Lovely Deckard! You’ve captured the true “charm” of TD and the big banks. Makes me glad I left the “comfort” of the big banks behind for my local credit unions.
Might want to tweet about the comfy experience that one of the CBA members is providing to baby Elle, and let her know that sacrificing the personal and financial information, RESP and legal local Canadian savings of baby Elle and all the other CANADIAN citizens, residents, ACCOUNTHOLDERS AND TAXPAYERS in Canada with a US parent or US birthplace will NEVER be acceptable.
to ; https://twitter.com/MauraDrewLytle
Ask her how her advice to Canadian accountholders https://twitter.com/CdnBankers/status/702884683856543748 will help Canadians like baby Elle when the CBA Banksters (and their cousins at the IIAC) have turned over their personal and financial data to the IRS via the CRA – and laid it open to the US Patriot Act.
An addition to my previous comment: Should Baby Elle’s parents decide to close her account at TD and open an account at a credit union instead they still need to be careful. The credit union should be screened as to its FATCA reporting status. Some credit unions will not disclose her as a US Person but others will do so just the same as the big banks..
@PatCanadian
Three of the three credit unions I contacted were reporting US persons to the CRA.
@Marie
It’s a complicated mess. One needs to check and double check the credit unions about their FATCA reporting status. Talking to a manager usually clarifies this. The only credit union I know of which puts their FATCA status clearly on their website is Vancity in BC but one must be a BC resident to join:
” As a result of our Local Client Base classification, Vancity only needs to collect FATCA information and report on member accounts held by non-Canadian residents.”
So if one is a Canadian resident, then you are safe with Vancity accounts and will not be reported. Here is their entire statement on FATCA:
This is exactly the image I had in my head yesterday when I wrote: “You know you’re dealing with some kind of insanity when a baby gets FATCA’d by a bank which obviously does NOT have a comfy green high chair available for its ‘valued customers’.” Now you’ve made it real. Thank you @Deckard1138.
Love the graphic.
I hope that the child’s image was personal, or parental permission was given for it’s use, and it was not just grabbed off the internet. That would be a disturbing image of their own child for a parent to come across. They may not understand the cause.
@the Mom
It’s a stock image.
I have moved the majority of my banking to a subsidiary of van city credit union
before I started the move I spoke to the assistant manager who was totally confused about the “local client base” and reporting status of van city and was 100% sure that van city would report accounts.
after speaking to her manager who spoke to someone in their head office it was confirmed the yes van city was considered “local client base” and would not be reporting accounts to the cra.
when I opened my first account I had a long conversation with the account lady who I have known for almost 20 years. she could not have cared less if I was an American citizen or from mars.
the question about anything related to America never came up.
I actually educated her quite a bit about FATCA as she said there had been little to no discussion about it at the branch I was at. I opened my first account there about 2 1/2 years ago now and have opened a few more since then and it was very easy and comfortable to do so.
unlike having to go into RBC and sign some work related rrsp contributions and them wanting to “update” their client information……I had to lie to sign their forms…..oh well….come find me if you can uncle sam……
Logically speaking, a place of birth is not an objective criterion for the purposes of banking or taxation. Surely no adult was able to choose this whilst in a womb (along with the colour of their skin, their mother’s lifestyle and diet, et al). But an adult can choose where to live and work…
@Duality, logic and justice have no place in all this. As you point out, a birthplace (or parentage) is not a taxable event. And by what powers did a baby magically open an ‘offshore’ account for itself?
And of course, let us not forget that the FINCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network FBAR filing instructions specifically state that minors with ‘foreign’ accounts should do their own annual FBAR filing online.
That is one talented baby eh?
@badger
“FINCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network FBAR filing instructions specifically state that minors with ‘foreign’ accounts should do their own annual FBAR filing online.”
I didn’t know this; this is effectively child abuse, quite shocking. (I am looking at the image above for what could be their punishment…?)
@Duality, it is unbelievable, but true. Only the US FINCEN would criminalize the local legal birthday savings and education and disability accounts of children.
But, as our Canadian politicians keep telling us, it is of paramount and overriding importance that Canadians oppress their own fellow Canadian citizens and resident taxpayers and waste our own CANADIAN tax revenues in order to assist a foreign government – the US, in protecting the ‘integrity’ of its tax system.
