Note: Updated June 12/15 – Now includes Part 2 – Vatican II
Part 1 – Initial impressions
US joins forces with Holy See in fighting tax fraud http://t.co/GS8GS47it3 – @CNALive clearly delusional – Vatican assists US extortion!
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 11, 2015
This extreme distortion of reality leads to one of two conclusions:
1. The Vatican clearly does NOT understand what FATCA is actually about.
2. The Vatican has moral standards that are equivalent to those of the Obama administration.
Regardless of what you think of the Vatican, it’s unlikely that any person or country could have standards of morality that are equivalent to those demonstrated by the U.S. Government.
Therefore, we must assume that the Vatican signed the agreement out of ignorance. This also provides an opportunity to provide education, where it is sorely needed. I suggest that a Americans abroad should create a “coalition of the willing” to provide the appropriate education. All you need do is read this extraordinary news release from @CNALive and you will see what I mean.
In the first accord of its kind between the U.S. and the Holy See, the two States agreed to share tax information per the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). One high-ranking Vatican official said that with the agreement, the friendships and cooperation between the two has reached “an even higher level.”
“Signing the present agreement is thus a further step in the Holy See’s long-term strategy to ensure and promote legality, transparency and ethical behavior in the economic and financial fields,” said the Holy See’s Secretary for Relations with States, Archbishop Paul Gallagher.
According to a June 10 joint press release, the archbishop spoke of the Holy See’s commitment over the past five years to promote “transparency and legality in the financial sector,” all the while keeping man’s economic and social life in sight.
The prelate made these remarks to U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See, Kenneth F. Hackett, with whom he signed the agreement on Wednesday.
The aim of the measure is to improve international tax compliance and the exchange of tax information between the Holy See and the U.S.
“Every person has in fact the duty to contribute, in charity and justice, to the common good, according to his own abilities and the needs of others, by promoting and assisting the public institutions dedicated to bettering the conditions of human life,” said Archbishop Gallagher.
As part of the agreement, the Holy See will be required to report the fiscal activities of American citizens who have Vatican bank accounts to the U.S. Treasury.
FATCA is a 2010 U.S. Federal law which requires American citizens living abroad to report their assets yearly to the U.S. Treasury department.
“We welcome the Holy See’s commitment to intensifying our cooperation to promote global financial transparency through improving international tax compliance,” said Ambassador Hackett at the signing ceremony.
The. U.S. is the 63rd country to enter into such an agreement with the Holy See.
The agreement comes amid widespread curial reforms being pushed forward by Pope Francis. In 2014, the pontiff called for the establishment of the Secretariat for the Economy, a dicastery which oversees financial activities throughout the Vatican and the Holy See.
Part 2 – Vatican II (Added June 12/15)
US Vatican FATCA IGA is only a public relations exercise to send message that #FATCA is truly the "will of God" http://t.co/CkLyXDnQig
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 12, 2015
The above tweet references my comment about the consequence about the legality of the U.S. Vatican FATCA IGA.
@All
I am going to include the following comment in an update to the post. In my haste, I overlooked an extremely important aspect of this – sometimes the obvious is the hardest to see. Let’s call this addition to this post, which is about the Vatican:
Vatican II
As you are aware, the FATCA legislation provides NO authority for the U.S. Treasury to enter into Intergovernmental Agreements (the IGAs). Professor Allison Christians, Jim Jatras, Congressman Bill Posey and others have repeatedly made this point. What Treasury appears to have done, is to “add on” to or “extend” EXISTING tax treaties, to include what eventually becomes the FATCA IGA.
My understanding has always been that:
If a country doesn’t have a pre-existing tax treaty or tax sharing agreement then no FATCA IGA is possible. This allows Treasury to claim that they are NOT entering into a new treaty without statutory authority, but rather that they are simply extending a pre-existing authority.
Now, with this background, lets compare the Canadian FATCA IGA with the Vatican FATCA IGA.
You will note that in the preamble of the Canada FATCA IGA it says:
Whereas, Article XXVII of the Convention Between the United States and Canada with Respect to Taxes
on Income and on Capital done at Washington on September 26, 1980, as amended by the Protocols done on June 14, 1983, March 28, 1984, March 17, 1995, July 29, 1997, and September 21, 2007 (the “Convention”) authorizes the exchange of information for tax purposes, including on an automatic basis;
You will note that the Vatican FATCA IGA contains no such provision – presumably because the U.S. has no comparable treaty with the Vatican (assuming that I am correct on this).
