94 thoughts on “Dear Valued Customer, Indicators Found: Your Place of Birth is the United States”
Hopefully, her parents are smart enough to make sure that the baby’s bank account doesn’t get big enough that she ever has to file FBARs! Better yet, they should start saving money in an old-fashioned piggy bank for renunciation fees because those are sure to be even more outrageous in 2034!
In all honesty and without an ounce of sarcasm, I’d say the baby is lucky — forewarned is forearmed. As long as Elle doesn’t make enough money to have to file with IRS and keeps her bank balance low, she’ll be able to renounce at 18 with minimum paperwork. Yeah, she’ll have to cough up the renunciation fee but it’s still a huge advantage over being caught off-guard and having to scramble as a result.
I hope for the opposite. I’d love to see the Fiberals question an 8-month old witness in court.
@Norman Diamond
The Canadian government will protect dual Canadian-Americans from the USG inflicting physical harm, but I very much doubt they will ever protect us from the financial obligations imposed on us by the other country we are citizens of. After all, both nations officially have dominion over us.
I know it’s not going to be a popular opinion on this board, but I’ll say it anyway: I don’t actually have a problem with the CRA sharing information with IRS when it comes to dual citizens, because technically the USG is legally entitled to our data so there’s no real breach of privacy as far as I can see. I think it’s up to us to officially sever ties to the US, so that we are only beholden to Canada and therefore eliminate any conflict of interest.
That’s why I officially renounced this year, and will be filing all the paperwork next year to make the break a clean one. It sucks beyond the telling to have to jump through all the hoops and shell out money for accounting and renunciation fees, but I am taking a stand: I am now solely Canadian. Canada is my home and this is where my loyalties lie, full stop.
@WestCoaster
With or without a CLN, discrimination by birth would carry on anyway.
Westcoaster re: “I know it’s not going to be a popular opinion on this board, but I’ll say it anyway: I don’t actually have a problem with the CRA sharing information with IRS when it comes to dual citizens, because technically the USG is legally entitled to our data so there’s no real breach of privacy as far as I can see. I think it’s up to us to officially sever ties to the US, so that we are only beholden to Canada and therefore eliminate any conflict of interest.”
Wow, what a fucked up, sad thing to say for one slave to say to another.
Translation: Half of your ass is owned by the USA and the half is owned by Canada. This is YOUR problem, not the two governments who own you. It is up to you to pick one master to resolve YOUR problems. Until then, both owners are entitled to your private financial information so that they can tax your ass as they see fit, since they own you.
ooops.. excuse extraneous ‘to say’…still fuming over how someone in our boat, thinks this is OK.
@Westcoaster – “I don’t actually have a problem with the CRA sharing information with IRS when it comes to dual citizens, because technically the USG is legally entitled to our data so there’s no real breach of privacy as far as I can see. I think it’s up to us to officially sever ties to the US, so that we are only beholden to Canada and therefore eliminate any conflict of interest.”
I would agree (in my case substituting HMRC/UK for CRA/Canada) if those of us living outside the UK had been properly informed, right from the get-go, so that we could have made our decisions about citizenship in full knowledge of the pros and cons.
If I’d known there was such a thing as CBT when I left the US back in 1965, I would have renounced long ago, when it was free, and also easy.
That didn’t happen. Instead I first learned of it half a century later, purely by accident, when I tried to open a savings account and found myself being treated as a probable tax evader.
I renounced a.s.a.p. once I heard about CBT. Three months later, I was no longer a US Person. I moved as fast as I possibly could. But there’s no way to backdate renunciation, so the IRS still considers itself entitled to know everything about my finances from 1965-2015.
That’s an unfair situation, in my view. I don’t accept it.
“outside the US” I meant to say – typo – America’s fault for copying its name from the UK – pathetic lack of imagination.
@Westcoaster – “In all honesty and without an ounce of sarcasm, I’d say the baby is lucky — forewarned is forearmed. As long as Elle doesn’t make enough money to have to file with IRS and keeps her bank balance low, she’ll be able to renounce at 18 with minimum paperwork. Yeah, she’ll have to cough up the renunciation fee but it’s still a huge advantage over being caught off-guard and having to scramble as a result.”
