It’s been months since I’ve seen any availability for Vancouver appointments. Thanks to Cyal8rUS, who posted the following comment on the “About the Isaac Brock Society” page.
“If someone with authorship privileges would be able to blog this: The Vancouver US Consulate FINALLY has new appointments available for “other” ACS services. If you have been trying to book a renunciation appointment, get there quickly. …”
The Vancouver website says; “If you would like to make an appointment to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship, please email VancouverCLN@state.gov ” So, I e-mailed that address a few minutes ago and got an immediate automated reply (very comprehensive with detailed instructions). Of particular interest is this paragraph [emphasis added]:
“IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.”
So: (1) only one visit is required, (2) you must book through Vancouver.CLN@state.gov (not through the online calendar).
Full text of the e-mail after the arrow.
“Thank you for contacting us regarding renouncing U.S. citizenship.
Please do not reply to this email. This inbox is not monitored.
Renunciation of U.S. citizenship must 1) be taken in the presence of a
diplomatic or consular officer; 2) be taken outside the United States;
and 3) be in the precise form prescribed by the Secretary of State. It
is an irrevocable action that cannot be reversed. Should you choose to
pursue renunciation of your U.S. citizenship, you will have to complete
form DS-4079 – Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United
States Citizenship and come to the Consulate to sign an “Oath of
Renunciation of the Nationality of the United States” and a “Statement
of Understanding”. These documents form the basis for the Department of
State’s decision regarding the U.S. citizen’s request to renounce
citizenship and are enclosed for your information.Please review these additional documents before scheduling an
appointment: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html> ), Right
of Residence in the U.S. (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html> ), and
Dual Nationality (
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
<http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html> ).On July 13, 2010 the Department of State implemented a fee of $450 for
administrative processing of formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship.
This fee is payable in either U.S. or Canadian dollars or by major
credit card on the day of your appointment.Once you have all forms filled out and you have gathered the required
evidence, please email vancouveracs@state.gov
<mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov> to schedule an appointment. Your email
should indicate that you read this email and that you have filled out
all your required forms and gathered all required supporting
documentation. Please include a contact phone number in your email.IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
If you arrive fully prepared for your appointment, we will likely
process your loss of nationality in one interview. If you do not have
the forms filled out or if you do not have all required original
evidence, you will need to return for a second appointment.At the time of your appointment you must bring:
–Completed and unsigned Form DS4079 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–-Completed Form DS4080 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf> )–Completed Form DS4081 (
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
<http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf> )–Original proof of U.S. citizenship. See this website for information
on proof of U.S. citizenship and requirements for U.S. birth
certificates:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
<http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first> .–Original proof of other citizenship (often a valid Canadian passport).
–Original evidence of name changes, if applicable (usually marriage
certificates of official name change document).–Your NEXUS card, if you have been issued one.
–Your U.S. Social Security Card, if you have one.
–The address of your last residence in the United States.
–Original evidence of your prior expatriating act if you are
documenting a prior relinquishment of U.S. citizenship (usually a
Canadian certificate of citizenship with the date you became a Canadian
citizen). This is not required if you are currently a U.S. citizen
renouncing your U.S. citizenship. Please see this link to learn about
the difference between relinquishment and renunciation (
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
<http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html> ).–$450 for documentation of formal renunciation. We accept cash and
credit cards but do not accept debit or personal checks.Please refer to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) website
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-Statem
ent
<http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8854,-Initial-and-Annual-Expatriation-State
ment> for information on U.S. federal tax form 8854 “Initial and Annual
Expatriation Information Statement”.Should you have any questions please send an e-mail to
vancouveracs@state.gov. <mailto:vancouveracs@state.gov.%20> “
Note Nov. 2013: No major changes since original posting, but for an update, see E hockin’s comment below regarding modification to this s/he received in November.
Accounting firms will always be more interested in not crossing the IRS than in serving their client.
