The Windsor Star objects to the Harper government’s FATCA agreement with the United States. Here is the money quote showing how the Tory government actually admits to capitulation:
In fact, when the Tax Compliance Act first surfaced just over two years ago, federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty was one of the strongest critics, pointing out that the proposal “has far-reaching extraterritorial implications. It would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.”
What happened to “never surrender”?
The Star’s view: Ottawa shouldn’t be in bed with the IRS
Facebook comments are welcome at the Windsor Star.
^this.
Ottawa’s in bed with the IRS, but Canadians are getting screwed.
send these links to every American person you know. I have sent them to Jeffrey Simpson, Margaret Wente, Carol Goar, May David Miller, and Elizabeth May.
Where did they get this:
“And the IRS has backed off threats to impose onerous financial penalties on any American citizens who fail to file an income tax return to the U.S. government.”
@serfingUSA
Yes- my question exactly. Whats that all about? No penalties????? Is that TRUE?
Yes, serfingUSA, where?
Is it being said to lure USP’s into making those still toxic investments that the banks will tell us are safe under the IGA? I thought it was an odd concession for the US to make – to allow RDSP’s, etc to not require reporting, but now I realize that these carve-outs bring the potential for more tax revenue for the US, as they still remain taxable for USP’s! This is one gift horse that USP’s in Canada should be looking in the mouth.
@serfingUSA
Yes- my question exactly. Whats that all about? No penalties????? Is that TRUE? What, no 27.5% or 50% or 300%? No 10000$ per missed FBAR? Did the agreement say that?
no, says nothing about this, one can read the agreement easily.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/pdf/FATCA-eng.pdf
http://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/notices/fatca-eng.asp
the US cannot collect or impose penalties while you are in Canada, but as the integration of DHS and US Treasury databases proceed, the US will be able to detain and incarcerate those foolish enough to cross the border.
I agree, that is the issue.Border crossing… I do not want to be the 1st one they decide to make an example of.
@Polly
Perhaps it’s in reference to the fact that under the tax treaty Canada states that it will not collect US owed tax and penalties against Canadians?
It doesn’t mean that the US won’t levy them however!
Their reporting makes it seem like it comes from the IGA, but I bet they’re referring to the streamlined program.
This should be of interest to many Brockers. The IRS is sending demand letters to accidentals:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishment/comment-page-32/#comment-1077853
I think its time we start calling them the External Revenue Service. I will not be paying for fincial mistakes made by a foreign government.
I left a comment.
And I agree that this is a border crossing and possible detainment issue, which is why we should be starting to emphasize that banks are going to deciding who is and isn’t a USP and the dragnet nature of FATCA which can scoop up anyone not just those with USC.
That and the money angle. FATCA is going to cost all Canadians in fees and taxes and I doubt that even those Canadians who believe that Americans are scammers want higher bank fees.
Why isn’t the NDP using the bank fees angle as that is one of their pet issues anyway?
I’ve followed the link, and David Zimmerly’s commentary caught my eye the most. Especially the final bit.
“You know, most of us, in our heart of hearts, had never completely abandoned America. But now, it is painfully clear that America has completely abandoned us. Now, unfortunately, so has Canada.”
I’m going to have to completely reevaluate my own understanding of the world, and how to deal with it. As it is, I’m stuck with a dilemma.
I want to be rid of US citizenship, but I don’t want any part of a country that would sell out its own duals like this. Especially those with US personhood that may not ever be able to shake away that taint without great difficulty and economic privation, or be completely impossible to with some duals, like Calgary411’s son.
Honestly, in my view, as much as the US are bastards for bringing FATCA to the world, among other things, the Canadian government has sunk even lower than that simply by capitulating without a fight, and given Justin Trudeau’s attitude over this issue, I’ve pretty much concluded that the Liberals would’ve done the same thing.
Maybe in 2015, provided the Conservatives are even tossed out of power, the next government will at least make moves to undo at least some of the damage that’s been done. However, will it truly stand on guard for it’s own? At this point, I won’t believe it until I actually see it.
