Does anyone know of cases where “US persons” at risk from the IRS have run into trouble entering the US? Have any of you had a bad experience?
The last time I entered the US was nearly three years ago and I was seriously hassled at the border crossing (we were driving) because I did not have a US passport. I have not dared try to enter the US since then. I do know a few people who seem to have come and gone without any questions asked.
Thank you.
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@Polly
Sounds infinitely preferable to turkey and pumpkin pie!
Dallas
@Heidi
Honestly? I get these nostalgic moments when turkey and STUFFING and some pumpkin pie would do me just fiiiiiiiine! Sadly. I also miss caesar salads ( a good one), pecan pie, and cheese cake with graham cracker crust. WHY can’t one buy graham crackers in Europe? Doesn’t anybody like them? I love the taste.
@Polly
Yes, I was a naturalised US citizen and had never heard of Thanksgiving until I arrived to work there for 1yr sabbatical back in the 70’s’!.
I find the menu a little too heavy but have fond memories of Thanksgiving spent with friends, some of whom have now passed. My kids were born there as duals but still live and work in the US and carry on the tradition.
@Heidi
Must be hard to have your kids so far away.
I moved to Europe as a child.
I think we might be around the same age. Retired?
Maybe we can meet for a good Wiener Schnitzel one day – after all the holidays!
Yes, retired. I always intended to retire back ‘home’ after my one year in the US somehow turned into 30+. No regrets except leaving kids behind.
Would be great to have a Swiss/Brock get together, hopefully when this is all resolved.
yes- would it all be resolved. sigh
“I get these nostalgic moments when turkey and STUFFING and some pumpkin pie would do me just fiiiiiiiine!”
So visit Canada on the second Monday in October.
“I also miss […] cheese cake with graham cracker crust. WHY can’t one buy graham crackers in Europe?”
In Europe you have to settle for crackers that are 1/28 of an ounce, because the metric system … um, wait a minute. The UK moved out of Europe but the US elected a new litre, and … OK I give up, metric is too confusing.
@NormanDiamond
There is also a german version of Thanksgiving- usually they serve goose though.
Not a personal experience, but informative about how even a US citizen entering the US on a US passport (as the US requires) can face abrogation of their rights;
“.Maria Abi-Habib, a reporter for The Wall Street Journal, recounted a similar episode in a Facebook post in July after she was detained at Los Angeles International Airport and asked to turn over her cellphones. The request was eventually withdrawn after Ms. Abi-Habib, a United States citizen traveling on an American passport, objected and asked to call lawyers for her newspaper…”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/business/media/canadian-journalists-detention-at-us-border-raises-press-freedom-alarms.html?_r=0
And this describes the treatment of a Canadian journalist covering a US news story for the CBC;
“……. Mr. Ou was assigned by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to cover the Standing Rock protests as part of a project on indigenous health care in North America. He said the agents knew he intended to cover the protests, which have prompted the police to use rubber bullets, pepper spray and water cannons against hundreds of people.
His experience at the border led to an “awful realization,” Mr. Ou said: “That wall of naïveté that I had about the freedom of the press in the U.S. kind of shattered at that moment.”
from ‘Canadian Journalist’s Detention at U.S. Border Raises Press Freedom Alarms’
By DANIEL VICTOR DEC. 2, 2016 New York Times
Coming to Canadian sovereign soil near you, armed US agents who can detain Canadians on Canadian soil;
“……..Eventually, preclearance is expected to become a requirement at every train and bus station with U.S. bound routes in the country, and could extend to car travel as well. The agreements also allow U.S. customs agents to carry weapons within Canada, question people, and detain, but not arrest, them………..”…………….
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/12/10/us-congress-passes-preclearance-bill-expanding-it-to-train-travel.html
At this point in time, entering the US is guaranteed to be a bad experience; the only question is exactly how bad. I hate going down there and I only go to visit my family. Its always a big relief to finally return to Canadian soil.
