Democracy Day on the Danforth – featuring
special guest NDP Leader Tom Mulcair
Bring your questions and ideas for remaking our democracy.
Starts: September 19th, 2013 – 6:30pm
Ends: September 19th, 2013 – 8:30pm
Where: Auditorium, Eastminster United Church,
310 Danforth Avenue
near Chester TTC Station
As mentioned above, I was able to ask a question on Fatca to Mulcair. McQuaig was not there.
I started out by apologizing that my question was a bit unrelated to the topic (Mulcair responded that he would do his best to reply) and then I explained that many long-time NDP supporters are upset and disappointed with the NDP because 1) Linda McQuaig (I did mention her name) has come out in strong support for FATCA, which the US wants to impose on Canada; and 2) Mulcair has been silent on this issue which affects our rights etc.
I then asked whether he can confirm today that he does not support FATCA.
Mulcair’s response was that the NDP caucus has to meet and spend some time talking about and “considering” FATCA first before reaching any decision. Blaze is right–Mulcair should have sorted out this issue long ago.
Decided not to ask follow-up question but the fellow next to me, a very long-time NDP supporter who I had spoken to about FATCA, then exclaimed out loud (I feel passionately) “But isn’t it a matter of Canadian sovereignty?” This absolutely perfect comment should have embarrassed Mulcair and all NDP supporters at the meeting.
From chatting with my seatmates, who were all committed people, some felt (before my question) that they were uncertain of Mulcair’s positions on issues. None had any understanding of FATCA but when I explained asked: “Why would Canada ever agree to FATCA?”
I believe that I converted two seatmates, and feel that if a poll were taken in that room all (except Mulcair) would be opposed to FATCA. Probably, many are now wondering why Mulcair did not provide a reasoned response to my question.
Because I was able to ask a question as an “NDP supporter”, I did not feel that it was appropriate to leave literature. Had I not asked a question, I would have passed out literature at the door–not inside.
I enjoyed chatting with my seatmates, who were all friendly committed people, and who expressed interest in what I had to say about FATCA —but after Mulcair’s response, I would not vote NDP.
There were at least three IBS supporters at the meeting.
Thank you very much to the attendees and observers for trying to get a clear answer on where the federal NDP and Leader Mulcair stand.
Which leader will be the most transparent and open?
‘Mulcair vows to fight Harper government secrecy’
The Canadian Press Posted: Apr 29, 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mulcair-vows-to-fight-harper-government-secrecy-1.1162660
We need to get a similar clarity from the Liberals;
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/trudeau-harper-seen-as-polar-opposites-politically-mulcair-squeezed-poll-221664321.html
The very least a true democracy demands is that issues as significant, binding and life altering, as FATCA, that will affect Canadian citizens and residents for generations now and to come must be discussed and decided in an open democratic public forum. Not decided in some backroom, with the CBA and financial institutions lobbying and being updated on FATCA negotiations all along, while the very Canadian individuals, citizens, taxpayers and voters who would be most injured and burdened by it are stonewalled and ignored by the Canadian politicians who are deciding our fate without consultation, discussion or public debate.
For shame.
@badger, Sigh. It is unbelievably sad.
@Badger
Let us not forget Megan Leslie NPD Nova Scoatia and Hoang Mai, Brossard Québec.
@Em: “All this about NDP not having a position on FATCA” is about Thomas Mulcair. Until he was elected leader, NDP was strongly opposed to FATCA. Many spoke out about it. Don Davies wrote to Flaherty, as did several others. Hoang Mai presented a huge number of questions in Parliament.
Don Davies called me personally. His riding is 3000 miles from mine. The B.C. caucus issued a paper in opposition to FATCA and posted it on line. No one has been able to find it for a long time.
What changed? Thomas Mulcair became the leader.
Jack would be rolling over in his grave at this betrayal. I imagine people like Libby Davies, Don Davies, Paul Dewar, Craig Scott and others are none too happy.