That’s a horrible thing to say. So self-centered and thoughtless for the feelings of others!
@iota, re: ” I would agree (in my case substituting HMRC/UK for CRA/Canada) if those of us living outside the UK had been properly informed, right from the get-go, so that we could have made our decisions about citizenship in full knowledge of the pros and cons.”
Knowing that one’s citizenship status incurs certain human rights violations, but nevertheless agreeing to said citizenship status, does not make those human rights violations OK. CBT is a human rights violation whether one agrees to be CBT’d or not. Sending financial data to a country one has no economic connection to so that that country can (and will) punish one with financial penalties for not obeying CBT is also a human rights violation.
@WTF – That’s your opinion, I’m entitled to mine.
As I said, if I’d known about CBT fifty years ago I’d have renounced. Others identify as Americans, value their US citizenship, choose to remain US citizens, and keep filing U tax returns. I wouldn’t dream of lecturing them about their decision to do so. It’s the deal they’ve signed up to knowingly, and that’s not a human rights violation, in my book.
Master,
I agree that if I do not formally and legally renounce my slaveship at the cost of $2,350 that I am indentured to you for life even if I never set foot on, nor have any economic dealings with the plantation again.
Furthermore, since I am slave to two masters, I agree that my other master (where I live) can send you the details of all my financial assets. I accept that this may result in my identity/private financial information being compromised, but that I am without recourse.
I also agree to incur any and all ‘taxation’ and penalty assessments by you (while secretly hoping that my other master that I live with does not decide to actually send you my money).
Sincerely, Your Slave for life cause I don’t have 3K
@iota, agreeing to be violated, doesn’t make the violation a morally acceptable action. That is not my opinion. That just is.
@WTF – as I say, you have your opinion (apparently including the opinion that your opinion is not your opinion) and I have mine. And Americans who want to remain Americans have theirs. Way of the world.
Way of the world is to not respect human rights which apparently are not real, just opinions.
Iota, if your wife agrees to stay your wife even though you beat the crap out of her, does this make it OK for you to beat her? She knows you beat her. She stays. It is her fault, right?
Iota, actually what is even worse, is that your wife tried to escape, but your neighbour told you where she was hiding so that you could find her and beat her some more. Now both you and your neighbour are violating your wife’s human rights.
Similarly, Canada (like your neighbour) is violating our human rights by assisting the US in its violations.
Of course, since human rights are a matter of OPINION, and some think wife beating is OK if the wife agrees, in which case neither you nor your neighour have done anything wrong.
Re: “human rights are a matter of opinion” was a sarcastic comment in case this was not obvious.
My BP is through the roof this AM after the comments above.
What chance do we have if even ‘US persons’ themselves don’t understand that the governments of the countries we are citizens of and call home, are violating our rights as human beings by agreeing that a foreign country (which we may have no economic or social ties to), has the right to know intimate details of our private financial lives which can then use be used to cause severe harm? If we, the afflicted ones, don’t see the fundamental human rights violations by BOTH the USA and the governments of the countries we actually call ‘home’, then how the hell do we expect our fellow citizens, politicians, and judicial systems to see it?
Sorry, WTF, I’m afraid I don’t agree with you.
I’m not violating anybody’s human rights. Also not beating anybody up, or colluding with any beatings.
I’m sorry for everyone who finds themselves entangled in CBT/FATCA and is struggling to escape, or is unable to escape. But it’s not me that’s doing it.
Those who are able to make the choice, are entitled to do so. Those who want to renounce, and are able to renounce, are entitled to renounce. Those who choose to remain citizens, are entitled to do so.
Liberty.
@Duality
“With or without a CLN, discrimination by birth would carry on anyway.”
Not really. Now when the bank (or anyone else) asks me to prove I’m not American, I can.
@WTF?