“TD CEO: the U.S. Is Our Engine of Growth
by Bloomberg Video 4:50 mins
April 20 — The CEO of Canada’s second-largest bank says with the U.S. business now representing 30% of the overall bank, he expects that economy to be the bank’s engine of growth going forward.”
Maybe TD should be forced to sell its Canadian operation to Canadian owners.
@Duality, here are the FINCEN FBAR instructions I refer to – which according to the source in the story below, have since 2014 been directly reminding mere children to “FILE THEIR OWN – which now MUST BE DONE ONLINE. FINCEN tells us; “Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. If the child cannot sign his or her FBAR, a parent or guardian must electronically sign the child’s FBAR. In item 45 Filer Title enter “Parent/Guardian filing for child””
Since when do we exhort children to use the internet to contact federal agencies directly and share their personal and financial information online? The FINCEN instructions don’t just say ‘minor’, they say ‘CHILD’.
“Child Having Foreign Financial Accounts? File that FBAR and Form 8938
Don’t forget, even children must file the so-called FBAR if it is required!
New FBAR instructions were added on June 11 2014 to emphasize this. The filing requirement for minors is clarified on Page 6 by adding the following text:
Responsibility for Child’s FBAR
Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. If a child cannot file his or her own FBAR for any reason, such as age, the child’s parent, guardian, or other legally responsible person must file it for the child.
Signing the child’s FBAR
If the child cannot sign his or her FBAR, a parent or guardian must electronically sign the child’s FBAR. In item 45 Filer Title enter “Parent/Guardian filing for child”
If certain monetary thresholds are met and the child is required to file a tax return, the child may also be required to file Form 8938 – Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets. This Form is completely separate and distinct from the FBAR. It is not replaced by the FBAR..”…………………
Realistically, with TD bankers having such close relationships with governments, we ordinary people were entirely disposable.
Least we can do is refuse to do business with them whenever we can.
@Badger says “@Duality, here are the FINCEN FBAR instructions I refer to – which according to the source in the story below, have since 2014 been directly reminding mere children to “FILE THEIR OWN – which now MUST BE DONE ONLINE. FINCEN tells us; “Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. If the child cannot sign his or her FBAR, a parent or guardian must electronically sign the child’s FBAR. In item 45 Filer Title enter “Parent/Guardian filing for child””
Since when do we exhort children to use the internet to contact federal agencies directly and share their personal and financial information online? The FINCEN instructions don’t just say ‘minor’, they say ‘CHILD’.”
Uncle Sam is like the “funny” relative we tell our kids to stay away from. More like the creepy great uncle who everyone finds a bit strange and doesn’t let their kids go anywhere near! LOL!
Assuming the 8-month-old can read and write Englawyerish, can she even register for FBAR without an e-mail account? Some internet sites don’t allow children under age 13 to register.
I don’t know who is on the IBS Photoshop team, but that’s AWESOME!
Marie,
It is the author of this post, Deckard1138, whose videographer skills have also so generously been contributed through the time of this site.
The crying babe in their comfortable chair designed for those with *the US taint* is apropos.
Brilliant, Deckard!
Explain what this is? Your getting this message from TD if you xxxx?
@Neill
Here you go:
http://maplesandbox.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TD-Baby-Elle-Letter.pdf
http://maplesandbox.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TD-Baby-Elle-Letter-pg.-2.pdf
http://maplesandbox.ca/2016/baby-elles-fatca-letter/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/04/14/baby-elles-fatca-letter-lynne-swansons-good-work/
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/04/14/so-now-the-cra-is-going-after-infants/
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/04/14/baby-girl-drawn-into-cra-irs-information-sharing-controversy/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/11/26/td-vows-to-make-fatca-a-comfortable-experience-for-impacted-customers/
Deliciously sardonic, Deckard1138.
Lovely Deckard! You’ve captured the true “charm” of TD and the big banks. Makes me glad I left the “comfort” of the big banks behind for my local credit unions.
Love the graphic!
A picture IS worth a thousand words.
Maybe Maura Drew-Lytle, Director, Media Relations and Communications
Canadian Bankers Association would like to renew her assurances that “…we have been and will continue to fight to change the extraterritorial reach of FATCA and lessen the impact it will have on Canadian banks and their customers.”