Also, telling a client that he doesn’t have to file anything isn’t the best way for an accounting firm to generate revenue. Have you ever heard of a car salesman who tells customers that they should keep their old car rather than buy a new one?
@Tricia Moon “We have heard of people who were clearly not US Persons, being put into OVDI for example, by very well-known firms (who could not possibly justify such conduct). It is hard to fathom why they would risk their reputations and make themselves liable to be sued for such lack of judgement. I presume they are as arrogant as those at the IRS/State or think they can get away with it. Somewhere down the line, this needs to be exposed and challenged.”
Moodys Gartner (supposed U.S. tax law experts featuring our “friend” Roy Berg) is repeatedly touring western Canada, putting on renunciation seminars to drum up business for themselves.
I attended one of the first of these seminars, and during his presentation I specifically asked Berg about those who relinquished decades earlier. Additionally, someone else in attendance was livid because U.S. consulate staff had told her decades ago she had irrevocably lost U.S. citizenship by taking Canadian.
Moodys/Roy Berg did not even acknowledge that there was such a thing as relinquishment. The resolute reply was that if the U.S. today would see you as a citizen and you don’t want to be but can’t prove you aren’t, the only option is to get tax compliant and renounce.
So exposing what Moodys/Berg are up to is easy… they do it themselves before crowded rooms full of people over and over, with no apparent worry about their reputation. The hard part is to effectively issue the challenge.
@Shovel
Thank you for posting this comment. Unfortunately for other audiences, past or future, there may not be people present who are as well-informed as you. It is curious that relinquishment was not discussed, nor offered as an option, Particularly when someone mentioned they had been told by the State Dept. that their actions had produced that result. Certainly the State Dept understands the law properly(then and now), as we have evidence of many who have done just that over the last three years. The “problem” is clearly that the IRS does not seem to understand it.
This is one of the advantages those who attend one of John Richardson’s Solving US Citizenship Problems – Information Session have. This is where he starts in the discussion of what “US Persons” need to be aware of. It is unfortunate other presenters do not seem to do this.
As far as I understand the law, if you meet the conditions of the law at the time, you can relinquish. It is not a matter of opinion. I suppose it is one thing to risk a reputation and quite another to risk being sued.
“Can’t prove you aren’t” (ridiculous in the first place)….in many cases, the most prevalent reason being taking Canadian citizenship (or others, at least in the 60’s, etc) is all that is required. Even FATCA/IGA allows for a “reasonable alternative.” (to a CLN). I would consider that as a clear indication the distinction can be made and one of the CDN, dated, proof-of-citizenship documents (not a passport) should be enough.
@Tokyo Rose
I understand your comment. However, professionals are required to live up to a standard of ethics. When they do not, particularly in this type of situation which is being discussed on line in many, many places, they may find it is not so easy to ignore this requirement.
“Also, telling a client that he doesn’t have to file anything isn’t the best way for an accounting firm to generate revenue. Have you ever heard of a car salesman who tells customers that they should keep their old car rather than buy a new one?”
I was a realtor at one point in my life. My manager didn’t like it much, but when I’d qualify a client, I’d tell them if at this stage in the game, that they were pretty much over-extended in terms of financing and equity leverage that they’d serve themselves better by waiting and saving up a proper downpayment, even if it cost me a sale. I never liked the 5% down CMHC financing. Too easy to get into a nasty situation in a market downturn which we are well overdue for one.
The BIG day finally came! I relinquished Sept. 11, 2014 and just got my CLN in the mail today. Free at last!! Now the 8854 form and I’m done with those clowns. What a relief. Just call me Johnny Canuck!
@ John Johnson (aka Johnny Canuck)
Congratulations! Always nice to read about a CLN arriving. I hope you’ll contribute to the Consulate Report. It’s helpful to know how long it’s currently taking to get consulate appointments and to receive CLNs.
Congrats Johnny!
@Wonderful news to start my day here in Switzerland Johnny. Congratulations!