“Translation: Half of your ass is owned by the USA and the half is owned by Canada. This is YOUR problem, not the two governments who own you. It is up to you to pick one master to resolve YOUR problems. Until then, both owners are entitled to your private financial information so that they can tax your ass as they see fit, since they own you”
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Except I would NEVER equate our legal obligations to slavery. EVER. That does a huge disservice to actual slaves, who unfortunately still exist in this day and age. Also, I firmly believe the country I live in is entitled to tax me — I have no issue with paying Canada taxes, because that money goes towards the infrastructure and services I use as a resident.
That’s not the case with the US in any way, shape or form. However, I never claimed it was fair that the US laws allow for such overreach. And here’s the kicker — I was an accidental American. Neither of my parents citizens or residents of the US, I was born there because my mother made the bad judgment call to visit the States in her third trimester. Canada is not a tax haven and I’m not rich, so I have never owed the IRS a penny but the paperwork is so complicated that I’ve had to pay accountants to prove that. Is that fair? Is that right? No!
All I am saying is that the law is what it is. The $2350 fee is outrageous, as is everything else about this, but this is no way similar to slavery, because we can — and do! — legally sever ties from the US. Which I have.
@iota
“I renounced a.s.a.p. once I heard about CBT. Three months later, I was no longer a US Person. I moved as fast as I possibly could. But there’s no way to backdate renunciation, so the IRS still considers itself entitled to know everything about my finances from 1965-2015.
That’s an unfair situation, in my view. I don’t accept it.”
You obviously did accept it, because you took legal steps to sever ties. I did likewise, because I came to realization that only one nation was entitled to my loyalty and that was the one I considered home.
I have no idea why you thought my comments about Elle were thoughtless. Being American citizen but living abroad is a hardship, but it’s not nearly as bad for kids because they can extricate themselves far more easily than adults blindsided with information later in life.
Given all the publicity around FATCA in recent years, I’m actually shocked that Elle’s parents weren’t aware of the impact their choices would have on their child. The whole reason I first discovered I had filing obligations five years ago was because FATCA was in the news everywhere. Since then the coverage has increased exponentially, plus the USG for years has been informing citizens of their tax obligations during passport renewals, so it’s highly likely that Elle’s American mother learned about all this long before Elle was even conceived.
@Westcoaster – “You obviously did accept it, because you took legal steps to sever ties.”
No. I didn’t and I don’t.
“I did likewise, because I came to realization that only one nation was entitled to my loyalty and that was the one I considered home.”
Apparently our experiences weren’t similar then. The US never had my loyalty.
“Given all the publicity around FATCA in recent years, I’m actually shocked that Elle’s parents weren’t aware of the impact their choices would have on their child. The whole reason I first discovered I had filing obligations five years ago was because FATCA was in the news everywhere. Since then the coverage has increased exponentially, plus the USG for years has been informing citizens of their tax obligations during passport renewals, so it’s highly likely that Elle’s American mother learned about all this long before Elle was even conceived.”
That’s exactly what I’ve heard ignorant people say about all US citizens abroad: that we “must have” known. They think we’re all tax evaders. I’m really surprised to encounter such an attitude here.
@iota
Look, I’ve never had loyalty to the US. I don’t have any relatives who are, or have ever been American. I have never lived in the US. Clearly I should’ve have used a different word from loyalty. Something that just expressed legal obligation, which is the only tie the US has ever had on me.
It’s one thing for adults like us to find out about US CBT later in life. I am not claiming any of us are tax evaders; if anything, the reason this whole situation is so stressful for most of us is because we are law-abiding citizens and this law is all-but-impossible to comply with.
US CBT has been on the books long before we were born, but has only started being enforced within the past decade. There has been a ton of publicity on this matter in recent years, especially abroad, because of the burden on foreign governments (and foreign financial institutions) to comply. While it may be true that most American used to be unaware of their filing obligations, that is no longer the case in this day and age. And that’s especially true of Canada, where FATCA regularly makes the headlines.
It’s highly likely that Elle’s mother has a valid US passport, so the USG would’ve informed her of her filing obligations the last time she renewed her passport. In short, even if she is someone who diligently avoids hearing about current news (no newspapers, no Internet, no listening to radio in the car, no chatting to co-workers around the water cooler), there’s absolutely no way she could claim ignorance.
