The following are ramblings as I wonder the group most represented here, those who are so ‘gobsmacked’ and talk about their similar reactions after their OMG moments and the reality of what the U.S. requires of them.
This largest group of us seems to be:
– 50 years and up,
– generally financially responsible, and
– ALL here, completely tax compliant where we live.
This experience for us has dispelled ALL our beliefs and assumptions, ALL of them. What an awakening, our OMG moments.
This experience is so hard for this group of people to deal with. As people who have tried to follow the rules, we don’t comprehend how we are being most hurt. We see our lives being destroyed at the hand of the country we once believed in. We are at the end of the building of our lives and planning for leaving something to our offspring. We also have the burden of realizing (as most of us didn’t know) we have passed onto our children a U.S. citizenship — an automatic gift, rather than a claim to a U.S. citizenship from their birth to parent(s) who had been born in and lived in the U.S. for a requisite number of years. We feel a whole lot of guilt about that — and our children are actually the other group most affected by the realization of U.S. tax and reporting responsibilities. For them (and for us, their parents), it is almost incomprehensible.
I, like most of this group, felt in control of my life, knowing I had saved and planned responsibly for what I would leave my children when I’m gone. I, and perhaps we, cannot believe that control over life has gone, now being determined by congresspersons of a country we may not have been part of for decades. For someone proud of having worked hard and of putting one foot in front of the other to overcome other life challenges, anything I now do to insure my future proves futile. At 70 years of age, I cannot start over. There is no consistency; my life has up’s and down’s; hope and despair in the long wait to learn how my Government of Canada will protect my family from a foreign country being able to come into Canada and effectively categorize me and my family members as second-class Canadians. Why have I lost that sense of joy I once had? Why can I not now plan or spend from savings and enjoy some of my retirement years? Why am I now afraid of future costs I will have related to my son’s U.S. matters? Why do I continue to be so angry?
There are obviously many of the million or so of us in Canada who are not affected this same way. I ask myself why that is. I ask myself if there are different types of personality, rendering some persons more resilient and able to live in denial of what is happening to them.
Most of this group have fond memories of the America in which they grew up, were “taught about” in American schools and pledged allegiance to at the start of each day. I now recognize that as a soft form of brainwashing that we believed, as the homelanders now, America is a special place you can count on: exceptional from other countries of the world.
This group of us generally was taught and believed that fairness and justice correlated with law and lawyers. We tried to live up to being good citizens, believing the U.S. to be the most moral country with the justice of law carried out by law and lawyers — they were equated with our concept of morality.
Our young minds were molded based on that ‘U.S. entitlement’ and belief that law is basically moral. Most of this group has believed and some may still believe that lawyers are basically honest; we trusted that it would be with their help we would be able to do whatever we needed to do to bring ourselves into compliance with the U.S. that we honestly had not known was required. All would turn out OK. The extent that some lawyers have taken advantage of many is almost incomprehensible to us. In most cases they have exacerbated problems. Distrust of lawyers is now extreme. There are, however, those that abhor what is happening to us and do want to effectively help. Most people now think all lawyers (even the ones many absolutely need) will take advantage of them. We feel rather helpless, then, to find solutions by ourselves.
That molding of minds is the basis for which we ask ourselves, “Why did I not know?” and blame ourselves because we did not, although we should have.
‘No fool like an old fool’ comes to mind as we now realize what fools we were to buy into any of that concept of American exceptionality. We feel a strong and justifiable sense of betrayal of the country in which our lives started. We have and are losing a lot of responsibly saved and invested money — and it has nothing to do with tax evasion.
This experience disrupts our very relationship with ourselves. We no longer understand ourselves – and that’s what is a real problem. We see some caught into a place where they blame themselves and cannot move on. Even those of us who think we don’t blame ourselves, probably do in more minute ways.
I did not know there was any difference between the citizenship-based taxation of the U.S. (and do not remember having ever learned of that concept in any US civics class) and that of other countries, which is based on residence. I never became aware of that citizenship taxation concept during my adult years, so finding that I WAS still considered a U.S. citizen and had U.S. tax return and reporting responsibilities the whole time I have lived in Canada, was unbelievable to me. I ask myself why would I not have known of this as the media asks the same and calls me a U.S. tax evader, or at least a U.S. tax avoider, and a US traitor for choosing to live in Canada. I only knew that I had decided to stay in Canada and raise my family here and in 1975 felt a responsibility to Canada to became a citizen here. At that time I was warned by the U.S. Consulate that I would be relinquishing my U.S. citizenship by doing so — WARNED as that was the message at that time. Message taken; should I blame myself for never again checking in with the US on what my tax responsibility might be? In my mind, I just changed my responsibility to my new country, Canada, and paid the U.S. no more attention, except that I still had family there. Why did I not know — self blame?
