There have been recent spat of news coverage of FATCA in New Zealand media after a long drought!
It is coming on the back of the Select Committee consideration of FATCA IGA implementation legislation buried in a “Remedial Matters” bill. This has been blogged about here with analysis, and here with a plea for comments. The comment submission process closes tonight.
The media coverage started at Wellington Dom Post by Journalist Ben Heather of ben.heather@dompost.co.nz
It was reported on a NewZealand Stuff report, Move to Alter Privacy Laws to help US and has generated 176 comments so far.
There then followed Radio National coverage, a close parallel to CBC News and there are several audio links.
FATCA Top Story on the Radio National website
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/235129/government-has-‘no-choice’-over-privacy-info
It was the first story on 8pm news last night:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/radionz/programmes/news-bulletin/audio/2584610/radio-new-zealand-news
There was a segment on the Afternoon panel:
(Note: Segment starts at 08:10. FCC lawyer from PWC gives the party line. As Osgood says, they still seem to think it is about Americans living here.)
Also there was further discussion with Select Committee members…
Interview with David Parker:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2584601/labour-wants-us-to-hand-over-nzers%27-tax-details
Another clip with quote from David Clark, also on Select Committee:
Now we wait to see if the NZHerald in Auckland, the nations largest newspaper, picks up the story and expands on it. I have written both the News Desk and the Editor asking for public coverage.
Factors that helped with awareness is the tireless efforts of @Osgood and the support we have received from James Jatras with this posting about the notice being sent to Ambassador Mike Moore about RNC repeal efforts.
New Zealand Ambassador Alerted to Repeal FATCA Movement, Others to Follow
In the RepealFATCA.com posting is included the text of Solomon Yue’s message to Ambassador Moore. Needless to say, he has received several tweets about it from me.
Also, today, just out, is this press release by CF&P
CF&P Urges New Zealand to Reject FATCA Compliance Legislation
(Washington, D.C., Tuesday, February 4, 2014) The Center for Freedom and Prosperity submitted testimony in response to open solicitations from the Parliament of New Zealand regarding tax legislation to implement compliance with the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). Authored by CF&P Director of Government Affairs, Brian Garst, the testimony warned that appeasement of U.S. demands is the wrong approach, suggesting instead that New Zealand should join in efforts to repeal FATCA.
Link to Testimony: http://freedomandprosperity.org/2014/testimony-and-speeches/testimony-to-parliament-of-new-zealand-on-fatca/
So, it has been a busy time working the FATCA awareness side of the equation and it is gratifying to see all this attention that frankly we have Osgood’s efforts to thank for.
Further contact information:
Osgood just sent these other email address for those who might want to communicate directly to Radio National…
afternoons@radionz.co.nz
morningreport@radionz.co.nz
news@radionz.co.nz (a generic news email address)
James Jatras has written to Ben, the journalist that broke the story originally at the Dom Post and got indications of interest in an interview in the future, which would be good.
A couple observations James made to Ben about the Radio National coverage that bear noting.
Some of the commentary and discussion on RNZ was excellent, while others (with all due respect, especially from Mr. Nightingale from PwC) was inaccurate. Note:
· FATCA does not just apply to “Americans living in New Zealand,” but would violate the personal privacy of an unknown number of New Zealanders in your own country.
· The pending FATCA agreement is not a “treaty” and is not just an extension of existing tax treaties (as Mr. Nightingale stated) but a new set of obligations imposed on NZ with at best questionable legal status, and no legal obligation on the US side.
· FATCA is not just about people who are avoiding taxes, and in fact not a single provision in the FATCA statute targets actual tax evasion activity; rather, it is an NSA-style data dragnet.
· Whatever meagre amount IRD claims enforcement of the pending NZ would cost, it would be far dwarfed by the millions of dollars per financial institution that will be passed on to Kiwi consumers.
· New Zealand would not receive any useful tax information in return from the US.
· The trump argument for agreeing to FATCA – the threat of 30% withholding – has no legitimate basis in international law or norms of state-to-state behavior. It is a threat of extrajudicial reprisal against your citizens, your consumers, and your national sovereignty.
These and other problems with the pending NZ law are addressed in my submission to the relevant NZ parliamentary committee, here.
That’s all for the moment. Now, back to proofing my own submission to the Select Committee and get it up loaded. 13 hours left until the comment ability is removed.
This is no accident, as it was no accident that the CBC and other news outlets picked it up in Canada. Congratulations to everyone in all hemispheres for your hard, and often seemingly fruitless work. Now all we need is some traction. Keep going!
A suggestion: Please put the “Abolish FATCA” petition in your comments to news articles, and where ever you can.
https://www.abolishfatca.com/live/
It’s nice to see FATCA trying to use the Internet to gather data being hopefully defeated by the Internet in an attempt to implement this daft law. Tell the Yanks the tax border ends at the US physical border.
I hope the people of New Zealand see that it will make a difference and keep pushing to educate their people before their government signs in fear. There should be no fear to fight this US law.