“It’s highly likely that Elle’s mother has a valid US passport, so the USG would’ve informed her of her filing obligations the last time she renewed her passport. In short, even if she is someone who diligently avoids hearing about current news (no newspapers, no Internet, no listening to radio in the car, no chatting to co-workers around the water cooler), there’s absolutely no way she could claim ignorance.”
Westcoaster, even the IRS acknowledges that people didn’t know. That was exactly the reason they stated for providing the Streamlined Procedures. Even for the “Delinquent FBAR Filing Procedures” (which is not an amnesty programme) the FINCEN filing site offers the option: “Didn’t know I had to file.”
It’s not bad enough that the IRS threatens $10,000 non-wilful penalties. Apparently, you’re not willing to accept that anyone could be non-wilful. Yet there have been so many people who turn up on this site and others, in a state of shock because they’ve learned out of the blue that they “should have” been filing US tax returns. Do you just think we’re all lying? You say you’re not claiming we’re tax evaders, but you don’t believe we didn’t know? If we all knew about CBT, why wouldn’t we all have renounced before it got so difficult and expensive?
I just don’t understand how you can blame this baby’s parents for what the US is doing to their child.
The US certainly never mentioned CBT to me when I renewed my US passport.
There is discrimination and NO liberty for those the US deems citizens but who are minors, for 18 years until they can prove sufficient maturity, and there can be none forever, lifelong, for those deemed legally incompetent (a state which can be caused by a myriad of mental and psychological or intellectual disabilities acquired prenatally, during birth, after birth, and anywhere else along the lifespan, by accidents, disease, injury, etc.). How would you describe the lifelong extraterritorial ownership enforced by a foreign state of those who are never allowed to renounce, yet are to be taxable subjects FOREVER?
Discrimination based on US birth will continue after the CLN – because we will be forced to PROVE that we are NOT something – NOT Americans.
Who else in Canada has to prove that they are NOT citizens of any other country?
Hopefully, her parents are smart enough to make sure that the baby’s bank account doesn’t get big enough that she ever has to file FBARs! Better yet, they should start saving money in an old-fashioned piggy bank for renunciation fees because those are sure to be even more outrageous in 2034!
In all honesty and without an ounce of sarcasm, I’d say the baby is lucky — forewarned is forearmed. As long as Elle doesn’t make enough money to have to file with IRS and keeps her bank balance low, she’ll be able to renounce at 18 with minimum paperwork. Yeah, she’ll have to cough up the renunciation fee but it’s still a huge advantage over being caught off-guard and having to scramble as a result.
I hope for the opposite. I’d love to see the Fiberals question an 8-month old witness in court.
@Norman Diamond
The Canadian government will protect dual Canadian-Americans from the USG inflicting physical harm, but I very much doubt they will ever protect us from the financial obligations imposed on us by the other country we are citizens of. After all, both nations officially have dominion over us.
I know it’s not going to be a popular opinion on this board, but I’ll say it anyway: I don’t actually have a problem with the CRA sharing information with IRS when it comes to dual citizens, because technically the USG is legally entitled to our data so there’s no real breach of privacy as far as I can see. I think it’s up to us to officially sever ties to the US, so that we are only beholden to Canada and therefore eliminate any conflict of interest.
That’s why I officially renounced this year, and will be filing all the paperwork next year to make the break a clean one. It sucks beyond the telling to have to jump through all the hoops and shell out money for accounting and renunciation fees, but I am taking a stand: I am now solely Canadian. Canada is my home and this is where my loyalties lie, full stop.
@WestCoaster
With or without a CLN, discrimination by birth would carry on anyway.
Westcoaster re: “I know it’s not going to be a popular opinion on this board, but I’ll say it anyway: I don’t actually have a problem with the CRA sharing information with IRS when it comes to dual citizens, because technically the USG is legally entitled to our data so there’s no real breach of privacy as far as I can see. I think it’s up to us to officially sever ties to the US, so that we are only beholden to Canada and therefore eliminate any conflict of interest.”
