It’s been months since I’ve seen any availability for Vancouver appointments. Thanks to Cyal8rUS, who posted the following comment on the “About the Isaac Brock Society” page.
“If someone with authorship privileges would be able to blog this: The Vancouver US Consulate FINALLY has new appointments available for “other” ACS services. If you have been trying to book a renunciation appointment, get there quickly. …”
The Vancouver website says; “If you would like to make an appointment to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship, please email VancouverCLN@state.gov ” So, I e-mailed that address a few minutes ago and got an immediate automated reply (very comprehensive with detailed instructions). Of particular interest is this paragraph [emphasis added]:
“IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.”
So: (1) only one visit is required, (2) you must book through Vancouver.CLN@state.gov (not through the online calendar).
Full text of the e-mail after the arrow.
“Thank you for contacting us regarding renouncing U.S. citizenship.
Please do not reply to this email. This inbox is not monitored.
Renunciation of U.S. citizenship must 1) be taken in the presence of a
diplomatic or consular officer; 2) be taken outside the United States;
and 3) be in the precise form prescribed by the Secretary of State. It
is an irrevocable action that cannot be reversed. Should you choose to
pursue renunciation of your U.S. citizenship, you will have to complete
form DS-4079 – Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United
States Citizenship and come to the Consulate to sign an “Oath of
Renunciation of the Nationality of the United States” and a “Statement
of Understanding”. These documents form the basis for the Department of
State’s decision regarding the U.S. citizen’s request to renounce
citizenship and are enclosed for your information.Please review these additional documents before scheduling an
appointment: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html> ), Right
of Residence in the U.S. (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html> ), and
Dual Nationality (
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
<http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html> ).On July 13, 2010 the Department of State implemented a fee of $450 for
administrative processing of formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship.
This fee is payable in either U.S. or Canadian dollars or by major
credit card on the day of your appointment.Once you have all forms filled out and you have gathered the required
evidence, please email vancouveracs@state.gov
<mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov> to schedule an appointment. Your email
should indicate that you read this email and that you have filled out
all your required forms and gathered all required supporting
documentation. Please include a contact phone number in your email.IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.At the time of your appointment you must bring:
–Completed and unsigned Form DS4079 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–-Completed Form DS4080 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–Completed Form DS4081 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf> )–Original proof of U.S. citizenship. See this website for information
on proof of U.S. citizenship and requirements for U.S. birth
certificates:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
<http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first> .–Original proof of other citizenship (often a valid Canadian passport).
–Original evidence of name changes, if applicable (usually marriage
certificates of official name change document).–Your NEXUS card, if you have been issued one.
–Your U.S. Social Security Card, if you have one.
–The address of your last residence in the United States.
–Original evidence of your prior expatriating act if you are
documenting a prior relinquishment of U.S. citizenship (usually a
Canadian certificate of citizenship with the date you became a Canadian
citizen). This is not required if you are currently a U.S. citizen
renouncing your U.S. citizenship. Please see this link to learn about
the difference between relinquishment and renunciation (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html> ).–$450 for documentation of formal renunciation. We accept cash and
credit cards but do not accept debit or personal checks.Please refer to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) website
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-Statem
ent
<http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-State
ment> for information on U.S. federal tax form 8854 “Initial and Annual
Expatriation Information Statement”.Should you have any questions please send an e-mail to
vancouveracs@state.gov. <mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov.%20> “
Note Nov. 2013: No major changes since original posting, but for an update, see E hockin’s comment below regarding modification to this s/he received in November.
Moonstruck,
8854, Part V, Schedule B: 0 for total lines 1f and 4d and line 8.
9 – Gross Income from all other sources
10 – Total (of lines 8 and 9)
I managed to file my FBAR on line today and received a confirmation of arrival of file. It was labourious having to input the name and address of the financial institution for each account even though all the accounts are with one financial institution. Same with the information on the joint owner of the account – my poor Canadian wife. Feels very wrong to do that especially when the money in one of the joint accounts is all hers but at least I could do it. I have a Mac and needed the latest operating system to file (10.9.2). Also note that the latest Adobe reader has to be your default reader. Time for a drink!
Question regarding 8854. Hate to ask such simpleton questions. Nevertheless, can anyone explain the difference of Fair Market Value (Section V, col A) and US adjusted basis (section V, col B), as it applies to stocks and bond accounts. I would be much obliged. I understand what market value is and I grasp cost basis as applied to a stock.
