This post appeared on the RenounceUSCitizenship blog.
Born in the USA? The Problem of Two Citizenships: http://t.co/OEgUMOg8i1 – Son sues father for registering his U.S. birth abroad with consul
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 24, 2014
Yes, it’s finally begun. We have our first reported case (if true) of a child suing the parent for contaminating him with U.S. citizenship.
Here’s the story …
“Hey, I didn’t choose where I was born. It just kind of happened.”
The problem of unwanted U.S. citizenship is becoming bigger and bigger. The world of Americans abroad includes membership in the worlds most exclusive and most punitive “Tax, Form and Penalty Club” (well if you are obeying the “Membership Rules” and if you can understand the “Membership Rules” to begin with).
Those who don’t want to be members of “Club Penalty” are simply running and hiding. But, in a FATCA world, those with a U.S. birthplace are learning that they:
“Can run, but they can’t hide”.
The word is out:
It’s pretty much impossible to abide by the rules of this exclusive club and have any kind of a life. People are relinquishing U.S. citizenship in droves. The Obama administration has responded by raising the renunciation fee to $2350. The fee increase in likely to create more panic increasing the number of renunciations.
The message to the U.S. Government is clear:
“Mr. Obama, tear down this renunciation fee!” But, his representatives in the State Department have publicly stated that they are “happy to take Mr. ______’s money and fit him into the schedule”.
Mr. Obama and the members of his administration are NOT listening. They are denying the legitimacy of “past relinquishments”. Like the slaves in the South, U.S. citizens who wish to escape are required to buy their freedom.
Yes, we can!!
Some are leaving officially by renouncing or seeking a CLN. Some believe they legitimately left years ago. Some are running and hiding their “USness”. Who wouldn’t? U.S. citizenship abroad is the only citizenship on the planet where you need a personal lawyer by your side every day. U.S. citizenship is the only citizenship in the world that is grounds for divorce. In a FATCA world, U.S. citizenship has become an “accusation”. People are renouncing U.S. citizenship to defend themselves from the accusation of U.S. citizenship.
U.S. citizens abroad are an angry bunch. As one comment said:
“I would think that not forcing thousands of very pissed off people to keep their US passports would be “critical to national security”.
But, the latest news is … found in this post from a law firm in India – “Change you never would have believed” …
You better think long and hard before registering the birth of your child abroad as a U.S. citizen!
First, a lawyer describing the problematic nature of U.S. citizenship
“Taking of the rose tinted glasses will however provide us with clarity regarding the pros and cons of retaining U.S. citizenship. According to Poorvi Chothani the founder of LawQuest, people need to examine the long term impact. In her comments regarding this issue in the Economic Times “This is because once you are a U.S. citizen you have to pay income tax to the U.S. on your global income no matter where you live. Further, if this individual were to give up American citizenship, he or she may be subject to an expatriation tax on worldwide assets levied on wealth valued at a mark-to-market value at the time of expatriation. For instance, a person living in a multi-million dollar house, with no intention of wanting to sell it, might end up paying a tax on this property at the time of expatriation”
Second, describing how a son is suing his father for “attaining U.S. citizenship for him at birth” (presumably registering the birth abroad)
She has recently taken up the case of a high net worth businessman, whose 18 year old boy has sued his father for attaining U.S. citizenship for him at birth. While this is an unusual case it may not be the only such case.
It’s unclear whether the father is a U.S. citizen. This unfortunate situation was described more generally in a second blog post alluding to the problems caused by being born in the U.S.
The word is starting to get out!!
Once again we hear the familiar:
“Hey, I didn’t choose where I was born. It just kind of happened”
But, this time there’s more. Much more.
This time the claim is:
“I never consented to your making me a U.S. citizen. It was at YOUR PARENTAL INITIATIVE that U.S. citizenship – which is a threat to my “well being”- was conferred on me. This is NOT something that I had the capacity to choose at such a young age! I intend to sue you.”
This statement raises a number of interesting issues which include:
1. In the past I have heard people joke about the possibility of suing their parents for registering their birth abroad at a U.S. consulate. Little did the parents know …
We now appear to have one of the first confirmed cases of a child actually suing the parent. The plaintiff and defendant appear to be in India which is a “common law” jurisdiction. What would be the legal basis for the lawsuit? In other words, what principle would the son use to sue his father?