Little snippets of our sovereignty are being given up on a regular basis. FATCA, of course, was a very large chunk. If the present trend re: our loss of sovereignty continues, eventually it won’t matter which side of the border we are on because it will all be uniformly bad. Lots of Americans already regard Canada more as the 51st state than as a separate, sovereign country. I don’t understand why our stupid Canadian politicians don’t seem to get it. No matter what Joe Biden says, the US is not Canada’s friend and never will be. Their only interest is what’s in it for them. Trump is crystal clear on that point.
“Their only interest is what’s in it for them. Trump is crystal clear on that point.”
I hope he gets his walls built.
@badger
what do you suppose will happen if an armed US Border guard “detains” a Canadian in Canada?
Will an unarmed Canadian border guard arrest such a Canadian on behalf of the U.S.?
And for what?
‘what do you suppose will happen if an armed US Border guard “detains” a Canadian in Canada?’
3 days of administrative leave.
No wait, that’s for murdering not for detaining.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/28/us-border-agents-permission-shoot-people-mexico
@Tricia, how could it possibly be constitutional and congruent with our Charter for the agent of a foreign government – the US – to detain a Canadian citizen or PR on Canadian soil? How could Parliament legally agree to that even if it passes?
The Canadian enabling Bill C-23 Preclearance Act, 2016 ‘An Act respecting the preclearance of persons and goods in Canada and the United States’ is moving towards enactment with a final reading and vote coming up (I think on Thursday) http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=8362244 . It allows US armed agents to detain Canadian citizens (as well as PRs and others) on Canadian SOVEREIGN AUTONOMOUS soil. Some Canadian lawyers have objected on a variety of grounds http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/6140/Preclearance-bill-raises-concerns.html . And we’ll pay for it, as Finance Minister Bill Morneau said “……Canada will pay for U.S. customs infrastructure on Canadian soil…..” ( http://globalnews.ca/news/2687876/us-canada-border-preclearance-bill-to-be-introduced-in-spring-chrystia-freeland/ ).
The ACLU has already raised important issues on behalf of a Canadian journalist seeking to enter the US from Vancouver with a Nexus pass https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/does-what-happened-journalist-us-canada-border-herald-darker-trend http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.3874554/canadian-photojournalist-detained-for-hours-refused-entry-to-u-s-1.3874563 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38187258 .
Did the Sunny Libs object on that Canadian’s behalf and protect his rights? No.
Trudeau has taken up the CON Beyond the Border provisions from Harper, and has personally pressed Obama to pass enabling legislation in the US – which just cleared Congress and now requires only Obama’s signature. Does the US version empower armed Canadian agents to detain Americans on American soil as part of a pre-clearance to enter Canada? And Obama has promised to protect civil liberties, but we already know how worthless his and the US word and promises are – for ex. this is what they already do to Americans on US soil https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone .
@ badger
“… how could it possibly be constitutional and congruent with our Charter for the agent of a foreign government – the US – to detain a Canadian citizen or PR on Canadian soil? How could Parliament legally agree to that even if it passes?”
Thanks for all that info ammo. I share your concern about this and commented yesterday (in a much less comprehensive way than you just did) on a recent G&M article. Since the FATCA fiasco I have grown special nerve endings which tingle when a sovereignty issue comes up.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-congress-passes-canadian-border-bill-to-enact-long-awaited-reforms/article33293468/comments/?ord=1
My comment:
Glad to see your G&M comment @Embee. US incursions into Canada continue – with active aiding and abetting by our own federal government, whether it be CON or FibLIBs. Only fools and traitors would let a foreign country creep over the border and ‘detain’ its own citizens and PRs – it won’t stop there…..
Oh Canada, who will stand on guard for thee? Not the federal CONS nor the Sunny gLibs.
I’m not sure I understand the difference between “detain” and “arrest”. By “arrest” do they mean “charge with a crime?” How long can they “detain” a person – until a writ of habeas corpus is obtained or just until the person misses their flight?
I don’t travel to the US any more either, although I still have relatives there. There are so many reasons not to go. Even before the Trumpeter they have erected a virtual wall that keeps many of us out. As He would say, “Sad.”