In terms of the Liberals, I think Pierre would be turning over in his grave too at his son is silent while the American elephant tries to stomp all over the Canadian Charter. He seems more concerned about legalizing marijuana than he does protecting Canada and Canadians.
We need to get out there wherever Mulcair and Trudeau will be making an appearance and make our voices known.
If Flaherty gets a good deal for us in whatever agreement is signed, we have to let the NDP and Liberals know they deserted us in our time of need.
All my friends are rolling on the floor in gales of laughter whenever they hear me cheering on a former member of Mike Harris’ Cabinet. He hasn’t been as strong recently as he was initially, but I think he is still our best hope. We need to keep on this case too.
Thanks so very much, IRSCompliantForever, for attending and posing in such a way your two-part question, highlighting that Linda McQuaig is a strong supporter of FATCA and that Mr. Mulcair has been silent on FATCA which affects the rights of many, many Canadians, then holding his feet to the fire, asking him to confirm whether or not he does support FATCA. Are we to believe they have not yet talked about and considered FATCA? We know better than that!
I hope everyone caught the exclamation of your seat-mate regarding Canada’s sovereignty! Your questions achieved more awareness of FATCA and certainly put question marks into the minds of the attendees as to why Mr. Mulcair could not be forthright in his answers to you.
Thanks to all three IBS supporters for taking the time to attend!!
My thanks to the 3 Brocketeers who faced the fence-sitting Mulcair on our behalf and to Blaze for her latest piece in The Money Guide (my comment there is in moderation).
It certainly appears to me that the NDP had a position and then Mulcair came along and disabled their GPS.
@Greenwood, and Blaze, those are good reminders. It is true. Several of us have received very helpful and clear statements against FATCA from several individual NDP MPs as well as the BC caucus. Thank you for pointing that out. I have noted several times and several places at IBS the very very pointed, informed and deliberate questions that NDP MP H. Mai http://hoangmai.ndp.ca/ posed in Parliament. He is to be recognized for that, as well as the very clear and comprehensive information that used to be on Denise Savoie’s site (though no longer an MP), plus the whole BC NDP caucus and several others across Canada, who have been very forthright on FATCA and the extraterritorial CBT assault on Canadian citizens and residents. I can’t remember all the names, and do not want to overlook any that should be thanked, like for ex. Jean Crowder http://jeancrowder.ndp.ca/jeans-column-on-the-u-s-foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca-for-the-cowichan-valley-citizen-september-2011
Here is a copy of the October 14, 2011 letter from Don Davies NDP MP signed by the NDP BC caucus and addressed to Minister and MP Baird; http://people.stu.ca/~hunt/ustaxinfo/davies.pdf which also mentions FATCA specifically as well as the FBAR and the rest of the aggressive and abusive US extraterritorial tax grab and crusade against those deemed to be ‘US taxable persons’ in Canada and around the rest of the globe.
The members and representatives of the NDP who have spoken out strongly against FATCA need to be made aware of the non position their “leader” took tonight. You’re right Jack Layton would never do this. Maybe this guy is an Obama plant. After all he imported “help” from the dems which of itself is a disgusting thing to do. What a horrible thing to have happen after the great legacy of Jack Layton.
@Atticus
I agree with you…I know I am truly so disappointed in my own MP..He seems to be a puppet. I do not like Mulcair….I am also extremely disappointed with Trudeau. His father was honorable and would not let the Americans lead him by the nose. but his son is a different story.
I am finding it unbelievable that hope may be only with the PCs…but whoever can get rid of FATCA in CANADA gets my vote.
“Here is a copy of the October 14, 2011 letter from Don Davies NDP MP signed by the NDP BC caucus and addressed to Minister and MP Baird; http://people.stu.ca/~hunt/ustaxinfo/davies.pdf which also mentions FATCA specifically as well as the FBAR and the rest of the aggressive and abusive US extraterritorial tax grab and crusade against those deemed to be ‘US taxable persons’ in Canada and around the rest of the globe.”