I really don’t know, but having some fun with this (although being a U.S. citizen is NOT funny from the son’s perspective).
Let’s analyze this.
Breach of Contract? It’s certainly not a breach of contract (the son was too young to enter into a contract).
Person was definitely “torted” – It must the be based on theory of tort law. This leaves us with either “negligence” or “strict liability”. Furthermore, the father probably thought that U.S. citizenship would be a “good thing” for his son. There was neither malice on the part of the father, nor negligence. Could anybody really have seen the (“change you can believe in”) coming of the current American administration?
It must rely on a theory of strict liability. This is based on the theory that, making someone a U.S. citizen is an abnormally dangerous activity. Okay, so what then is “an abnormally dangerous activity”? Check it out yourself. If you accept the principle that it’s dangerous to be a U.S. citizen abroad, then it must be “a dangerous activity” to confer U.S. citizenship on a child who is likely to live abroad.
Is registering the birth abroad of a child born to U.S. parents a “strict liability” tort? We will find out!
Why "registration of a U.S. birth abroad" or "transmission of U.S. citizenship" could be a "strict liability" tort http://t.co/3hLwKHwdCK
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 24, 2014
It will certainly be interesting. If successful, this lawsuit is sure to open the “floodgates of litigation”. Once one plaintiff has been successful, it will be “open season” on all parents who registered their children as U.S. citizens.
This will be good news for lawyers. For lawyers and other “Form People”:
“U.S. citizenship is the gift that just keeps on giving.”
We have currently have “Form People” – AKA “Compliance Condors“. We will now have a new kind of “blood sucking” lawyer who makes his living by suing the parents of certain Americans abroad. Instead of calling them “ambulance chasers” we will call them “citizenship chasers”. These “citizenship chasers” will be shopping for “plaintiff friendly jurisdictions” (probably outside the U.S. where U.S. citizenship is so “clearly” a “clear and present danger”). Undoubtedly, the lawyers will be remunerated on a contingent fee basis (the lawyer will seek a percentage of the recovery). Expect to see lawyers hanging around the hospitals (or paying “hospital workers”) for “hot tips” on who is being born in what hospital and what the attitude is toward American citizenship. Some will stand outside U.S. consulates hoping to identify some unsuspecting child who just received the lethal virus of U.S. citizenship. Yes. It’s going to be a “job creation program for lawyers”.
Soon we will see lawyers advertising:
“Were you registered as a U.S. citizen against your will? Has U.S. citizenship destroyed your life?”
If so, we can help. We offer you both “legal” and “emotional counselling” and quick cash!
______________________________________________________________________________
Obviously, most of what this post is an attempt at sarcasm and humor, but I can see it …
2. However, in all seriousness, one must ask the question:
How can the United States of American – that “Great citadel of freedom and justice”:
1. Refuse to let a parent renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of a disabled person or a minor renounce (because neither the disabled person nor the minor have the capacity to understand what they are doing? But,
2. Allow a parent to confer U.S. citizenship (by registering a birth abroad) on a child (when the child doesn’t have the capacity to understand what is being foisted on him)?
Seems like “double think” to me.
And what should the reaction of the parent by to this????
You ingrate! Even though you were born in the U.S. I gave you him. Didn’t you know that children born in the U.S. are no longer even adoptable? Adoption agencies in civilized places like Canada are even warning about the dangers of adopting U.S. born children!!! I have only one question for you:
Have you or have you NOT filed your FBARs?
In order to relinquish US citizenship you have to prove intent. And they reserve the right to disprove that intent in any of the many ways they have at their disposal. However, when they bestow citizenship on the willing or unwilling, they see no need to even consider intent.
Tried to find some info out on this one – way curious as to how this will turn out. Imagine the embarrassment of the US government; citizens renouncing in the thousands and young people desparate enough to litigate against their parents.
What a sorry mess.
It feels like Saturday night… but let me check my calender… Tuesday night in Vancouver… maybe Christmas is coming… my kids are still American… 3 of them. They do not know the issues as they do not have assets that will be taxed by Uncle Sam until they are in their 50’s…unless the new Congress revokes CBT I am out for 10K in the next few years (I doubt if anything will happen). I am so lucky to have married a Canadian who totally refused any financial connection to me. Merry Christmas you Brockers. This is the best experience ever!!
