Strong language from the Globe and Mail’s Barrie McKenna:
It’s the first bit of goods news in a while for a large group of Canadians who until now have felt targeted by their country of birth and abandoned by their country of choice.
Strong language from the Globe and Mail’s Barrie McKenna:
It’s the first bit of goods news in a while for a large group of Canadians who until now have felt targeted by their country of birth and abandoned by their country of choice.
US_Person_Foreigner,
nabbed, I think, is less likely than simply being noted and denied entry. What they are up to is not the sort of thing that they want splashed in a headline or shared on social media. Terrorizing people via threatening letters, snatched/closed accounts and exile is more their style. But one never knows. This is why it is important to be a citizen of the country you actually live in and why it’s better still if you can be only a citizen of the country you live in. jmo.
One can’t even rely on the IRS instructions and FAQs completely. They don’t have force of law. They never clarified all the uncertainties in Streamlined – which were obvious and which existed since they first instituted it, and delayed issuing even their sketchy instructions until the day before the first day it was to be in force – which was AFTER the deadline for that year’s FBAR. Thus insuring one more year of FBAR lateness for those who were waiting to see what they were supposed to do and who it would apply to. They are obviously doing the same thing this year – since the FBAR/nowForm114 deadline is only 20 days away
Some who believed the IRS Shulman’s threats and coercive demands entered OVDI. Those who went into OVDI, and applied to be considered under Streamlined instead are still there in limbo. The IRS refuses to report anything about Streamlined – how many entered it, how many were resolved, in what period of time, and the outcomes re ‘risk levels’, penalties, etc. And what of those who entered Streamlined, or applied to it, but who might have been better off under whatever this new thing is?
They haven’t bothered to lift a finger to clarify any of the questions and uncertainties that already have been raised by filers and US tax professionals. The instructions for Form 8854 are still full of mysteries. The least they could do if they want true and accurate ‘compliance’ is to make it comprehensible.
But they don’t. That has nothing to do with numbers of staff to process forms. That has to do with lack of motivation and lack of any care about the effects of how they use their power and what it does to ordinary people.
They haven’t increased services to expats, while demanding that 6-7 million abroad comply. They cancelled in person IRS services at the consulates/Embassy in Canada due to budget cuts, while forcing FATCA on us via extortion. They have even cut in person walk in services INSIDE the US to seniors and low income filers.
They simply can’t be bothered, because they can raise revenue on penalties, because they want to onus and burden to be all on filers and expats, and because there are no real repercussions for them.
Why would expats believe anything they say now or ever?
I hope the changes help some who may benefit, but watch out for the inevitable pitfalls and sandtraps.
The US and IRS doesn’t change its spots. It has no culture of wanting to, no motivation to try, no values to uphold, no true accountability to make the requisite changes.
Who would choose to remain in thrall to that dangerous capricious power if they had choices and options not to?
I think many more of us will see this more clearly!
Permanent residents in Canada or any other country, unless their choice is to remain US and plan to one day return to the there to live, might view as their best option for security and simplicity making a commitment to the country where they reside by applying for its citizenship — as they live and work in that country and benefit from it.
Retaining US citizenship or registering our children with the US now means we understand the yearly requirements for that choice.
@ badger
“The least they could do if they want true and accurate ‘compliance’ is to make it comprehensible.”
That’s perfect! Everything about this so complex and unclear. But how will the compliance industry make all its money off us poor schmucks if they make it simple and clear?!
I am curious what other Brockers think of this possibility suggested in the comment below. Personally, I can see this happening. It would be a heck of a lot easier than asking people where they were born, and no one would even need to know that they were being targeted. Think of all the blissfully ignorant souls who STILL do not know about FATCA, or even consider themselves to be ‘Americans’ who might not find out about any of this until AFTER they get a penalty notice in the mail by the IRS.
Someone calling themselves John McCain wrote this comment at Mckenna’s article:
“Your data will be picked up shortly as the CRA will ask the Cdn passport office to provide names of all Canadians who listed the USA as their place of birth. These names will then be sent to the big Canadian banks to look for accounts. If a match is found the CRA will forward your name and account info to the IRS.”
Very possible/probable, whitekat. A very easy and reliable way for Canada to support the “FATCA Hunt for US Persons in Canada” after Royal Assent of Bill C-31.
Not a chance. They haven’t the need, the interest, the capability, the manpower, the time, or the money.
@Calgary411 and KalC,
Thanks for both your different perspectives. I wonder who JohnMcCain is and how he came to this opinion which would mean significantly more, if say for example he worked in IT for the CRA, or was part of a FATCA Compliance team at a big bank.
More than likely he is just an average Joe caught up in this who is speculating.
@KalC @whitekat
I agree with Kalc. I work in IT for a municipality and it takes time, resources and bugets to do that kind of work. There is also coordination with the passport office and I’m sure there are laws restricting what they can send out, including to CRA. Then the CRA would have to coordinate with the IRS so that they can receive the info. It’s all time, money and manpower. They would have to have some benefit to do that and I haven’t heard of any financial sanctions being based on that. Yet.
@WhiteKat
John McCain was making sense up until that point. Seems rather far-fetched that the banks wouldn’t follow the path of least resistance and do more than the minimum that’s required of them to ferret out USP’s. He also said that tax compliant renunciants aren’t counted by what I assume is the federal register, which by many accounts here is not true.
Our passport info. is held by the Dept. of Citizenship & Immigration. The info. is protected by Canada’s Privacy Act. There is nothing in the IGA about this type of activity that I am aware of. I too wonder what prompted John McCain to make such a statement.
I have a hard time seeing this happening but the way the government has been violating our laws with the IGA it’s easy for our minds to run, fueled by fear. Thanks for the reassurance KalC & Kathy.
KalC, the IRS can subcontract the scanning of Canadian passports for US birthplaces to the NSA for practically nothing, which probably has that database already stored on their computers.
Speaking as someone who has dealt with CIC a lot if late – really doubt it. They can barely process PR/citizenship apps is a timely manner. We should be so lucky to have them ID USCs for the IRS. It would take decades.
CRA is only a forwarding agency for FATCA data, the banks are the investigators. CRA has no mandate to track down birthplaces of taxpayers, therefore CRA really doesn’t care where you are born.
For gawd sake, you have to check a box on your CDN tax return to give them permission to send your name and address to Elections Canada for the voters’ list. Canadian government departments and agencies don’t share data like you would think they do.
The Mom, it doesn’t seem plausible and even in the US, the sharing of data between agencies is difficult – though a bit less so now than before the Patriot Act.
Anyway, there is nothing in the IGA that seems to agree to anything like that. If there were, we’d have heard about it and the opposition parties would have brought it up for sure b/c it goes way beyond anything Canada might be obligated to do on behalf of a foreign govt.
The Commissioner (side by side with Taxpayer Advocate Nina Olson) issued a statement about a taxpayers’ bill of rights. He had better mean what he says about looking at long-term residents abroad, because their situation right now, especially considering FATCA, with respect to those “rights” is a joke.
10 Rights
The Taxpayer Bill of Rights include:
• the right to be informed,
• the right to quality service,
• the right to pay no more than the correct amount of tax,
• the right to challenge the IRS’s position and be heard,
• the right to appeal an IRS decision in an independent forum,
• the right to finality,
• the right to privacy,
• the right to confidentiality,
• the right to retain representation, and
• the right to a fair and just tax system.