Great digging, Badger! How I wish the date on that letter would be 2013. It shows that back in 2011 the NDP was right on target and today they are just dodging the bullet. Gotta keep ’em in our sights and persuade them to align themselves firmly on the right side of the FATCA issue, as they did in the beginning. That is an excellent letter MP Davies put together (signed by 11 other thoughtful NDP MPs too).
Dear Mr. Mulcair:
It was a pleasure meeting you last night in Toronto-Danforth as part of Democracy Week. I applaud your commitment to Proportional Representation and your efforts to implement it.
I must say I was shocked to hear — in response to a question from the audience — that you were not prepared to state a position on FATCA and that the caucus had not discussed it. I would draw to your attention that numerous NDP members had stated positions on this issue in the past.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/09/19/thomas-mulcair-in-toronto-danforth-tonight/
I hope — as a long-time and fervent NDP supporter that you are prepared to stand up for me and my family as well as close to one million Canadian citizens whose welfare is threatened by this legislation.
I look forward to hearing from you and the caucus concerning this matter.
malcolm.allen@parl.gc.ca,
charlie.angus@parl.gc.ca,
niki.ashton@parl.gc.ca,
alex.atamanenko@parl.gc.ca,
Robert.Aubin@parl.gc.ca,
Paulina.Ayala@parl.gc.ca,
Tyrone.Benskin@parl.gc.ca,
dennis.bevington@parl.gc.ca,
Denis.Blanchette@parl.gc.ca,
Lysane.Blanchette-Lamothe@parl.gc.ca,
Francoise.Boivin@parl.gc.ca,
Charmaine.Borg@parl.gc.ca,
Alexandre.Boulerice@parl.gc.ca,
Marjolaine.Boutin-Sweet@parl.gc.ca,
Tarik.Brahmi@parl.gc.ca,
Guy.ca,ron@parl.gc.ca,
Andrew.ca,sh@parl.gc.ca,
chris.charlton@parl.gc.ca,
Sylvain.Chicoine@parl.gc.ca,
Robert.Chisholm@parl.gc.ca,
Francois.Choquette@parl.gc.ca,
olivia.chow@parl.gc.ca,
david.christopherson@parl.gc.ca,
Ryan.Cleary@parl.gc.ca,
joe.comartin@parl.gc.ca,
Raymond.Cote@parl.gc.ca,
jean.crowder@parl.gc.ca,
nathan.cullen@parl.gc.ca,
don.davies@parl.gc.ca,
libby.davies@parl.gc.ca,
Anne-Marie.Day@parl.gc.ca,
paul.dewar@parl.gc.ca,
Pierre.DionneLabelle@parl.gc.ca,
fin.donnelly@parl.gc.ca,
Rosane.DoreLefebvre@parl.gc.ca,
Matthew.Dube@parl.gc.ca,
linda.duncan@parl.gc.ca,
Pierre-Luc.Dusseault@parl.gc.ca,
RuthEllen.Brosseau@parl.gc.ca,
Mylene.Freeman@parl.gc.ca,
Randall.Garrison@parl.gc.ca,
Rejean.Genest@parl.gc.ca,
Jonathan.Genest-Jourdain@parl.gc.ca,
Alain.Giguere@parl.gc.ca,
yvon.godin@parl.gc.ca,
claude.gravelle@parl.gc.ca,
Sadia.Groguhe@parl.gc.ca,
Dan.Harris@parl.gc.ca,
jack.harris@parl.gc.ca,
Sana.Hassainia@parl.gc.ca,
carol.hughes@parl.gc.ca,
bruce.hyer@parl.gc.ca,
Pierre.Jacob@parl.gc.ca,
peter.julian@parl.gc.ca,
Matthew.Kellway@parl.gc.ca,
Francois.Lapointe@parl.gc.ca,
Jean-Francois.Larose@parl.gc.ca,
Alexandrine.Latendresse@parl.gc.ca,
Helene.Laverdiere@parl.gc.ca,
Helene.LeBlanc@parl.gc.ca,
megan.leslie@parl.gc.ca,
Laurin.Liu@parl.gc.ca,
Hoang.Mai@parl.gc.ca,
wayne.marston@parl.gc.ca,
pat.martin@parl.gc.ca,
brian.masse@parl.gc.ca,
irene.mathyssen@parl.gc.ca,
Elaine.Michaud@parl.gc.ca,