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/07/16/canadian-bankers-association-maura-drew-lytle-responds-to-the-isaac-brock-society/
Might want to tweet about the comfy experience that one of the CBA members is providing to baby Elle, and let her know that sacrificing the personal and financial information, RESP and legal local Canadian savings of baby Elle and all the other CANADIAN citizens, residents, ACCOUNTHOLDERS AND TAXPAYERS in Canada with a US parent or US birthplace will NEVER be acceptable.
to ;
https://twitter.com/MauraDrewLytle
Ask her how her advice to Canadian accountholders https://twitter.com/CdnBankers/status/702884683856543748 will help Canadians like baby Elle when the CBA Banksters (and their cousins at the IIAC) have turned over their personal and financial data to the IRS via the CRA – and laid it open to the US Patriot Act.
An addition to my previous comment: Should Baby Elle’s parents decide to close her account at TD and open an account at a credit union instead they still need to be careful. The credit union should be screened as to its FATCA reporting status. Some credit unions will not disclose her as a US Person but others will do so just the same as the big banks..
@PatCanadian
Three of the three credit unions I contacted were reporting US persons to the CRA.
@Marie
It’s a complicated mess. One needs to check and double check the credit unions about their FATCA reporting status. Talking to a manager usually clarifies this. The only credit union I know of which puts their FATCA status clearly on their website is Vancity in BC but one must be a BC resident to join:
” As a result of our Local Client Base classification, Vancity only needs to collect FATCA information and report on member accounts held by non-Canadian residents.”
So if one is a Canadian resident, then you are safe with Vancity accounts and will not be reported. Here is their entire statement on FATCA:
https://www.vancity.com/PrivacyAndSecurity/YourPrivacy/FATCA/
This is exactly the image I had in my head yesterday when I wrote: “You know you’re dealing with some kind of insanity when a baby gets FATCA’d by a bank which obviously does NOT have a comfy green high chair available for its ‘valued customers’.” Now you’ve made it real. Thank you @Deckard1138.
Love the graphic.
I hope that the child’s image was personal, or parental permission was given for it’s use, and it was not just grabbed off the internet. That would be a disturbing image of their own child for a parent to come across. They may not understand the cause.
@the Mom
It’s a stock image.
I have moved the majority of my banking to a subsidiary of van city credit union
before I started the move I spoke to the assistant manager who was totally confused about the “local client base” and reporting status of van city and was 100% sure that van city would report accounts.
after speaking to her manager who spoke to someone in their head office it was confirmed the yes van city was considered “local client base” and would not be reporting accounts to the cra.
when I opened my first account I had a long conversation with the account lady who I have known for almost 20 years. she could not have cared less if I was an American citizen or from mars.
the question about anything related to America never came up.
I actually educated her quite a bit about FATCA as she said there had been little to no discussion about it at the branch I was at. I opened my first account there about 2 1/2 years ago now and have opened a few more since then and it was very easy and comfortable to do so.
unlike having to go into RBC and sign some work related rrsp contributions and them wanting to “update” their client information……I had to lie to sign their forms…..oh well….come find me if you can uncle sam……
Logically speaking, a place of birth is not an objective criterion for the purposes of banking or taxation. Surely no adult was able to choose this whilst in a womb (along with the colour of their skin, their mother’s lifestyle and diet, et al). But an adult can choose where to live and work…
@Duality, logic and justice have no place in all this. As you point out, a birthplace (or parentage) is not a taxable event. And by what powers did a baby magically open an ‘offshore’ account for itself?
And of course, let us not forget that the FINCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network FBAR filing instructions specifically state that minors with ‘foreign’ accounts should do their own annual FBAR filing online.
That is one talented baby eh?
@badger
“FINCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network FBAR filing instructions specifically state that minors with ‘foreign’ accounts should do their own annual FBAR filing online.”
I didn’t know this; this is effectively child abuse, quite shocking. (I am looking at the image above for what could be their punishment…?)
@Duality, it is unbelievable, but true. Only the US FINCEN would criminalize the local legal birthday savings and education and disability accounts of children.