Wow, what a fucked up, sad thing to say for one slave to say to another.
Translation: Half of your ass is owned by the USA and the half is owned by Canada. This is YOUR problem, not the two governments who own you. It is up to you to pick one master to resolve YOUR problems. Until then, both owners are entitled to your private financial information so that they can tax your ass as they see fit, since they own you.
ooops.. excuse extraneous ‘to say’…still fuming over how someone in our boat, thinks this is OK.
@Westcoaster – “I don’t actually have a problem with the CRA sharing information with IRS when it comes to dual citizens, because technically the USG is legally entitled to our data so there’s no real breach of privacy as far as I can see. I think it’s up to us to officially sever ties to the US, so that we are only beholden to Canada and therefore eliminate any conflict of interest.”
I would agree (in my case substituting HMRC/UK for CRA/Canada) if those of us living outside the UK had been properly informed, right from the get-go, so that we could have made our decisions about citizenship in full knowledge of the pros and cons.
If I’d known there was such a thing as CBT when I left the US back in 1965, I would have renounced long ago, when it was free, and also easy.
That didn’t happen. Instead I first learned of it half a century later, purely by accident, when I tried to open a savings account and found myself being treated as a probable tax evader.
I renounced a.s.a.p. once I heard about CBT. Three months later, I was no longer a US Person. I moved as fast as I possibly could. But there’s no way to backdate renunciation, so the IRS still considers itself entitled to know everything about my finances from 1965-2015.
That’s an unfair situation, in my view. I don’t accept it.
“outside the US” I meant to say – typo – America’s fault for copying its name from the UK – pathetic lack of imagination.
@Westcoaster – “In all honesty and without an ounce of sarcasm, I’d say the baby is lucky — forewarned is forearmed. As long as Elle doesn’t make enough money to have to file with IRS and keeps her bank balance low, she’ll be able to renounce at 18 with minimum paperwork. Yeah, she’ll have to cough up the renunciation fee but it’s still a huge advantage over being caught off-guard and having to scramble as a result.”
That’s a horrible thing to say. So self-centered and thoughtless for the feelings of others!
@iota, re: ” I would agree (in my case substituting HMRC/UK for CRA/Canada) if those of us living outside the UK had been properly informed, right from the get-go, so that we could have made our decisions about citizenship in full knowledge of the pros and cons.”
Knowing that one’s citizenship status incurs certain human rights violations, but nevertheless agreeing to said citizenship status, does not make those human rights violations OK. CBT is a human rights violation whether one agrees to be CBT’d or not. Sending financial data to a country one has no economic connection to so that that country can (and will) punish one with financial penalties for not obeying CBT is also a human rights violation.
@WTF – That’s your opinion, I’m entitled to mine.
As I said, if I’d known about CBT fifty years ago I’d have renounced. Others identify as Americans, value their US citizenship, choose to remain US citizens, and keep filing U tax returns. I wouldn’t dream of lecturing them about their decision to do so. It’s the deal they’ve signed up to knowingly, and that’s not a human rights violation, in my book.
Master,
I agree that if I do not formally and legally renounce my slaveship at the cost of $2,350 that I am indentured to you for life even if I never set foot on, nor have any economic dealings with the plantation again.
Furthermore, since I am slave to two masters, I agree that my other master (where I live) can send you the details of all my financial assets. I accept that this may result in my identity/private financial information being compromised, but that I am without recourse.
I also agree to incur any and all ‘taxation’ and penalty assessments by you (while secretly hoping that my other master that I live with does not decide to actually send you my money).
Sincerely, Your Slave for life cause I don’t have 3K
@iota, agreeing to be violated, doesn’t make the violation a morally acceptable action. That is not my opinion. That just is.
@WTF – as I say, you have your opinion (apparently including the opinion that your opinion is not your opinion) and I have mine. And Americans who want to remain Americans have theirs. Way of the world.
Way of the world is to not respect human rights which apparently are not real, just opinions.