AnneMinh-Thu.Quach@parl.gc.ca,
Christine.Moore@parl.gc.ca,
Dany.Morin@parl.gc.ca,
Isabelle.Morin@parl.gc.ca,
Marc-Andre.Morin@parl.gc.ca,
Marie-Claude.Morin@parl.gc.ca,
thomas.mulcair@parl.gc.ca,
Pierre.Nantel@parl.gc.ca,
Peggy.Nash@parl.gc.ca,
Jamie.Nicholls@parl.gc.ca,
Jose.Nunez-Melo@parl.gc.ca,
Annick.Papillon@parl.gc.ca,
Claude.Patry@parl.gc.ca,
Eve.Peclet@parl.gc.ca,
Manon.Perreault@parl.gc.ca,
Francois.Pilon@parl.gc.ca,
john.rafferty@parl.gc.ca,
Mathieu.Ravignat@parl.gc.ca,
Francine.Raynault@parl.gc.ca,
Jean.Rousseau@parl.gc.ca,
Romeo.Saganash@parl.gc.ca,
Jasbir.Sandhu@parl.gc.ca,
denise.savoie@parl.gc.ca,
Djaouida.Sellah@parl.gc.ca,
Jinny.Sims@parl.gc.ca,
Rathika.Sitsabaiesan@parl.gc.ca,
Lise.St-Denis@parl.gc.ca,
Kennedy.Stewart@parl.gc.ca,
peter.stoffer@parl.gc.ca,
Mike.Sullivan@parl.gc.ca,
glenn.thibeault@parl.gc.ca,
Philip.Toone@parl.gc.ca,
Jonathan.Tremblay@parl.gc.ca,
Nycole.Turmel@parl.gc.ca,
Way to go Joe! It’s great how so many IBS mosquitoes have been relentlessly buzzing recently. Let’s keep it up!
By the way, are you the same Joe who many months ago thought people at IBS were suffering from some sort of psychologically contagious, group-mentality, over-reaction to the dangers of the whole FATCA thing?….just wondering if you still feel the same way.
Probably yes, I still think that this cannot happen here… but do want to make sure. 🙂
Thank you Joe.
@Joe
Yes, much thanks. The cynic in me thinks that the NDP will tailor it’s response to whatever Harper’s going to do, whether it’s in defiance or support of FATCA.
I despise the NDP for even considering adopting a campaign that involves duping the Canadian people, just as Americans been duped by Obama. Watch the art involved in the ‘mini-dupe’ due to the difference in length of time Canadians have to be brainwashed vs Americans.
I’ve posted on Joe’s new thread today what I think about Mulcair’s reply so I won’t repeat it here.
Thanks so much Badger for finding the PDF of the BC caucus letter in October 2011. I now remember I’d downloaded that letter from Denise Savoie’s website and still have it, had forgotten until I tried to download from your link into my FATCA folder and Windows reminded me I already have it.
I suggest it would be worthwhile to check all those signatures against Joe’s list of current MPs above, and send them an email reminding them of what they signed nearly two years ago, including a copy of IRSCompliantForever’s report above of what happened at that meeting. Then ask them please to stand up for themselves and for us in caucus when this comes up.
I’m going to do that. I’ll mention to them that I’ve been an NDP supporter for 40 years now, and that I’ve pretty-much decided to abandon the NDP because of this waffling and will abandon them if the party doesn’t take a forthright stand on this issue, as the BC caucus had done.
PS please, others should also write emails to the BC caucus. It will have more impact if it’s more than one of us doing this. Maybe also make a PDF of Lynne’s Financial Post article and append it to your email, calling it to their attention.