The effect of there being on comparable pre-existing treaty with the Vatican is that there is absolutely NO U.S. statutory authority for the Vatican FATCA IGA. (If I am wrong in this, then please explain why.)
The Vatican FATCA IGA is a public relations gesture to suggest that FATCA is truly the will of God
Assuming the correctness of this reasoning, then the Vatican FATCA IGA is nothing more than a symbolic measure. It exists only so that the Treasury can claim that even the Pope supports the United States in imposing FATCA on the world. In fact, if the Vatican supports FATCA, then the Obama administration is doing nothing more and nothing less than the work of God. FATCA is God’s will. Those who oppose FATCA are opposing the will of God.
That’s the only significance of this “so called” called agreement with the Vatican which Treasury has entered into with no statutory authority.
USCitizenAbroad – I think you’ve hit on something really significant re the lack of a pre-existing agreement for the Vatican FATCA IGA to be attached to.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/06/11/holy-see-acknowledges-subservience-of-catholic-chruch-to-us-government-signs-fatca-iga/comment-page-2/#comment-6189816
re;
“The effect of there being on comparable pre-existing treaty with the Vatican is that there is absolutely NO U.S. statutory authority for the Vatican FATCA IGA. …….
The Vatican FATCA IGA is a public relations gesture to suggest that FATCA is truly the will of God”
https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/us-joins-forces-with-holy-see-in-fighting-tax-fraud/
Wow, “US Joins Forces With Holy See in Fighting Tax Fraud”!
I know because this article in the *National Catholic Register, America’s most complete Catholic news source* tells me,
Who knew? I must have gotten it all wrong on who leads who.
Regardless of what you think of the Vatican, it’s unlikely that any person or country could have standards of morality that are equivalent to those demonstrated by the U.S. Government.
Well it has nothing to do with what I think of the Vatican: I respect Pope Francis, I respect the Vatican, and I respect Francis’ country of origin: Argentina. Eva Peron would never, ever have signed an IGA.
However it is certainly possible for an individual to achieve a standard of morality at or lower than that of the US government. I give you an example: Stephen Harper. Sorry, but I’m just not willing to give Canada as a people–who are responsible karmically for the man they have put in office, Stephen Harper–credit for being even slightly morally above the level of the US government. Of course, on a global level, the US government is the much greater threat. It has far more power and therefore has the power to bully people on a global basis. Harper, with less power, must limit himself to bullying people locally. But that he does–in spades.
Certainly there are individual Canadians–especially the two plaintiffs, Gwen and Ginny, and those supporting them–who are holding themselves to a much higher standard. But I’m afraid that Canada’s level of morality cannot, on a national scale, be considered even slightly above that of the USA these days. If Canada has attracted fewer bad vibes globally lately it is only because Canada has less power to do evil internationally.
And that is why I am proud to support the present lawsuit by Gwen and Ginny against the Canadian government. Never was there a more defendant more deserving of being sued.
@EmBee
“Selling artificial intelligence and Big Brother surveillance as “trendy” and “cool” in order to fool the general public into adopting technology that will eviscerate their livelihoods and personal privacy.”
It’s called the iPhone — a very, very scary development. Who does not own one these days?… (I don’t, so I suppose I’m a freak?)
I cannot wait to see the Inquisition that will come to fruition to hunt down the “US Personae” at Saint Peter’s. Burnt at the stake in the Piazza for failing to file an FBAR? Time will tell…
@Duality: I believe the Vatican has some torture racks left over from the Spanish inquisition. They might even loan some to the IRS as part of the deal.
@USCitizenAbroad and @ADCS.
This IGA clearly has no standing.
The other IGAs had a fig leaf of standing by linking with a tax treaty.
Someone needs to bring this to the attention of Republicans Overseas so they can comment on it.
To be honest, this IGA is indeed a Blessing because it is the tool to help cut down the other IGA agreements.
@Brockers, let me take the contra opinion on this.
I believe that when it comes time to report, the report will be a NIL report.
Why do I say this?
You and I can not open an account with the Vatican Bank as it exists to serve the Catholic Churches and its related employees.
The Vatican pension plan is excluded.
How many Priests with a US Place of birth overseas do you think are going to have an account with more than $50,000 in it? NONE
They signed it so their would not be withholding on their US investments.
@ Duality
RE: Cell/Smart phones. I’m a freak too — don’t have one. However I think they may have something more insidious in mind (eventually) — like internal ID chips.
“Former DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) director and now Google executive Regina Dugan, who will also be in attendance, gained notoriety in 2013 when she told an audience at All Things D11 Conference that DARPA was working on ingestible ID chips.”