I do know that I and we feel so betrayed. THIS IS ALL ABOUT BETRAYAL!!!
One of my favourites that helped me understand myself, I recommend to you: a piece that said what my mind was thinking is My Wound is Geography. I could absolutely relate.
********************
I wonder what is the difference between this most affected group and those who have the same definition of U.S.ness but are not here discussing this with us? What allows some to stay in denial? Is it that different personality types handle all this differently? Is there a relationship between personality types and the damage this has done to us?
Are those of us in discussion and working at advocacy here the same who ARE tax compliant and many of whom have made our decision to renounce or claim the relinquishment of our US citizenship? Do you feel, as I do, a real need to carry on as a voice for the many of our brothers and sisters who will be affected by FATCA and U.S. citizenship-based taxation coming to the countries in which they chose to live.
********************
Then, there is the group of “Accidental Americans” who have lived their whole lives outside the U.S., with absolutely no connection to the U.S. Pure incredulity that the U.S. can tell them they have to file U.S. tax returns and FBARs and will penalize their not having done so by draconian fines. Why?
There is one lawyer I am aware of who is advocating for common-sense solutions for these persons.
[ UPDATE: I am reminded by Em’s comment below that it would, of course, be a best solution for the US to change from citizenship-based taxation (CBT) to residence-based taxation (RBT). That would solve so much of this injustice for U.S. Persons Abroad. “After multiple delays, it seems that the Republican leadership has finally authorized the Ways and Means Committee to go ahead with tax reform…” Will the U.S. consider that or (yes, cynically) is it more likely they won’t as continuing with CBT gives the U.S. IRS such an effective means of collecting tax on passive income that is not subject to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE)? Is the time right for tribute from the “foreign” retirement savings of so many in the 50 and above age group? ]
From Mr. Flott’s letter to IRS Director of Individual International Compliance About Tax and Financial Account Reporting by Long Term Non-Resident Dual Citizens.
The context within which I ask you to consider the enclosed proposal is based on the following categories of US citizens that generally follow those outlined to the Commissioner in March 2009:
1. US citizens and permanent residents who live in the United States;
2. US citizens and permanent residents who are on temporary work assignments outside the United States or who work for US government agencies overseas;
3. US citizens, not covered by Category 2 above, who have resided outside the United States continuously beginning on or after January 1, 2003;
4. US citizens who have resided outside the United States continuously for more than ten years as of January 1, 2013 and continue to reside outside the United States;
5. US citizens who were born in the United States, but moved from the United States prior to their 18th birthday and have resided continuously outside the United States since that time; and
6. US citizens born outside the United States who have never resided in the United States.The OVDP exists for people in categories 1 & 2, and is a good option for such people to bring themselves into compliance with their US tax and bank reporting obligations.
The SFCP is probably suitable for people in category 3 with several minor modifications as noted below: (1) changing the eligibility requirement to “on or after January 1, 2003”; (2) fixing a hard tax liability amount ($1,500 is too low for many reasons); (3) setting a fixed number of tax returns to be filed and clarifying the tax year for which returns are required (e.g., three years counting from the most recent year for which a return is delinquent); (4) maintaining the number of FBAR’s to be filed at six years, counting from the most recent year for which an FBAR is delinquent; and (5) removing “simple” before tax return in the eligibility criteria or providing a more definitive description of what constitutes “simple”.
The enclosed proposed new procedure is for people in categories 4, 5 and 6. In a nutshell, it creates a “noisy” alternative for taxpayers who can establish that they fall within one of the last three categories listed above by answering a detailed questionnaire, the purpose of which is to provide a basis on which the Service can determine their culpability for being delinquent.