If (please, not) McQuaig wins the by-election and gets into caucus, the BC caucus need to have some spine-stiffening and additional ammunition to hand when she starts shooting off her big mouth in the meeting. Or when Mulcair starts parroting his master’s voice from the US …
Here’s the BC dozen less Denise Savoie (retired). Schubert’s suggestion is to send them a copy of their 2011 letter and ask that they strongly advocate for this in caucus. That letter again is: http://people.stu.ca/~hunt/ustaxinfo/davies.pdf — Good idea! I’m on it.
don.davies@parl.gc.ca
alex.atamanenko@parl.gc.ca
jean.crowder@parl.gc.ca
nathan.cullen@parl.gc.ca
libby.davies@parl.gc.ca
fin.donnelly@parl.gc.ca
Randall.Garrison@parl.gc.ca
peter.julian@parl.gc.ca,
Jasbir.Sandhu@parl.gc.ca
Jinny.Sims@parl.gc.ca
Kennedy.Stewart@parl.gc.ca
Is there any data to support what party duals are most likely to support?
I’ve tweeted several NDP members today. Here is one of the tweets I sent, a reply I just received from Hoang Mai and my reply to him.
Either caucus neglected to tell Mulcair they already have a position on FATCA or Mulcair neglected to tell them they don’t. This could get interesting!
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze 2h
@DonDavies @PeggyNash @hoangmai_npd @FBoivinNDP @FBoivin Would @ThomasMulcair NDP b silent if France tried 2 #FATCA dual Cdn-French citizens?
Hoang Mai @hoangmai_npd 23m
@LynneBlaze we’ve asked questions, we’re not getting answers frm gvt http://openparliament.ca/debates/2012/3/14/hoang-mai-1/only/ …
@DonDavies @peggynash @fboivin @ThomasMulcair
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze 5m
@hoangmai_npd @DonDavies @peggynash @fboivin That is old. @ThomasMulcair silent. Last night said no NDP position on #FATCA
View conversation
.
@bubblebustin
I very much doubt there are any reliable data on which party duals are most likely to support. Dual US-Canadian citizens are spread throughout the country, so it would probably only be a national polling organization that would be appropriate to ask the question. Pollsters rarely ask specialized questions unless someone is paying them to do so; I can’t think of anyone with the money who would be interested. More problematic, most national polls only get a thousand or so respondents. The percentage of Canadian residents who are dual citizens (or even US-only citizens) is so small, that the number of respondents saying “yes I’m a dual” would be so small as to render their answer to the question “which party would you vote for if the federal election were held today” pretty-much uninterpretable. The sampling error for responses based on such small numbers would be huge, likely making the actually tally in that survey no more accurate than random numbers would be.
Unless I’ve missed some seminal country-wide study of US residents and immigrants to Canada in the past few years. Possible, but I’d think I’d have heard about it from someone by now.
So your guess is as good as mine. I used to think US immigrants at least were more likely to support the Liberals or NDP, but that’s because I came up during the Vietnam War when that very likely was true, as a big chunk of immigrants from the US came up here the same time I did, for those reasons. However that wave of immigration petered out probably shortly after 1975 (fall of Saigon) which was 38 years ago. Almost none of the US immigrants I’ve spoken with in the past two years, who came up after 1975, told me they came here for US political or war reasons. In which case they’re more likely to include people more likely to support the Conservatives than I think was the case during “my” wave of immigration. And I have no basis for even guessing about Green support among US immigrants.
Thanks @Schubert1975
I would agree with you how the profile of the US emigrant has changed over the last few decades. If we were to speculate that Americans move to Canada more for economic reasons than political ones today, we might assume that they’d be more conservative, especially if they’re fleeing due to the effects of the current US administration’s policies.
In Alberta and to a lesser extent British Columbia there is a long history of people moving into Canada to work in the oil and gas industry from places like Oklahoma and Texas going back to the 1940s. My guess is these people would tend to lean Conservative but perhaps if anything that is due to the prevailing political sentiment in the BC interior and Alberta.