But, as our Canadian politicians keep telling us, it is of paramount and overriding importance that Canadians oppress their own fellow Canadian citizens and resident taxpayers and waste our own CANADIAN tax revenues in order to assist a foreign government – the US, in protecting the ‘integrity’ of its tax system.
BTW,
The experience in the US with this bank may not be such a ‘comfy’ one either:
http://nypost.com/2016/04/07/td-banks-penny-arcades-was-probably-stealing-your-kids-change/
http://finance.yahoo.com/video/td-ceo-u-engine-growth-215019678.html
“TD CEO: the U.S. Is Our Engine of Growth
by Bloomberg Video 4:50 mins
April 20 — The CEO of Canada’s second-largest bank says with the U.S. business now representing 30% of the overall bank, he expects that economy to be the bank’s engine of growth going forward.”
Maybe TD should be forced to sell its Canadian operation to Canadian owners.
@Duality, here are the FINCEN FBAR instructions I refer to – which according to the source in the story below, have since 2014 been directly reminding mere children to “FILE THEIR OWN – which now MUST BE DONE ONLINE. FINCEN tells us; “Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. If the child cannot sign his or her FBAR, a parent or guardian must electronically sign the child’s FBAR. In item 45 Filer Title enter “Parent/Guardian filing for child””
Since when do we exhort children to use the internet to contact federal agencies directly and share their personal and financial information online? The FINCEN instructions don’t just say ‘minor’, they say ‘CHILD’.
See;
http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2014/11/24/2452/
‘Children, Taxes and FBAR’s – Not Mere Child’s Play!’
November 24, 2014
“Child Having Foreign Financial Accounts? File that FBAR and Form 8938
Don’t forget, even children must file the so-called FBAR if it is required!
New FBAR instructions were added on June 11 2014 to emphasize this. The filing requirement for minors is clarified on Page 6 by adding the following text:
Responsibility for Child’s FBAR
Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. If a child cannot file his or her own FBAR for any reason, such as age, the child’s parent, guardian, or other legally responsible person must file it for the child.
Signing the child’s FBAR
If the child cannot sign his or her FBAR, a parent or guardian must electronically sign the child’s FBAR. In item 45 Filer Title enter “Parent/Guardian filing for child”
If certain monetary thresholds are met and the child is required to file a tax return, the child may also be required to file Form 8938 – Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets. This Form is completely separate and distinct from the FBAR. It is not replaced by the FBAR..”…………………
@Norman, no Canadians should bank with that ‘foreign’ US bank.
“……..TD has more branches in the United States (1,300) than in Canada (1,150)……”
http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/02/17/how_td_became_north_americas_sixth_largest_bank_roseman.html
And former TD banker Ed Clark is now helping to dispose of our Ontario taxpayer’s provincial assets;
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ed-clark-becomes-kathleen-wynne-s-business-advisor-1.3131969
and,
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/former-td-president-ed-clark-advising-kathleen-wynne/article24990527/
“….Liberal governments in Ontario have a close relationship with TD bankers. Don Drummond, the former chief economist for TD, advised former premier Dalton McGuinty’s government on harmonizing the provincial sales tax with the federal goods and services tax. Later, he was commissioned to do a major report on the province’s finances…”……
Realistically, with TD bankers having such close relationships with governments, we ordinary people were entirely disposable.
Least we can do is refuse to do business with them whenever we can.
@Badger says “@Duality, here are the FINCEN FBAR instructions I refer to – which according to the source in the story below, have since 2014 been directly reminding mere children to “FILE THEIR OWN – which now MUST BE DONE ONLINE. FINCEN tells us; “Generally, a child is responsible for filing his or her own FBAR report. If the child cannot sign his or her FBAR, a parent or guardian must electronically sign the child’s FBAR. In item 45 Filer Title enter “Parent/Guardian filing for child””
Since when do we exhort children to use the internet to contact federal agencies directly and share their personal and financial information online? The FINCEN instructions don’t just say ‘minor’, they say ‘CHILD’.”
Uncle Sam is like the “funny” relative we tell our kids to stay away from. More like the creepy great uncle who everyone finds a bit strange and doesn’t let their kids go anywhere near! LOL!
Assuming the 8-month-old can read and write Englawyerish, can she even register for FBAR without an e-mail account? Some internet sites don’t allow children under age 13 to register.