I want to be in tune to what will come of this lawyer’s plea to the U.S. for common sense on behalf of these ‘U.S. citizens’ who had no choice; they automatically obtained a U.S. citizenship with so many costs and no benefit (although there could be benefit if one so chose, for instance more easily accepting employment and living in the U.S.). That could be remedied by CHOICE, an option to claim a U.S. citizenship at adulthood if somehow these persons inherited the qualifications.
So, my question again, what are our personality types that give us or deny us resilience?
In the meantime, let’s all of us give up blaming OURSELVES for any of this!! We are not BAD people, no matter the bad that is happening to us because of our having lost (or won for some who wish to choose that) the U.S. citizenship lottery that now equates, for U.S. Persons Abroad or Green Card holders within the U.S., to toxicity. No matter what we tell ourselves; no matter what any others may tell us, we are just more collateral damage of more bad U.S. law.
Glad to again hear that.
Maybe print off those other better beliefs and put them on your fridge, monalisa. Have a look at them every time you feel the bad fear. I’m so glad you’re here with everyone in this fight. I know that you know how so proud I am of the steps you’ve taken to get to where you are. You are going to be OK!
Cheers. Happy Holidays; the daylight hours are longer hereon in this winter, so Happy Winter Solstice too.
Yes, @Calgary, the Druids and Wizards have enjoyed their winter solstice today at Stonehenge, so it’s all better from now on! 😉
I really look forward to the longer warmer days of spring, plus realise I will feel such a huge relief once my final tax return has been filed, hopefully within six months. A lot of the stress is still being essentially at my accountant’s mercy in terms of her final bill. They will probably charge me a premium but at least it should all be finally finished after that with a clean break.
I will also feel better if my upcoming visit in February goes smoothly. I vent a lot on here (because I have the internet at my fingertips via my smartphone) but at least it’s very therapeutic; bear with me, I know there will be light at the end of this tunnel!! 😀
Plus, sometime a stiff drink or two is just what the doctor ordered. 😉
@monalisa
Cheers to you having a great spring ahead leave all those FATCA cares behind.
I am having a nice stiff shot of tequila in honor of solstice and your coming good sprin, all of coming good spring.
I was at Stonehenge last year and met a druid. Very cool!
@monalisa1776 wrote: “At the recent ACA meeting in London I was told that the US authorities are already very aware of Isaac Brock and consider this essentially a tax protestor site.”
There are lots of reasons for that: anonymity, lack of particular direction and occasional hysteria.
Bear in mind that there are 3 to 6 million Amcits abroad and just over 1 million tax returns are filed from “non-state” addresses, which would leave a few hundred thousand from foreign addresses.
The problem for Canadian-Americans (and for pre-provincial health insurance Canadians who happen to have been born in the USA only because that was the nearest maternity clinic) is that they are so close to the border. Many, indeed most (by far) of the 3 (or 6 or 7, nobody knows) Amcits abroad seem to avoid passports, tax returns and (if born in the USA) travel to the United States.
It is pointed out that it is mainly the over-50s who are concerned. Hardly surprising: it’s the over-50s who have money and would be “covered” renunciants. This was discussed in London on Sunday and no doubt I’ll hear it again in Montréal in 11 days. Any system of self-assessment depends on fear to enforce compliance. Some use disproportionate penalties for noncompliance to make their point.
It is tragic to see those who feel forced into OVDP, into a wipeout of their retirement savings and family assets, over a law that was never aimed at them, but solely at US-based persons who had avoided tax on current income by depositing it abroad, and then not paid tax on the interest on that income either. The USG real target is that initial untaxed deposit. See some of the cases here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/210803701 There are hundreds of thousands of accidental Amcits who are doing nothing. With the supreme confidence that their principal country of nationality will stand behind them. With the border so close, Canadian-Americans are at greater risk I suppose. But no more so (indeed a lot less so) than Ronald Anderson http://www.uniset.ca/other/news/wp_ronaldanderson.html
I used to love going to Rock Island (Stanstead) QC and drift back and forth over the border, on the main street. Last time I was there I was told I couldn’t do that anymore. There’s a Web video of kids complaining that they can’t retrieve their balls. A U.S. Border guard’s starting salary is $39,000, rising to $46,000. You don’t get the best and brightest for that. Compare that with Canada: $55,133 to $61,570
http://www.criminaljusticeschoolinfo.com/salary-for-jobs-in-homeland-security.html
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/job-emploi/bso-asf/hiring-embauche-eng.html
@5thSwiss, I agree with all your recent posts, about all the issues…my guess is that anyone who’s unintentionally got into an awkward situation will reduce one’s risk of trouble by being polite if having to deal with any officialdom. I agree that the IRS would likely much prefer to avoid certain anomalous cases ,especially when benign actors (and minnows) are involved.