Gratefully yours,
@Islander, congrats on getting your online FBAR filed. Did you complete using the values as of your CLN/renunciation date (vs 2013 year end)? And, if so, did you use the posted exchange rate for that renunciation date? For the FBAR at least, using the renunciation date and the exchange rate on that date seems to make the most sense to me but I’m curious to know how others are deciding what year end date and exchange rate to use for all the various 1040 related forms that ask for year end dates. Thanks again to everyone for sharing information on how you are handling these elements of the final tax return.
re: FMV vs ACB, fair market value is the current market value of the item (for the 8854, it would be the market value on your expatriation date). Adjusted Cost Basis is what it cost you to buy and maintain the item. For stocks and bonds, your ACB would include the price you paid for your shares plus any commissions and/or fees you paid to purchase, trade or maintain the shares. When you deduct ACB from FMV, the result is a capital gain or loss (column c).
I’m ready to tackle these forms but am a bit nervous about filing anything without having the CLN in hand to be absolutely sure there is no problem with my expatriation. It is a bit nervewracking. But if I don’t get the CLN before the filing deadline, I will go ahead and file without it, as others on this forum have advised. Again, thank you all for the help you provide.
clevegirl,
Unless you can find a reference to using an exchange rate other than specified for FBAR, it would likely be safer to use the stated USD rate for 8938, FBAR (shown below) or any other like instructions: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Comparison-of-Form-8938-and-FBAR-Requirements
Thank you for the detailed help on the 8854. I filed the FBAR using the amounts as of renouncing date and the exchange rate at that date also – it is higher than year end but in my case should not matter. I am getting increasingly frustrated by all the @#$%^& forms with language that it is hard to understand. I don’t think of myself as stupid but that belief is being tested. What about all the people out there who are less educated than I am? I have decided not to spend any more money on accountants but do my level, honest best. Enough is enough and I can’t wait to be done.
You’re absolutely correct, Islander. Even those with good education can have little financial literacy and understand any of this. What are they to do, especially with little or no financial resources to hire any US tax professional? It is torture what we have to go through to prove we are not the criminals we are labelled.
Good luck in getting through the rest of your process. Aren’t you glad you are at the end of it for yourself rather than just now having your OMG moment and now knowing what would lie before you? This is all INSANE.
Islander. Well done. You are approaching the realization that It doesn’t matter what you put down. they aren’t particularly interested in you . You can put down almost anything and that will be the end of it.
I renounced Nov 19. I have filed the FBAR and filled in IRS form 8854: Initial and Annual Expatriation Statement, and of course 1040. Now it is slowly dawning on me that I need to fill out form 8891 – U.S. Information Return for Beneficiaries of Certain Canadian Registered Retirement Plans as well as Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets. I probably should have done the latter two for some previous years but the IRS black hole has never complained. I am so teed off at the whole process that I just might implode. I thought I would mention these forms as I had no idea they existed. Maybe I should have let you live in peace instead of giving you the information. I keep wondering what would happen if I kept an ignorant stance. It is so tedious and a certainly somewhat anxiety provoking. Will someone come and snatch some assets. I would not care if I ever go down there again were it not for my ancient mother and a kid living in the States.
Finally got my CLN yesterday after renouncing in Vancouver on Nov 25, 2013. Too late to send in with my 8854 and 2013 final tax return, both of which I Fedexed off last week to make the June 15 deadline. Whew! Very relieved to have this official approval of my renunciation in hand although apparently it may cause some unpleasantness at the border, something I will probably have to test in the next few weeks when I go to Bellingham.
Getting info on how to complete the dual status return and do exchange rate calculations for 8854 balance sheet, and all of the little details for which there were not very clear instructions, took a huge amount of time and energy. In the end, I consulted with a cross border tax specialist on my various questions and followed her advice when completing my forms. I also had to do this for my two daughters who renounced in December, so wanted to do my best to get it right for all our sakes. One thing I learned is that there probably is no one right way to do any of it – ambiguous forms and a lot of gray areas. Even preparers within the same office have different ideas on how to complete some of the forms and which ones need to be completed.
Fingers crossed all of our returns and 8854s will be accepted as is and we can finally move on. For those who are still waiting for their CLNs, I think there is no rhyme or reason as to when you will receive. My daughters, both of whom renounced after me, received their CLNs before me — one in April, one in May and now mine in June.
Great news clevergirl! Everything all happening at once for you, but at least no waiting time to finish off things. Congratulations.
Phew. Glad for you. I echo your comments. I sent in my my taxes and 8854 mid May. Have not heard a thing. Crossed the border after my CLN was issued. I carry a paper copy with me, just in case. Smooth. No questions or comments. Sorry you had to wait so long.