Also Tricia my kids will blame me for branding their butts with the USA. I can take the blame and the cost. But my middle one thinks it is a privilege. So it is different with each kid. Kermit
In regard to point 2:
“2. Allow a parent to confer U.S. citizenship (by registering a birth abroad) on a child (when the child doesn’t have the capacity to understand what is being foisted on him)?”
I think I have read that there is a simplified method of renunciacion for US citizens living in other countries when they reach age of 18. From my observacion almost nobody ever does it here in America Central, because of the benefits of US citizenship for future educacion, work, healthcare etc.
@Friend_Guate
Yes, some have mentioned that rule… yrs ago.. nobody thought twice about having US citizenship or taint… it use to be something people would talk about because it gave them the choice to be in the US or not until Fatca & then we all found out the other dirty secret…. CBT & other deadly things… now its something no one shares. People want to rid themselves of it… we also found out… even with a Green Card… we are fake citizens… all the rights & problems of a citizen without the right to vote, or representation & if there is a situation… we need to turn to our home country’s gov’t… Everything I learned about the US system… I got a crash lesson on my problems from this web site… so please… one & all…. even if its a few dollar… donate what u can… every single dollar counts… time to stand up to the US because of this… we are now 2nd class citizens in the US & our home country
kermitzii,
Knowing what I now know, I absolutely feel it should be up to our children only whether or not they decide the facts that give them a *claim* to US citizenship would or would not be a privilege when they can, with ‘requisite mental capacity’ make that decision and proceed accordingly as an adult, fully aware of all of the benefits as well as consequences of such a *claim*.
@Friend_Guate
Some of the problems are less likely in central American, particularly the poorer countries: these include reporting problems when people have over $10,000 USD in accounts abroad or problems that arise for people living in high-cost countries with major social programs that aren’t covered by U.S. treaties. There are some other pitfalls that might still be a problem in central America for the self-employed or those who own part of a company with non-U.S. citizens. Another thing that might cause difficulty in Latin America generally is all of the privatized pension plans in the region. The IGAs generally exempt financial institutions from reporting things like afores, but the IRS hasn’t been so clear on whether individuals are exempted from lots of complicated and expensive reporting requirements on the plans covered in the IGAs. I suspect that IRS will focus on areas where the pickings are richer. Also, last time I checked, the necessary forms were not available in Spanish. So, I can see the potential advantages of U.S. citizenship for someone from Central America, but there still could be some pitfalls that people might want to be aware of.
Thank god, I didn’t register them as birth abroad…but it’s only a matter of time before those US government vultures start checking hospital records for births abroad and going after them. The scumbags south of the border will stoop to new lows. Mark that as a “vision of the future”.
How sad that someone is suing their father over being registered as a child with the U.S. Yet my DH and I registered our kids, too. They were born here in Canada in the 90’s. We were told at the U.S. Consulate in Halifax that the children would have to choose to retain U.S. citizenship when they became legal adults. We registered them for two simple reasons:
1) Should anything happen to us, their relatives are all Americans. We have no extended family here, and so we designated next-of-kin to raise them just in case.
2) This allowed us flexibility if we decided to return as a family to the U.S.
The kids are now adults (university students actually), so the registration with the U.S. consulate has served its purpose. They’re big enough to look after themselves in Canada if something happened to us. My DH and I are so disgusted with what the U.S. has become, we have no intention of returning there for work (although we do go back to attend weddings, funerals, etc.)
Unlike us, our kids have never gotten U.S. passports nor Social Security Numbers. Therefore, we are counting on the ADCS lawsuit to protect them as Canadian citizens and from ever having to pay the outrageous fee to renounce from U.S. citizenship, which you can only do after first “agreeing” that you have U.S. citizenship, and then agreeing to fill out their forms and FBARS. No thank you.
the IRS will try to find tax returns of children claimed as dependants on their parents’ tax return
@Friend_Guate
I suspect that the U.S. will also be harder on countries that could be considered tax havens and some of these are in central America. Residents and accounts in Belize, Costa Rica, and Panama might of more interest than those in other central American countries. The IRS pays more attention to countries where they think people are hiding their money.