I concluded that by making a squeaky -clean disclosure will have hopefully enabled me to disentangle myself from the trap without losing a leg. I believe that tact and discretion can go a long way when dealing with officials. I suppose I’ve concluded that I as an individual am not going to change the world so am trying to minimize the damage and potential risks.
While I respect others on here for really digging in their heels and sticking absolutely to their principles, I am more pragmatic. I don’t want to make myself a sitting target. I am more of the comply, complain, and warn camp…
I also agree that the IRS will mainly prioritize who they pursue based on how much is involved and how easily collectible their assets are. Middle class expats, especially those permanently settled abroad with dual nationality and the bulk of their assets outside the United States would be much lower on their priorities; However, I share your concern that their enforcement budget could be unrestrained if they were to get really pisses off with someone, even a minnow. This is why I have avoided going to the press or publicly attacking the US government or IRS. It’s noble to have principles but when dealing with a bear, I’d rather not goad it.
I also agtwenty though that a significant number of Expats will have tragically lost a substantial portion of their retirement savings through being wrongly advised into entering the OVDP. It’s a buyer beware world out there! I may have drawn a middle straw but will soon be able to sleep at night, thankfully. I speak as a casualty of the collateral damage but at least I still have my life and many blessings, even if retirement has been pushed back by several years….
I wish everyone on here the very best!! 🙂
Refer to discussion at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/05/23/canadas-registered-disability-savings-plan-rdsp-canadas-finance-minister-flaherty-responds-regarding-this-as-well-as-the-resp-and-tfsa/comment-page-2/#comment-1181293.
I guess some of us will and some of us won’t just sit down, shut up, be polite as a Stepford Wife and condone what the US is able to do with their unjust citizenship-based taxation, combined with FATCA — and how our own countries become complicit. It seems, after all, a new world order.
Some will do what they have to do for themselves and their families, including sitting down, shutting up and being polite and getting on with their lives — and able to go unrecognized. Is that really what rights are about? I wish it were only my family to be affected with someone with a ‘mental incapacity’. That is far from reality.
I, too, wish everyone the best in what they choose to do. God help us all.
@Calgary, your doggedness is admirable. I’m learning from everything I’ve been through and researched that tax enforcement would appear to be nuanced.
The general consensus at the recent London meeting was that many OVDI attorneys and compliance firms presented the situation as black and white without nuance, thus funnelling many benign actors into the OVDI. It was suggested by some eminent lawyers in attendance that many within the IRS itself are in reality quite sympathetic and that it’s actually Congress and some of the predatory (or misinformed) compliance professionals who are the most dangerous.
It was also suggested that people born to US citizens such as your son are quite possibly not necessarily even considered full-fledged US citizens; that it could well be arguably more a case of choosing to claim the rights to citizenship rather than it being forced. It’s a grey area, hence why it might have been safer to stay below the parapet.
I believe, however, that your son will be fine and treated mercifully because it would cause a major diplomatic row between Canada and the US if he were to be gone after.
monalisa,
Other than this is NOT about my son (and always only partially about my son, but some don’t understand that),
CLAIM TO US CITIZENSHIP — of course, that’s the way it SHOULD BE.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/01/irs-starts-criminal-investigations-of-renunciants-and-relinquishers/comment-page-1/#comment-1166676
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/01/irs-starts-criminal-investigations-of-renunciants-and-relinquishers/comment-page-2/#comment-1166764IRSCF,
It may be related to the DOS advice I got regarding my “entrapped-into-US-citizenship” son:
I hired a Washington, DC nationality / immigration lawyer to confirm my son’s US status and give possibilities for his renunciation. Result was that my children were US citizens from the moment of their births. And, straight from the US Department of State:
Also,
Is that just like “All (US) persons are created equal — it’s just that some are more equal than others”?
@ calgary411
Actually I think you are quite polite. I’m the one who can be quite the stinker sometimes. I simply cannot integrate with injustice and I have a low tolerance for complexity. Kind of sounds like I might be inferring something about a 3 letter agency across the border doesn’t it. Wonder if we get less spied upon if we don’t use key search words? Anyway our world is upside down and we have the right (until they take it away) to squeal about it.