My wife and I flew into Seattle together. Wife entered on a US passport, me on my Canadian passport. Customs agent asked my wife what the nature of her trip to Canada had been. Her reply– “Trip? Um, I live there.” No questions or comments beyond that. My passport, as per usual, was stamped with a visitor visa. He asked my wife if she wanted her US passport stamped to note the entry. She politely declined. After that, we got a “Welcome” and were waived on.
BC Doc (DIY relinquished)
@ AnonAnon
I don’t travel at all now (short local day trips only) so I’m not familiar with travel procedures. (I looked up airport security arrangements one time. I only got halfway through the instructions before I said no way — not doing that!) I travelled in my younger years, when it was fun and easy.
My guess is that detain means stop or delay from entering the USA. If a crime is involved my other guess is they would call on a Canadian authority to arrest. My greatest worry is that the real goal is to meld Canada, USA and Mexico (the NAU or North American Union). I definitely don’t want that. I’d rather have a wall, even if Canada has to pay for it. Another thing I find unnerving is the USA’s 100 mile “no rights zone” which encases its perimeter. To be stopped and questioned about your citizenship in your own country seems outrageous to me — nothing but a control freak’s paradise.
@BCdoc your prescription is very appropriate for the disease.
With each visa stamp I too receive its another brick in the wall affirming I am no longer on the plantation. Me thinks state should let you redeem twenty stamps for a con.
Just got back from my trip to California to visit family. No problems entering the US on my Australian passport with ESTA. I entered the US at LAX (first thing in the morning, the plane sat at the gate 20 minutes before they could open the doors at 6am). In fact, with my Australian passport they sent me through the TSA pre-check lane on 3 of my 4 domestic flights (that meant I didn’t have to remove my shoes and could go through the metal detector instead of the body scanner).
Crossed into the USA on a recent Saturday morning…the first day off for all the school kids in Ontario as the elementary/high school March break begins. I would have thought that this would be a very busy day at the border. We all remember many families even driving down to Florida for the March break.
Before approaching the border, my wife asked if she could drive through (OK by me) as she thought that I might be construed as a “person of colour” although I never thought of myself that way (half Mediterranean background, and olive skinned). Well THAT never happened before.
I’m pleased to report that there was absolutely NOBODY else at this crossing. This is the first time in a long time that there was absolutely ZERO line up at the 2 open lanes. We just drove right up. It was interesting how we were “randomly selected” for an inspection, but maybe not so after my wife (won’t get into detail) commented on her accused US citizenship. 15 minutes later, we were on our way, with the people inside the building actually being friendly (I don’t think they ever inspected our vehicle) and no further interrogatioin. Also interesting was that during these 15 minutes, absolutely NOBODY else who was a traveller entered the building.
Once down in the US, amongst many others I met, there were 2 people who were immigrants to the US (India and Peru) who when they found out I was Canadian told me (in almost identical language) that they heard many people were heading to Canada in recent days as this is where they wanted to immigrate to, and that life was good there and it was NOT the USA This was for sure heart warming, and really interesting. I never heard this before on numerous visits during the last 3 decades.
Also, once back home, all kinds of people are telling me they will no longer enter the US, since they just don’t want to deal with all the current crap. We’ve all read about the Girl Guides and the Toronto School board cancelling all US trips, but here at the street level, people around me are sounding the same. In fact, before we left, we offered another younger friend a chance to join us, but her family refused to let her go, citing strange US laws and recent behaviour.
Does anyone else here have any anecdotal evidence of USA evasion going on amongst the Canadian population? I’d be interested to hear.
We should get Michael Moore to make a documentary about CBT & FATCA.
No, PierreD not yet, but I live an an area frequented by tourists in the summer so will be watching for an increase in US license plates. I also noticed that when Canadian dollar dropped in value, many Canadians chose to vacation close to home. Perhaps exchange rates combined with uneasiness about travelling in the US might keep more Canadians at home this summer.
On a somewhat related note, I went to a dinner party as part of a group who has and will continue meeting with our MP, Pam Goldsmith Jones over Liberal policies in general. Over half the people there were current and former Americans. Don’t know what to make of that – either the American culture encourages activism, or a cross section of residents in our area reveals a lot of Americans live here.