Twenty – five years ago, I walked into the American Embassy in Vancouver to inquire about my children – since I was a dual citizen, my children should become American citizens. At the time, all my friends in Canada believed being a dual citizen was a great benefit, but I had a inkling, Americans could not be trusted,so after i visited the American embassy, I decided, I have no right making these citizenship decisions for my children. We are Canadians not American. Your father and grandparents are Canadian. I am so thankful that I did not make them accidental “Americans” I have renounced my American citizenship – we are done with it. Thank god and Merry Christmas
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Linda Lou,
Merry Christmas to you! You made a wise decision in not registering your children, leaving such an important decision to them to make as adults when they can understand, with ‘requisite mental capacity’, both any benefits and all the consequences / ongoing responsibilities of a US citizenship. It should not be a gift (as in Christmas, wrapped with tinsel) but a well thought-out decision.
I saw my sister at family Christmas dinner just two days ago. She told me she had denounced her US “personhood” (actually citizenship) a few months prior. She told me about the nightmare surprise she got from the IRS once her Swiss bank turned her over like a common criminal. It cost her and her French husband thousands in lawyer fees to break free from FATCA. What really shocked me is that the Swiss bank actually blocked her account until she was compliant.
The actual details of her journey into FATCA hell are too many to list and describe. Her fortunate life vest was her Swiss nationality. She became a dual citizen over 30 years ago. The lawyer told her that unless her French husband wanted to pay taxes, penalties, fines and interest on his bank account to the IRS then her only escape hatch was renouncing, which she promptly did.
Perhaps that is the most hideous aspect of FATCA, i.e. subjecting non- American spouses of American expats to the same punishment as US “persons”.
I went home that night and lay awake thinking about when the FATCA monster was going to eventually knock on my door. So far they haven’t, but I’m pretty sure it’s because my bank account runs mainly on fumes. I’ve been abroad since 1985. I worked as an airplane mechanic and certainly never made big money, just a decent wage. I never filed abroad either. I just figured I was well under the 90 thousand per annum and couldn’t be arsed, as the English love to say. I wasn’t alone in this respect.
I’m sixty-one now and unemployed. I get unemployment benifits but they will run out in five months. My Swiss wife works, ironically for a US multinational company who set up here for “drum roll” tax purposes. We share an account but I told her to ditch fast and open another account in her name only. It’s all crazy and I’m wondering if FATCA will ever end.
What is even crazier is that for a few years now I have been homesick for America. Switzerland is lovely and all that but it’s hugely expensive and unless you’re pulling in big money it’s nearly impossible to ever buy a house here. Any US expats reading this in Switzerland will know what I’m saying. I am also well peed off at the Swiss government for fairly running to sign the FATCA IGA. The garden dwarves in Bern alway say “how high” when Washington shouts jump.
Forgive me folks, these are random thoughts and some venting. I am hugely grateful that this website even exists and that people are fighting. It occured to me that the IRS is much like ISIS. Think about it. ISIS began about fifteen years ago in 1999. The IRS began threatening Americans abroad about the same time. ISIS sat pretty much dormant, then all of a sudden hit hard within the last two years. The IRS, through FATCA, has been hitting hard for about two years now. ISIS wants to destroy Americans where they can find them. The IRS wants to destroy Americans where they can find them. ISIS shows no quarter or compassion for whomever falls into their clutches; nor does the IRS. Finally, ISIS stated goal is a world-wide, merciless religious caliphate. The IRS stated goal is a world-wide, merciless taxation caliphate; and in this respect the American government is well, well ahead of their brothers in spirit, who fly the black flag.
By the way, if any IRS agents are monitering this site as some sort of sick hobby I just want to say FU and go get an honest job, something you might enjoy like skinning live puppies.
My daughter was born in Canada to an accidental American and myself, born in Canada Canadian(first class Canadian).Thank god my wife did not fulfill enough time in the USA to pass this garbage on to my daughter. At least her and I will know what “freedom” means as we are not second class Canadians.
@Expat Eric – thanks for that “random thoughts” rant about FATCA and the IRS. I especially enjoyed that last paragraph!
Oops! I meant to say “How sad …” in my opening statement. How totally sad.