There’s nothing about DARPA that is benign so they weren’t experimenting with making a tastier Idaho potato chip.
Thanks for the correction, WhiteKat. We wouldn’t want those of us who’ve voted in US elections to not feel included in IBS, would we.
@Barbara: Well, if the Spanish Inquisition is to be used as a model by the IRS, then capital punishment would eventually be introduced for CBT/FBAR/FATCA non-compliance. Psychopaths run the IRS, so it would not surprise me…
@Bubblebustin.
No problem. And I agree, all US persons harmed by FATCA and CBT should feel welcome here.
@WhiteKat
Agreed. There seem to be many ‘camps’ participants and lurkers alike can fall into – all dependant on their personal circumstances, and often through no action of their own. The “gotcha” situation the US government has created has left many people having to make a choice on how to proceed. It makes the decision even more important when something as simple as inaction can have the same result as open defiance, or wilful tax evasion (according to the US government).
No one really knows if open defiance or so called “legal” means (voting, US lawsuits, renouncing US citizenship) will have the greatest effect on the outcome. I suspect it will be all of the above. It has to be. Should people comply with laws that are just plain wrong? Some would say yes because for them non-compliance could be more costly than compliance, but would anything have changed that day in Boston if people had just paid the tax? Probably. It would have just taken a little longer and maybe been a lot more violent later. Hopefully the pressure we’re creating is sufficient enough for the US government to see the writing on the wall. Otherwise, it’s going to have to get a lot uglier than it already is.
@Bubblebustin,
I’m not sure why you directed your last comment to me in particular. Is there a point you were trying to make with me?
Just responding to your response to me, WhiteKat.
No problem. I just didn’t understand your response.
Just left this comment at Crux, a web site “Covering all things Catholic” (I also left virtually the same comment at the National Catholic Register but it’s still in moderation and unlikely to see the light of day).
http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/10/vatican-to-share-tax-info-with-us-in-new-transparency-step/
Excellent comment Deckard. I hope it gets out of moderation. The one comment that is there is pro-FATCA.
@Deckard1138
Looks like your comment has not yet been approved in moderation at that Crux site.
IMHO FATCA and CBT are both tools being used as stepping stones to GATCA. The US government is taking on the role of the lead bully on FATCA and CBT because only the US has the financial superpower status to force these things through internationally. However if FATCA isn’t stopped, other countries’ governments–including Canada–will become proactive in their own abuses through the next stage–GATCA.
IMHO that’s why countries like Canada are doing nothing to stop FATCA (apart from our lawsuit). The USA will play the bully initially through FATCA but eventually other nations will get the chance to practice their own abuses through GATCA if FATCA isn’t stopped.
So my comment to the National Catholic Register made it through moderation while the Crux comment still hasn’t. Here’s the NCR version:
https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/us-joins-forces-with-holy-see-in-fighting-tax-fraud/
Thanks, Deckard. Glad your good and needed comment got through to the National Catholic Register article– including pointing out to them the complete *backwardness* of what they are conveying to their readers.
I see that other comments have made it on to the NCR article, including this one from Stephen Kish:
Great letter, except for the part at the very beginning about being “an American (living in Canada).” We really have to stop referring to ourselves as such if we expect fellow Canadians (and anyone for that matter) to have much empathy for our plight as Canadians living in Canada (or Australians living in Australia, etc). I am afraid that if we portray ourselves as Americans first and foremost (who just happen to live in Canada or Australia or UK or wherever), then that is exactly how we should expect to continue to be treated including being forced to be subjected to the laws of the United States of America by the governments of the countries where we actually live and are also citizens of.
I can still remember protesting against the FATCA IGA on Parliament Hill almost 2 years ago, when one older gentleman came over to talk to our group and expressed empathy for us when we presented ourselves as Canadians being harassed by the IRS, and thrown under the bus by the Canadian government. He walked away from our group, only to return an hour or so later, with an article regarding FATCA (I don’t remember which one), and accused us all of being ‘Americans’ and told us “Yankees go home!”
Another article regarding the Vatican signing on to FATCA, with irritating, but catchy phrases like, “tax evaders don’t have a prayer” and “confession is good for the soul” (comments open):
http://www.accountingweb.com/article/fatca-update-tax-evaders-don%E2%80%99t-have-prayer/224863
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/17/us-europe-migrants-pope-idUSKBN0OX0XN20150617
Like banks who are shutting out migrants under the same FATCA to whose enforcement (and reputation) the Vatican has decided to make a small but definite contribution?