Iota, if your wife agrees to stay your wife even though you beat the crap out of her, does this make it OK for you to beat her? She knows you beat her. She stays. It is her fault, right?
Iota, actually what is even worse, is that your wife tried to escape, but your neighbour told you where she was hiding so that you could find her and beat her some more. Now both you and your neighbour are violating your wife’s human rights.
Similarly, Canada (like your neighbour) is violating our human rights by assisting the US in its violations.
Of course, since human rights are a matter of OPINION, and some think wife beating is OK if the wife agrees, in which case neither you nor your neighour have done anything wrong.
Re: “human rights are a matter of opinion” was a sarcastic comment in case this was not obvious.
My BP is through the roof this AM after the comments above.
What chance do we have if even ‘US persons’ themselves don’t understand that the governments of the countries we are citizens of and call home, are violating our rights as human beings by agreeing that a foreign country (which we may have no economic or social ties to), has the right to know intimate details of our private financial lives which can then use be used to cause severe harm? If we, the afflicted ones, don’t see the fundamental human rights violations by BOTH the USA and the governments of the countries we actually call ‘home’, then how the hell do we expect our fellow citizens, politicians, and judicial systems to see it?
Sorry, WTF, I’m afraid I don’t agree with you.
I’m not violating anybody’s human rights. Also not beating anybody up, or colluding with any beatings.
I’m sorry for everyone who finds themselves entangled in CBT/FATCA and is struggling to escape, or is unable to escape. But it’s not me that’s doing it.
Those who are able to make the choice, are entitled to do so. Those who want to renounce, and are able to renounce, are entitled to renounce. Those who choose to remain citizens, are entitled to do so.
Liberty.
@Duality
“With or without a CLN, discrimination by birth would carry on anyway.”
Not really. Now when the bank (or anyone else) asks me to prove I’m not American, I can.
@WTF?
“Translation: Half of your ass is owned by the USA and the half is owned by Canada. This is YOUR problem, not the two governments who own you. It is up to you to pick one master to resolve YOUR problems. Until then, both owners are entitled to your private financial information so that they can tax your ass as they see fit, since they own you”
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Except I would NEVER equate our legal obligations to slavery. EVER. That does a huge disservice to actual slaves, who unfortunately still exist in this day and age. Also, I firmly believe the country I live in is entitled to tax me — I have no issue with paying Canada taxes, because that money goes towards the infrastructure and services I use as a resident.
That’s not the case with the US in any way, shape or form. However, I never claimed it was fair that the US laws allow for such overreach. And here’s the kicker — I was an accidental American. Neither of my parents citizens or residents of the US, I was born there because my mother made the bad judgment call to visit the States in her third trimester. Canada is not a tax haven and I’m not rich, so I have never owed the IRS a penny but the paperwork is so complicated that I’ve had to pay accountants to prove that. Is that fair? Is that right? No!
All I am saying is that the law is what it is. The $2350 fee is outrageous, as is everything else about this, but this is no way similar to slavery, because we can — and do! — legally sever ties from the US. Which I have.
@iota
“I renounced a.s.a.p. once I heard about CBT. Three months later, I was no longer a US Person. I moved as fast as I possibly could. But there’s no way to backdate renunciation, so the IRS still considers itself entitled to know everything about my finances from 1965-2015.
That’s an unfair situation, in my view. I don’t accept it.”
You obviously did accept it, because you took legal steps to sever ties. I did likewise, because I came to realization that only one nation was entitled to my loyalty and that was the one I considered home.
I have no idea why you thought my comments about Elle were thoughtless. Being American citizen but living abroad is a hardship, but it’s not nearly as bad for kids because they can extricate themselves far more easily than adults blindsided with information later in life.
Given all the publicity around FATCA in recent years, I’m actually shocked that Elle’s parents weren’t aware of the impact their choices would have on their child. The whole reason I first discovered I had filing obligations five years ago was because FATCA was in the news everywhere. Since then the coverage has increased exponentially, plus the USG for years has been informing citizens of their tax obligations during passport renewals, so it’s highly likely that Elle’s American mother learned about all this long before Elle was even conceived.