Meanwhile, if I can’t count on Canada to do what is right, then I guess my last option to consider will be Republicans Overseas, and I’m not going to like that. Because, if I have to work with a system that I know is broken, and work with people with ideologies alien to my own, in order to stand against an injustice perpetrated by a party that I once would’ve stood with, simply because the government here doesn’t have the spine to do the right thing…..then I’ll have to acknowledge to myself that I’m just not ready to be a former US citizen.
You know what? F— it! I’m going to give Republicans Overseas a shot. If I can use my US personhood for something good, then maybe that’s what I need to do.
mjh,
Thanks for sharing your thought processes. I’m sure it helps others try to figure out their own thoughts on this now that the Government of Canada shows it is not standing up for ALL in this country.
By commenting here, you are helping many readers, some of whom we’ll never see or hear from.
@calgary411
Well, I guess it’s best that I know the truth now before I make such serious and irrevocable choices.
After all, if Canada is unwilling to stand up for ALL Canadians, then what is the value in even being Canadian? For me, I now see no value, and yet these Conservatives have the gall to make me wait another year so that I understand what ‘citizenship’ means?
If I was 100% Canadian, I would be very troubled with my government right now, and even start to question my loyalty to it.
If I was a dual US/Canadian citizen, I would really be feeling stuck, and abandoned by both governments now.
However, since I am a US citizen, and currently owe no allegiance to Canada, I still have at least some limited power to affect the implementation of FATCA by joining up with Republicans Overseas, and re-involving myself in the US political process. Not that I believe that I can really do much, but, whether or not I was a dual, this option is really the ONLY option that exists at this point.
I’m also well aware that, if there was anything ‘joint’ in the financial affairs of both my wife and I, she will be thrown under the bus with the duals, and, since she’s 100% Canadian, she will have NO recourse from anyone. This is another story that needs to be said out loud.
@mjh49783 says
*I am a US citizen… some limited power to affect the implementation of FATCA*
U are in a better position then GC holders. As a legal guest.. we have no say what so ever. My own country threw us under the bus… then is proceeding to back it up a few times to make sure they have better traction. People use to be proud to hold US citizenship or a GC. But now its something u have to hid as best as u can.
A Dual I knew was so proud of the US passport until they used it overseas… then got rid of it quickly & got back their old passport after telling us.. Americans are really hated. Here is the reason… Bullies, thinks US is the centre of the universe, and their laws, opinions, policies is the word of god & everyone has to obey cause they have spoken.
mjh49783 wrote:
“If I was 100% Canadian, I would be very troubled with my government right now, and even start to question my loyalty to it.”
In my e-mail to all Conservative MPs I wrote:
“This government has shown that it places no value on my contributions and my loyalty to this country. It has shown that its “paramount allegiance” is to the banking industry and to the USA but NOT to the people of Canada. It makes me wonder why I ever gave my “paramount allegiance” to Canada.”
Of course, what percentage of me is Canadian I really don’t know anymore. There was a time when I would have, instantly, without any doubt whatsoever, said I was 100% Canadian. I am certain I am not “dual CND/USA” but nevertheless I am a hybrid of some sort. Guess I’m a Canadian with a US terminator gene spliced in — a US GMO so to speak (Government Modified Outlander). 🙁
@US_Person_Foreigner
Anybody and everybody here knows that I strongly disapprove of the US government, and that FATCA is basically a bunch of shit that the world doesn’t need.
However, what do you expect me to do when, in the face of the bully such as the US government, when Canada just capitulates without a fight, and throws all Canadians with US connections under the fucking bus? This pathetic Harper government would gleefully toss my wife under the bus if we simply had joint accounts, and she is 100% Canadian! What is the excuse for this? She is so distraught right now at her government that now she wants out, and I don’t know how to calm her down.
You see, by separating our accounts, and filing ‘married filing separately’ on my tax forms, I can protect her from the IRS. Unfortunately, what I can’t do is protect her from her own government. And here’s the thing. If the government here was truly aiming to be just and fair to its own people, then why didn’t it make a stand for them when it mattered?
Had Canada made that stand, I would’ve stood with Canada. Instead, Canada chose not to do so. Instead, Canada chose to shit on some of its own people. Therefore, I cannot stand with Canada.