The method of implementation is the beginning of extortion. In international law, this would be pure extortion. I hope the media in New Zealand wakes up before it is too late. The Canadian media is waking up and showing Fatca for what it is. Pure Extortion. The world CAN stand up to the US bully….. you’ll see!
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NZ has no option but to co-operate with the controversial US FATCA tax law, PM John Key says
What a mindset to bring to a negotiation, but of course, when it comes to FATCA IGA, it is a one way cram down, but hate to see this mentality in a Leader. I would not bet on him in a prize fight! He would lay down and take a TKO before the bell sounded for round one!
What do you expect from someone who just played a round of golf with Obama and claimed it was worth 10 years of bi-lateral discussions?
I have been trying to post the following on the Stuff website since earlier today in NZ but keep getting an error message …. on this and other attempted posts to this web site … can anyone tell me what the error “An error has occurred, please try again later (400006)” means?
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nervousinvestorLess than a minute ago
An error has occurred, please try again later (400006)
You say inter alia that FATCA is about “private details about Americans living in New Zealand.” NOT SO. FATCA is far broader and includes anybody of any citizenship that the US CHOOSES to define from time to time as a “US Person”. That includes Kiwi Green Card holders; Kiwis married to US persons of any definition; persons who are the Kiwi children of one or more US Citizens or Green Card Holders; Kiwi businesses, Charities and Government Agencies who employ a US Person and because of their seniority they are a designated Cheque Signatory on that Business, Charity or Government Agency Bank Account; Kiwi Businesses in which a US Person owns 10% or more of the share capital of the business and so on and so on; Kiwis who have a vacation home in the US, or a US Telephone number or a US C/O Address or who travel frequently to the US whether on Business or Personal affairs and who spend more than 60 days a year in the US (I am not sure that the 60 days has been set in concrete yet but the difficulty is that such an “indicator” can cause a Kiwi to have to incur significant compliance costs to PROVE that they have no US tax liability). This extra territorial over reach which will cause costs to be imposed on even the poorest person in NZ (and India and elsewhere worldwide for that matter due to the significant compliance costs that will necessarily be incurred by the financial, Government and people of all countries and which will push up the prices of goods in shops worldwide) is outrageous. The World must stand up and PEACEFULLY Just Say NO ! to FATCA. The US needs to back off and join the rest of the world with Residency Based Taxation and to give up this conceited concept of owning people regardless of where they live worldwide. Slavery needs to be stopped.
nervousinvestor,
Possible explanation on “An error has occurred, please try again later (400006)” http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090528130542AA76lBq from me, someone who has no idea. I hope you’ll keep trying to get your comment posted.
With Canada down, New Zealand is f%#*d for sure. (moderator input!) 🙂
Sorry for being so vulgar. I should have wrote New Zealand is “facked” for sure.
Most popular blog in New Zealand I believe made some stupid comments, calling U.S. citizens with bank account in New Zealand basically tax cheats.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/02/beyond_the_hyperbole.html
@Stateless Man…
What idiots! They of course have NO IDEA what they are talking about.
I have been busy with lots of comments to day in the Interest.co.nz site, and not registered on the Kiwiblog slight, but will see if I can get a comment or two up at least to counter some of the nonsense…
Canadians on this blog are obviously busy with their BIG Capitulation Disappointment, so don’t expect much help there. I have also been trying to comment on the Financial Post story…
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/02/05/canada-signs-agreement-to-dull-impact-of-u-s-crackdown-on-tax-cheats/
@Stateless Man @Just Me
I’ve never been on Kiwiblog before, so I registered and posted. As yet, they have not let my comment out of moderation. I posted the following:
Oh dear, this just shows how much ignorance there is out there. It’s all about American’s evading tax – Yeah Right ! You need to do some proper research before you write garbage like this. Do you understand what a “US person” is? This is a term made in Washington, not Wellington. It includes the following:
Anyone born in the US (even if they came here as an infant).
Anyone born in New Zealand with a US parent
Former Green Card holders
Even with half a brain you can see that this includes large numbers of New Zealanders, some of who haven’t even visited the US. For example, former Deputy PM Wyatt Creech is a “US Person” because he was born there and came to live here before he was one year old. Phoenix footballer Tyler Boyd is a “US Person” because he was born in Tauranga with a US Parent.
Do these people sound like US tax cheats? What about totally non-US New Zealand spouses of “US persons”? They will have their data reported too if they have joint accounts.
What sort of “taxes” are these New Zealanders evading?
Well, for a start, if you are self-employed you should be handing over 16% of your income in social security taxes to the IRS (on top of your NZ taxes) because there is NO exemption for that. Got a Kiwisaver account? Prepare to pay US income taxes on your kickstart, MTCs and employer contributions, all TAXABLE as income based on US rules. Sold your NZ family home for a gain …. hand over capital gain taxes to them. Obamacare? Cough up for that too. Nothing in our dual tax treaty will save you from any of that.
Wan’t to renounce to escape… cough up US$450 for starters and make sure you have filed and paid your last 5 years taxes first. Try finding a tax adviser in NZ to help you, you won’t.