One other thing we should all listen to before settling for being quiet and unobtrusive, good girls and boys – don’t make waves, so perhaps the US Government will not have to be embarrassed and thus threaten us! This submission to Congress is what USA freedom of speech should be about! http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/04/an-historic-day-help-canada-stand-up-to-the-american-bully-donate-now-to-the-canadian-charter-challenge-fund-2/comment-page-14/#comment-1183325
Bravo to a brave woman who stands up for herself, her family, for others oppressed. Thanks for leading us to this video, crystal london!!!!!!!!
Ring in those donations to fight this monstrosity. Do not be quiet and hope you will not be noticed. There are others who need your help — they have no voice.
I vividly remember the day I fully grasped the horror of FATCA having spent the prior few days scouring everything on the internet I could find about FATCA and CBT, and thankfully discovering IBS in the process. We were feeling the remnants of Hurricane Sandy here in Ottawa particularly violently where I live in the outskirts on a quiet wooded court. The wind was howling like I’d never seen it before, totally matching my mood. I knew then standing outside on the front porch listening to the angry noise of the wind through the trees, and feeling part of that, that I could NEVER rest until this thing was killed.
So, here we are almost a year and a half later. Much has changed, but the battle is FAR from over. I have noticed that every night my dreams are full of anxiety – being chased, pursued, getting lost, etc. I wake up stressed out after a night of anxious dreaming.
I need to figure out HOW to live a normal daily life, yet stay tuned with the FATCA fight. How does one NOT let this consume them?
@WhiteKat I can totally relate to the dreams of anxiety every night. Even though I’m on anxiety meds, the dreams don’t stop.
My husband is the accidental American and he is not at all concerned about this, he doesn’t read IBS or anything related to FATCA. He figures I’m on top of it, if the world is ending I’ll sound the alarm. How each of us copes with FATCA seems to have alot to do with our individual personalities.
My anxiety extends far beyond FATCA. My internet business services an almost exclusively US customer base and US suppliers. Business was down ALOT between January 2012 and August 2013. There was a pick up in the second half of 2013 but I don’t know how long it’s going to last.
I never discuss FATCA with my American suppliers or customers but have found that even the nicest US suppliers are jumping down my throat for no good reason. Strange that it’s the suppliers doing that and not the customers. I think it’s because of the business climate down there, nothing to do with me being Canadian. There is so much suffering going on in the US right now that you wouldn’t be aware of unless you are immersed in their business environment like I am. Millions of people are losing their homes and businesses down there.
The US government has not been governing since the Democrats lost their majority in the House. They are careening from crisis to crisis. If their government was functional they possibly could have come up with a solution to let long term Canadian residents off the hook. There’s almost 3 more years left of this impotent administration. By then most Americans resident in the US will have lost almost all of their wealth.
@WhiteKat, OMG
I believe, at least for myself, that we dream of things we don’t allow ourselves to process consciously. Our fears need to be dealt with constructively, and when we don’t, they erupt in many ways. The results can be debilitating.
@bubblebustin, debilitating is definitely the right word.
When my US supplier blew up on me, I threatened to stop selling their products even though it would harm my business, they supply me with products that I couldn’t get at the same cost anywhere else and they carry a ton of stock.
I knew I had to let him know that I did not need him so much that I’d put up with abuse. He backed off and asked me to keep them on as a supplier. I told him I’d think about it and so far have decided to keep them. He does not own the company I’m dealing with and I’m thinking that probably his job is at risk which is why he acted so out of character. Still it’s not nice to be attacked unjustly. These days attacking unjustly is the only thing some Americans seem to know how to do.
@omgheesstillanamerican
up until 9/11 on my trips to the states i found america quite a “happy” place to be. subsiquent to 9/11 with each passing trip i found america to be an “angry” place to be and getting worse with each passing trip.
on my last (and literaly and figurativly) trip down in november after not having been south of the border in over a year everybody seemed that much more down trodden.
i will miss the sights and sounds of america (since now thanks to both our gov’ts i will never be traveling to america again) but not so much the sadness that seems to be enveloping its people.
@WhiteKat
like bob dylan said “the answer is blown in the wind” or the dead and “going to hell in a bucket”
just not sure which is more appropriate 🙂
@OMG
I think of their behaviour more as tantrums.