@Westcoaster – “You obviously did accept it, because you took legal steps to sever ties.”
No. I didn’t and I don’t.
“I did likewise, because I came to realization that only one nation was entitled to my loyalty and that was the one I considered home.”
Apparently our experiences weren’t similar then. The US never had my loyalty.
“Given all the publicity around FATCA in recent years, I’m actually shocked that Elle’s parents weren’t aware of the impact their choices would have on their child. The whole reason I first discovered I had filing obligations five years ago was because FATCA was in the news everywhere. Since then the coverage has increased exponentially, plus the USG for years has been informing citizens of their tax obligations during passport renewals, so it’s highly likely that Elle’s American mother learned about all this long before Elle was even conceived.”
That’s exactly what I’ve heard ignorant people say about all US citizens abroad: that we “must have” known. They think we’re all tax evaders. I’m really surprised to encounter such an attitude here.
@iota
Look, I’ve never had loyalty to the US. I don’t have any relatives who are, or have ever been American. I have never lived in the US. Clearly I should’ve have used a different word from loyalty. Something that just expressed legal obligation, which is the only tie the US has ever had on me.
It’s one thing for adults like us to find out about US CBT later in life. I am not claiming any of us are tax evaders; if anything, the reason this whole situation is so stressful for most of us is because we are law-abiding citizens and this law is all-but-impossible to comply with.
US CBT has been on the books long before we were born, but has only started being enforced within the past decade. There has been a ton of publicity on this matter in recent years, especially abroad, because of the burden on foreign governments (and foreign financial institutions) to comply. While it may be true that most American used to be unaware of their filing obligations, that is no longer the case in this day and age. And that’s especially true of Canada, where FATCA regularly makes the headlines.
It’s highly likely that Elle’s mother has a valid US passport, so the USG would’ve informed her of her filing obligations the last time she renewed her passport. In short, even if she is someone who diligently avoids hearing about current news (no newspapers, no Internet, no listening to radio in the car, no chatting to co-workers around the water cooler), there’s absolutely no way she could claim ignorance.
“It’s highly likely that Elle’s mother has a valid US passport, so the USG would’ve informed her of her filing obligations the last time she renewed her passport. In short, even if she is someone who diligently avoids hearing about current news (no newspapers, no Internet, no listening to radio in the car, no chatting to co-workers around the water cooler), there’s absolutely no way she could claim ignorance.”
Westcoaster, even the IRS acknowledges that people didn’t know. That was exactly the reason they stated for providing the Streamlined Procedures. Even for the “Delinquent FBAR Filing Procedures” (which is not an amnesty programme) the FINCEN filing site offers the option: “Didn’t know I had to file.”
It’s not bad enough that the IRS threatens $10,000 non-wilful penalties. Apparently, you’re not willing to accept that anyone could be non-wilful. Yet there have been so many people who turn up on this site and others, in a state of shock because they’ve learned out of the blue that they “should have” been filing US tax returns. Do you just think we’re all lying? You say you’re not claiming we’re tax evaders, but you don’t believe we didn’t know? If we all knew about CBT, why wouldn’t we all have renounced before it got so difficult and expensive?
I just don’t understand how you can blame this baby’s parents for what the US is doing to their child.
The US certainly never mentioned CBT to me when I renewed my US passport.
There is discrimination and NO liberty for those the US deems citizens but who are minors, for 18 years until they can prove sufficient maturity, and there can be none forever, lifelong, for those deemed legally incompetent (a state which can be caused by a myriad of mental and psychological or intellectual disabilities acquired prenatally, during birth, after birth, and anywhere else along the lifespan, by accidents, disease, injury, etc.). How would you describe the lifelong extraterritorial ownership enforced by a foreign state of those who are never allowed to renounce, yet are to be taxable subjects FOREVER?
Discrimination based on US birth will continue after the CLN – because we will be forced to PROVE that we are NOT something – NOT Americans.
Who else in Canada has to prove that they are NOT citizens of any other country?