Yes, this is the same government that shits on its own people, yet thinks it can teach me the value of citizenship. Pffft. As it currently stands, it is wholly unworthy of my allegiance to it. What’s saddest of all is that I know that Canada is better than this, or at least, that’s what I thought. Once.
Far as my wife and I are concerned, The Harper Government can go fuck itself.
@mjh49783
I agree with u totally. They threw all with the US taint under the bus. I never thought this kind of crap would happen… They could have stalled this crap or just say…screw u. But this gut less gov’t just bent over & took it. I am my parent’s caretaker so to make everything easier a few yrs ago.. we jointed everything & I help take care of stuff… I can’t just remove myself cause at this point of my parent’s life… parent can’t deal with it. Because of this.. I got my crap & his crap to figure out. I tell him about this & he doesn’t believe me. I speak to others who have GC’s that are in the states… they all think I am full of it cause they said & I quote…. what business is it to the US… I am not a citizen. I only learned about this a few months ago… I had no clues what so ever that I was doing anything wrong. US has a cache of immigrants that didn’t know about this in the states who could lose all they saved & get kicked out of the states on top of that. I was happy to find this web site cause the stress of this is terrible as u know…. don’t know what to do or who to turn to. Don’t get me started on those thieving people who swear if u pay them your life savings they will save u… Bunch of lying vultures…
@US_Person_Foreigner,
Understand your situation – responsible for other family member’s accounts as well. In earlier years, I would have been doing the same for an elderly person with dementia.
My advice to you is; don’t panic and rush into anything suddenly and narrow your options. It takes informed deliberation to identify one’s available options and to choose a path. I know that is easy to say, and I know that there are many complexities obscuring the way, and often no clear way forward.
If you happen to be within travel distance of the locations listed, you might want attend one of these IBS information sessions, http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/14/solving-the-problems-of-u-s-citizenship-information-sessions/ that would be helpful, and read and read as much as possible here at IBS and also at Maple Sandbox http://maplesandbox.ca/ and here http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/renounce-us-citizenship/resources-u-s-persons-abroad/ . There are also archives of resources listed here http://usxcanada.wordpress.com/start-here/ that cover a historical timeline of media articles and a blog of one of the IBS contributors http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/p/the-diaspora-tax-war-of-2012.html . Apologies in advance to others at IBS with blogs if I’ve left anyone out.
@US_Person_Foreigner
From where I stand now, there will come a point to where my wife will be sick enough to need me as power of attorney in her affairs. However, in the event this happens, her financial information will become exposed to the IRS because of me. That is a certainty. Short of divorce, a cure for her MS, or her death, I will not be able to shelter her from the IRS forever, and the Government of Canada will not stop this intrusion to protect one of their own.
If the Government of Canada will not protect her in that circumstance, in spite of her being 100% Canadian, it may come to where we’ll have no choice but to relocate ourselves to the USA, instead. Indeed, maybe she’ll need protection from the Canadian government?
Sure, these problems could be solved by my renouncing US citizenship, and as a PR, I have no expectation of Canada standing on guard for me. That is fine. However, if Canada won’t stand on guard for my Canadian wife either now, or in the future, then why should I renounce for Canada?
@badger says
Thank u for your advice. That is what I have been trying to do… there is just so much stuff out there… I look at it this way… I am already screwed so I might as well take my time & digest what I can. Each person has a different situation & there is no one size fit all solution. At first I didn’t want to become visible on this board but then I realize… maybe someone can see… they are not alone… that has helped me greatly from this web site
We thought that having a resident card was not a big deal… We got them in other countries with no big issues. Pay the tax u owe for stuff there… go on with your life. I am canadian & was always encouraged to spread our wings & go travel…. we pay what we owed in canada for what we made in canada… that is more then fair. We paid for what we made in other countries there… again…more then fair. Well.. its totally complicated to try to unravel this ball of crap because of the US noose because in each place… we had a life there. At first panic & terror…. then the calm sets in.. then the anger.. At this point… I am more then pissed. At this stage of life… we all should be looking forward to traveling more but now we are worried if we will be able to live on what little we shall have left. Now I won’t shut the heck up…lol.
So again… many thanks to all of u for helping me see… we are not alone & there will be light at the end of the tunnel… It maybe my house… cause I may need the insurance money from the fire…lol