The list goes on……
I’d like to know who your banking source is? “If you are a New Zealander, you’ve got nothing to worry about” What an utterly ill-informed comment. This is going to cost all of us hundreds of millions while ceding our sovereignty for nothing in return.
What minority group shall we go after next? I hear the Brits are introducing “citizenship based taxation” soon…hmmm, might have a bit more of an issue with that.
@StatelessMan…
I guess I should stop calling people idiots about FATCA, as Canada taking up the challenge.
@Osgood…
I will watch to see how you go with the moderators, and then I might respond also.. If nothing else, it educates a few, hopefully. BTW, I think I saw a comment by you on interest.co.nz, that I just replied to.
@Just Me – It’s hard to remain calm when you see idiots happily cheer on the destruction of their fellow residents.
@Osgood – I know many duals in NZ that have been told by local accountants they have nothing to worry about in regards to the IGA that it only applies to rich U.S. citizens resident in the U.S. and they are not coming after regular folks, I send them the many links to stories showing them their accountant is wrong but I usually just don’t get a response after that.
Oh never mind…
Saturday Feb 8th, and the New Zealand Herald Weekend edition is out….
Headline… Drum roll please…
Cricketers in trouble Again….
Story above and below the fold.
So, that is what is important to Kiwis…and what makes BIG news…
Inside the Paper
The World section…
U.S. Hacked.. They love reporting on U.S. FU statements (they love to write out F**k) about the EU, but no mention of the U.S. F.U on FATCA, of course…
In the Business Section..
Nothing…
A FATCA search online, only returns
this…
I take this as a clear message, that they are NOT interested in this story
@Just Me
Amazing that NZ Herald deems this to be un-newsworthy. BTW – my comment on kiwiblog finally came out of moderation after 4 days!
@osgood…
Well, it was a long weekend, and there is sports on TV to follow! 🙂
Sorry if it’s been posted somewhere else. Have you seen that article:
Banks calm fears on tax deal with US
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11205829
“Parliament’s finance and expenditure committee last week heard from submitters worried that New Zealanders with joint accounts with US spouses or partners could have their details supplied to US tax authorities.
But ANZ risk programme director Conon Kilner told the committee yesterday: “That’s not what we’re going to do. We will only report the customer data of the US person.”
Uhm… it doesn’t really make sense. So, for joint accounts with a New Zealander, they will only send the name, birthdate of the US spouse, but not the account information. Is that how people should interpret that? Still doesn’t solve the accidental American or double citizens cases.
@noone…
I am in email exchange with the journalist that wrote this…. It was severely edited by his Editors, and we are talking on Monday about the whole range of FATCA subjects…
Here is something I said back in an email…
If you were talking to him, what 5 key points would you want to make?
I think the article has mis-interpreted the situation. When the banker said they will only report the “customer data” of the US person, they meant that, in the case of a joint account, the non-US persons name will not be reported. However, all the other information, account balances etc. WILL be reported. Effectively the joint account will look like it was solely owned by the US person to the IRS.
To me, this is no comfort at all to the New Zealander (non-US). His account details are still being handed over in the name of his spouse, but his name is omitted. Big deal, his family accounts are still in jeopardy. What will happen (as we already have reports of) is that the US person will be removed from the joint account, which solves the reporting problem but leaves that person exposed as to their claim on the assets, particularly in the event of relationship breakdown. The New Zealander (US Person) has now become a 2nd class citizen in their own country.
I think this would also apply to non-profits and companies etc., where the USP has signing authority. It looks to me like the account will be reported as “owned” by the USP.
Anyone confirm my interpretation of this?
@Just Me
You got there ahead of me …. glad you are speaking to him on Monday 😉
This from the IGA:
The term “Account Holder” means the person listed or identified as the
holder of a Financial Account by the Financial Institution that maintains the
account
In the case of being a signatory on a business account, does that make you an “Account Holder”? It’s not clear.
@Just Me, I loved your email and the reference to the Siamese twin. Perfect analogy.
I don’t see how Kiwis associated by marriage to US people are not going to be affected, unless they said they were not going to transfer joint account info at all.
One keypoint is about protection. The non US persons are going to want to protect themselves from a predatory foreign government who might apply huge penalties. And unfortunately, there are not many ways to protect yourself other than segregating the US person. This is just not acceptable.
Another keypoint is discrimination. How can countries agree to discriminate, and put at risk their accidentals Americans and duals, or even people who temporarily worked there, and their NZ families? We’re back centuries ago!
Another keypoint is the definition of US person, that encompasses much more than just US citizens.
Another keep point is responsibility from the government to protect its people. It is unreasonable to classify an accidental as a US citizen, when they might not even have step a foot other there.
The government needs to protect their banking information, and not send them to a foreign government.
The consequences could be that they potentially could be arrested if they travel to the US.
Another one that justifies the panic is the unreasonable penalties associated with the failure to file.
Sending the name of these people is potentially going to ruin them.
At some point, we need a government which has the balls to draw a line in the sand to unreasonable demands. At the very minimum, we need that carve out for dual citizens and accidentals.
Someone needs to force the US to move to RBT. I still don’t understand why foreign governments haven’t united to protect this class of citizens.