comment-7561948
@Mr. A. I’d add a 4th point. to your very nice list:
iiii) The Canadian government also places a higher priority on “protecting the integrity of the US tax system” than it does on “protecting the integrity of our own Canadian tax system”,
The negative consequences of US CBT on the individual taxpayer are well documented, but allowing the US tax system to operate in Canada is effectively allowing the US government to stake a claim to a portion of Canada’s tax base. None of our politicians seem to understand that.
I agree George. Personally I think we should be on the streets just like in the U.S. in the 60’s or like Idle No More in Canada but we are too soft and too afraid. It doesn’t work without numbers. I believe, however, that our time will have to come. I hope we are not too late.
I admit that when all of this FATCA garbage started I lost my resistor root ways. I left the U.S. In the early 70’s as an anti-U.S. Government/anti-Vietnam War resistor. I came to Canada to become a Canadian citizen and lose my U.S. citizenship and that’s what I did. When I first became aware that I might still be considered American by ANYONE, I was devastated and began to try to get proof that I was not, only to find out that the U.S. and Canada don’t give a damn about the law.
If I had understood then what I understand now; if I had not gotten soft in my resistance, I would have/should have just resisted like Ginny and Gwen right off but I probably will still have to do that because the U.S. and Canadian Governments don’t care about the law or the rights of people.
Cheryl, we are definitely not Muhammad Ali’s. Could we ever re-visit and have that courage?
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/06/05/muhammad-ali-draft-resistors-loss-of-us-citizenship-the-rumble-in-the-jungle-and-a-trip-down-memory-lane-2/
In the simple emotions of shared music:
@Cheryl, in my own country I am seeing the dark side of the brexit debate on the remain side and that is really ripping at me because of the FATCA IGA destruction of your non-US Citizenship.
One former MP actually wrote that “sovereignty is not all that cracked up to be.”
Then we have the argument that its just fine to shut down non-EU migration to the UK because we must have access to the trading bloc. Yep, discrimination is fine if you need to do it for money.
The banksters all warning about brexit, you know the ones…..they all have been indicted by the US Department of Justice, that paid BILLIONS in criminal penalties.
A month ago, I refused to consider me and my family as being collateral damage with the FATCA IGA.
Today, after seeing a very dark side through this other debate, me and my family are either intentional damage or collateral damage but damaged nonetheless. We shall now live accordingly.
The EU and my countrymen WILL throw my family to the wolves to appease the United States to “protect access to the US Market” because of FATCA.
The sole outcome that could be positive FATCA wise is that the bexit debate has changed the thought process of Boris and many top torries and should Boris become PM if Davey is thrown out……the UK may develop a backbone.
BUT if project fear wins and the UK remains……the UK will remain fearful of the US vis a vis FATCA.
@Calgary Thanks for this. It was very neat.
@JC and maz57
You both make excellent points.
@calgary411
True, many of us do not have the courage of Muhammad Ali, but I think that some of you come close, starting with Gwen & Ginny. Enjoyed the video – we all must never give up the fight.
Muhammad Ali reminded all of us…
Prophetic words and, yes, Gwen and Ginny are among those heroes.
It is so instructive to look back at Ali’s life, courage and humanity.