Linda Lou, your intuition–your “inkling” proved correct. You planned well. Good for you!
And Native Canadian, your kid is in a good spot, too–free of of U.S. citizenship, too. Yay!
Canadians should be able by Canadian law to have an extraneous (dual) citizenship and its obligations removed–for the sake of calgary411’s son, our plaintiffs in the lawsuit, and everyone else in Canada who received U.S. nationality as children.
Eric, it is beyond repugnant how the U.S. government treats its dual citizens who live and work in the land of their other citizenship, so that they can’t even get local banking! Then they make it very hard and costly to get rid of that unwanted U.S. citizenship. Your comparison of IRS with ISIS as a world-wide, merciless caliphate is right on.
By the way, I live in New Brunswick where buying a house or a house lot is very affordable, especially if you’re not within city limits, but you can live right outside the limits as we do. (Some people leave other parts of Canada or Europe to move here). Actually, right now the housing is a buyer’s market with a glut of houses on the market. The downside of living here is that a lot of New Brunswickers don’t have family doctors, and if doctors retire, it’s rare for anyone to replace them. The waiting list for a family doctor is 3 years. We are in that situation right now.
a story of three children
the first is born in Boston of US parents who move to France when he is a young child, all of his education and civic identity is French. He becomes a French citizens and uses the expatriating to relinquish US citizenship.
the second child is born in Paris of USC’s as above his benefits come from France. He joins the French military becomes a highly decorated officer and gets elected to the French national assembly. Because he was born with dual-citizenship he cannot use any of the expatriating act used by the first child and must pay $2350 to renounce and file US taxes and financial reports for the last five years
the third child also born in Paris of French citizens who move to the US when he is four years old all of his life experiences and education through university are in the US. Neither he or his parents become USC.
He takes a job in China shortly after graduation and leaves the US with no tax liabilities of any kind
Is there any fairness or logic in the US tax or citizenship laws in a global economy^
@patricia
2nd child: may have lost his USC label when he joined the military… not sure… others here would know
3rd child: unless he formally gives up his green card… he is on the hook for whatever he had prior to leaving the US… if he keeps the green card… he is liable for everything he makes… also… he labelled himself when he went to China… when he opens an account… he is required to show a passport & the paperwork he got from China… which I think… has his US address…
Patricia’s “third child” explains that a child who came and was educated in the U.S. from K-12 plus university but never held a job in the U.S. (and never applied for a green card as it isn’t needed to receive an education) is free to work abroad (e.g. China) with no IRS tax obligations. This child never acquired U.S. citizenship for all the years the child was in the U.S. This is in sharp contrast to a child who was born within the U.S. who, even if that child left the country at age one week would be stuck with U.S. citizenship and IRS responsibilities for a lifetime or forced to pay $2350 and the money to complete 5 years of filing tax returns with the U.S. to get out of it.
If the U.S. had sensible laws, the mayor of London would not be obliged to the U.S. for taxes merely because he was born in the U.S. either, that by virtue of his being mayor of a city in another country would be sufficient grounds to expatriate. On the other hand, it seems anyone who signs up with ISIS or Al Qaeda loses U.S. citizenship for free!
@patricia, second child could certainly make a case under both military and government expatriating acts for a relinquishment despite being a dual citizen.
@Jan, same could be done by dear Mr. Boris, but despite saying he would renounce back in 2006 I think it was he stlll hasn’t done it. Evidently, “it’s very difficult to give up you know.”
Johnson’s response: “I’m — no, is the answer. I think, it’s absolutely outrageous. Why should I? I think, you know, I’m not a — I, you know, I haven’t lived in the United States for, you know, well, since I was 5 years old.”
Page then proceeded to ask Johnson why he continued to carry a U.S. passport. The London mayor replied that “it’s very difficult to give up.”
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/21/365690481/london-mayor-boris-johnson-owes-irs-money-wont-pay
No, it isn’t. Not if you REALLY want to Boris. Don’t moan about being asked to pay your taxes when you’re benefitting from American citizenship by travelling easily to the States on your American passport.
Boris of course can easily travel to the US on his UK passport under Visa Waiver BUT FOR his US place of birth which will result in US Immigration questioning him as to why he is not using a US passport….