@OMG, it must be frustrating to be the Canadian-only spouse who is worried. My case is the reverse, or at least it use to be. After all my rantings and FATCA/CBT dissertations, my spouse seems to have turned the corner, and become more concerned, though not exactly worried. This could backfire though, as he makes joking comments about it being time to get rid of me…lol.
@WhiteKat, my husband and I are die hard Conservative voters, in fact we are the only Conservative voters in both our families. Whenever politics are discussed at the dinner table at Christmas, I keep repeating to myself in my head “Keep your mouth shut, you’re a guest in this house!”
After Canada signed the IGA, I told him we’re not going to vote Conservative anymore. He looked at me like I’d lost my mind. I said we’re going to vote for whoever is against FATCA the most and has the best chance for winning just to teach the Conservatives a lesson. I said these bastards just threw you under the bus, why would you give them your vote?
He has come around to the idea that we need to move most of our savings to a credit union and put it in an account that has my name on it only. It’s a good thing we’ve been married 30 years or he might be thinking I’m about to take him for a ride. He’s always said that the one thing he can be sure of with me is that I would never screw him over financially if we ever got divorced. My pride wouldn’t allow me to do that to a man.
@OMG, I have to say OMG I am perplexed that any Canadian ‘US person’ would even consider ever voting Conservative again.
@WhiteKat, my husband is very slow to anger. He’s very un-American that way. He still thinks there’s a chance this whole thing will go away. In times of extreme tribulation, he’s the guy that never loses his cool. His calmness has helped us get through very difficult times in our past.
I try to limit how much I say to him about what I read at IBS so he doesn’t think I’ve gone crazy and need to be locked up in a mental institution : )
@OMG
It suxs to be the only one who is worried about this. As soon as I start talking about what I learned to my family… they poo-poo or push me off. Everyone has a complex and different situation. I am still at the trying to figure it out because this not only involves my immediate family but it also others in my family that I will have to deal with. I realized… if the US wants to solve the illegal & immigrantation problems… tell every one of them about this crap before they apply… If we had known about this… we would have never ever taken the GC noose. When I meet people… who mention about going to the US… I warn them off… don’t go to the US, no one said jack to us about it. I never figured I would be a tax evader with off shore accounts.. I always thought as tax evader as rich as heck & off shore was in an account down in the islands… with secret numbers or such. Unlike me who had the crap in my name… Then to rub salt in the wound… immigrants are not organized with a vote or voice… so we are to meekly obey… if this is considered a *tax protester* so be it… U are robbing us unfairly…. Ok… my rant is over… sorry about that… umm… got carried away… lol
@OMG, If it goes away, it won’t be because no one got angry.
Regardless, there are some days I wish I was more like your husband, for my own personal sanity.
@US_Person_Foreigner,
Your situation is particularly tough, and we so often forget about immigrants to the US in our discussions here at Brock. I have family members with children who immigrated to the US. They refuse to discuss FATCA with me; its like they have their fingers in their ears and do not want to know about it, or perhaps they are taking pains unknown to me to deal with their particular situation.
I also have a family member through marriage that is a Canadian ‘US person’, who also has cut me off from all dialogue. Keep in mind I live away from them, so most of our communication was via email. However, they continue to ignore anything I write on the matter. I think they think I have lost my mind. Give it some more time, and they may be right!
@WhiteKat
They refuse to talk about it cause they don’t believe it involves them… Yes we are immigrants… but for alot of the older ones… eww… that includes me… we split out time… My parents & elders split their time in about 4 countries a yr… with complete lives there… I split my time between 2 countries now… So the money that is considered *off-shore* is after tax money, inheritances or gifts… to live on. We were stupid… should have just spent it all instead of saving… lol… My biggest issue is why the gov’t is demanding a road map of everything I have… then share it with who ever… I don’t trust the gov’t to keep anything safe… In my family… we kind of talk money… in general terms… but not exactly what we have… My significant other doesn’t even know what we have… but he does think we have a money tree in the yard & tries to spend it all… lol
As WhiteKat says, no one comes to their senses unless they become aware of what it is they have to come to their senses over, and Americans have their fingers in their ears because they don’t want to become disillusioned with what they believe America stands for. Denying something doesn’t make it any less true, however.