Good to hear you had no problems crossing the border, Islander. Does your passport show a US birthplace? If so, were you asked about US citizenship and/or did you have to show your CLN? Or did you just say you were Canadian and weren’t asked anything beyond that?
Thanks to everyone at IBS for all the helpful information. I am relieved to have the tax returns and 8854s submitted and just hope I did them well enough to be accepted. So many different opinions on how to file these and hard to know which way to go with some of the many confusing elements. That’s why I decided to consult a cross border specialist to review some of my questions before submitting the forms. At this point, all I can say is that I did my best and leave it at that.
I have a US birthplace in my passport. I just give the customs official my passport. S/he will then ask about the purpose of my trip. I respond that I am going to see my mother. That usually results in a glance at my birthplace. I have never encountered any problems/talk when crossing by car, but I normally use very small crossings such as Nighthawk, BC. I have had probing questions at LAX airport. Nothing major just a question why no US passport. I just said that I am now Canadian (several years ago now). All passports appear to be checked into a machine whether traveling by car or plane. I can’t imagine that you will have real trouble. Perhaps some unpleasantness, but nothing formal.
Thanks, K. Wetzel, for sharing your info on crossing the border. Do you keep a copy of your CLN (I’m assuming you’ve renounced your US citizenship and have a CLN) in your passport to hand to the border officer upfront or just carry it with you separately in case you need it?
How do others handle the CLN when crossing the border? My crossings are primarily by car, and my initial thought is to just hand over my Canadian passport without the CLN and then show the CLN if the need arises.
Have not volunteered the CLN and would not do so. Just handy to have a copy if harassed about not having a US passport. Or so I imagine.
Thanks, that is the approach I’m going to take too..
@Clevegirl
“Finally got my CLN yesterday after renouncing in Vancouver on Nov 25, 2013. Too late to send in with my 8854 and 2013 final tax return, both of which I Fedexed off last week to make the June 15 deadline.”
Congratulations. You don’t send the CLN with those forms anyway, so no need to worry about that.
HELP!!
Tried the e-mail and amended e-mail procedures 6 times, everytime I get the above mentioned message to fill out and attach the various forms. However, my e-mails have all had all the forms filled and attached. It seems to be machine read and bounced. Any idea how to get some live body to respond with information about how to make an appointment?
@ John Johnson
My husband had a problem sending back the forms the Calgary consulate wanted filled in. They arrived back there with parts missing (he had filled in everything). He then installed the latest version of Adobe Reader. After that he tried again and everything got through. Maybe that will work for you.
Thanks for the quick reply, but I have the latest Adobe Reader installed. It looks like the forms are being machine read and bounced without regard for content or request for appointment.
Finally, out of the blue!! The consulate in Vancouver called me with an appointment! Sept. 11 in Vancouver! Apparently they actually do read their e-mails, just don’t readily respond. You have no way of knowing that a human has actually read the e-mail, the response initially is a machine response that directs you to submit forms, no matter that you have already submitted them, and tells you not to respond, no mention of any appointment. Then about a month or so afterwards, the big phone call. I must admit, on the phone they were extremely courteous and polite, and very helpful. Perhaps it was a Canadian employee of the consulate? At any rate, its progress and perhaps I can get this mess behind me finally. So far it has cost me about $12000.00 to get the taxes current and have all the forms filled out and submitted, and I didn’t owe the U.S. anything, just accountant fees. I could have perhaps gone the cheaper route and had them done by someone like H & R Block, but when I contacted them, I found that I had more knowledge of the required forms than they did, non reassuring at all. So I went with a professional accounting firm that has worlds of experience in our type of situation.
I will post my experience with the actual interview when it happens in hopes it may help someone else.
John
@John, good news! As you say progress at last. Given that you’re already up to date on the tax side, you should be done very quickly now as once you’ve renounced you can file the 8854 form any time after that. You have until June 15th next year to do it, but you don’t have to wait that long if you don’t want to. Same with the FBAR, you only need to file up to your renunciation date so can do that once you’ve taken the oath.
@Medea Fleecestealer
He’ll have to wait at least until the form 8854 for 2014 is released (in Dec. 2014 or Jan. 2015?). The currently available form only applies to renunciations up to 2013. Same goes for other tax forms (e.g. 1040) if applicable.
FBAR’s already filed, just waiting for the interview. Wasn’t aware that the 8854 was only for 2013. I will check that out, the accounting firm was going to file as that soon as I successfully finished the meetings.
Will post what I find out.
John