Does anyone know of cases where “US persons” at risk from the IRS have run into trouble entering the US? Have any of you had a bad experience?
The last time I entered the US was nearly three years ago and I was seriously hassled at the border crossing (we were driving) because I did not have a US passport. I have not dared try to enter the US since then. I do know a few people who seem to have come and gone without any questions asked.
Thank you.
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List of United States politicians who have acknowledged cannabis use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_politicians_who_have_acknowledged_cannabis_use
“Cannabis is a drug and, as hemp, a source for fibers, oil and seed. Prior to its prohibition, U.S. politicians known for growing hemp include some of the nation’s Founding Fathers and presidents. Politicians who have admitted to recreational use of the drug during prohibition include mayors, governors, members of the House of Representatives, Senators and presidents.”
“NC” – “Non-Controlled”?
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1237/kw/NC/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ2MTc2ODA5MC9zaWQveU14RGc0UG0%3D
The US is a free country.
The whole country is a constitution-free zone.
When Bill Clinton returned from a trip[*], CBP had to let him inhale because he’s a US citizen. To control him, they should have blcoked him from exhaling.
[* Pun wasn’t intended, but I noticed it while typing.]
Come on all you patriotic homelanders. Inhale to the chief!
Just back from a family reunion in the US. I continue to travel to the US on my Canadian passport– my US passport has a few years to go before it lapses. My spouse and minor child’s US passports have now lapsed– they won’t be renewed. They entered the US for the first time on their Canadian passports. No difficulties encountered by any of us– each of our passports received a dated B2 visitor stamp.
It was music to my ears having the Canadian Border Patrol agent say “Welcome home” to me as I cleared the border into Canada.
BC doc your post is music to my ears
Cheers
George
@ Doc
Glad to hear you and your family had no travel problems. Welcome home.
@ Doc
I assume that was car travel as opposed to airline?
I crossed at the end of March for the Easter holiday to visit my very elderly Mom in USA. Using a Canadian passport with USA birthplace and travelling by air, there were no problems. My copy of CLN is always at the ready but no one has ever asked for it. Both Canadian and USA border personnel were courteous and business like at Vancouver, BC and San Francisco, CA airports. Hope it remains that way.
@George, @Ginny– Thanks!
@Ginny: We cleared US customs flying through Seattle. Welcomed back into Canada via Kelowna. My experience travelling to the US for a professional conference back in March was similar. We pre-cleared US customs in Vancouver– that time I was the only one in my family entering on a Canadian passport. Again, no questions about place of birth, potential US citizenship, etc. One aspect of all of this that I find interesting is that the press is interested in reporting on the quarterly renunciation figures as they keep getting larger and larger. The missing story is folks like me and my family who are discreetly exiting out the back door without calling notice to ourselves. In my case, there are six of us (me, spouse, and four children) who certainly won’t be paying $2350USD times six to buy our freedom– we’re walked away and simply say, “See ya.”
@BC_Doc
I am intrigued by your story and impressed by your chutzpah – kudos! I’m in the EU and my relinquishing event is coming up in the not-too-distant future. I wonder what the ramifications would be for me, if I were to self-relinquish at the time of that event, instead of going through the embassy rigamarole (and paying their ridiculous fee). After all, the relinquishing event itself obliterates my US citizenship. I suppose that you are completely willing to never visit the US again, if that should become necessary. I would be happy with never seeing the US again, EXCEPT for my aging mom; it would devastate both of us if it were not possible for me to visit (unfortunately, she can no longer travel). To me, in a sense it seems like they are holding my mom hostage (so that I will pay the ransom of $2350). Also, unfortunately, I registered my kids (back when it seemed to be a “good” thing to do) as US citizens and they have passports.
@ Hard pressed
I believe some self relinquishers have signed an affidavit in front of a lawyer to attest to the fact that they have taken up another citizenship with the full intention of relinquishing their US one. That may suffice in convincing banks that you no longer possess US citizenship if/ when required. Swiss banks want nothing less than a CLN, and I am not sure how other EU countries will act in the future.
Entering the US with a US birthplace is certainly another problem, especially now the new ESTA visa waiver has become so
intrusive, and asks if you have ever held another citizenship. If they don’t find you on record renouncing, they may be difficult as the border agents often do not understand their own rules.
@heidi
Thanks for your reply. If it were only a question of the banks, I think I’d go ahead and self-relinquish. I’m guessing that BC_Doc doesn’t have problems entering the US because he is Canadian. I haven’t heard of any non-Canadian self-relinquishers attempting to enter the US. Yeah, I can’t believe the ESTA visa waiver questions! Crazy, absolutely crazy.
@hardpressed
I think George is a non Canadian self relinquisher but he may have an ambiguous birthplace, but I am sure he will chip in.
@Heidi @Hard Pressed.
Point of clarification……”Self relinquisher” IMO is a poor term. I am an “Undocumented Relinquisher” meaning that I committed a relinquishing act in accordance with 8 US Code thereby losing my US Citizenship and have essentially decided NOT to go any further and get a CLN.
My relinquishment was a decade ago, the US Government recognized my relinquishment in formal correspondence, and my attorney whose billings were in the five figures because of my unique personal situation never mentioned to me anything about a CLN.
I travel solely on a EU Passport.
I have applied for and received a US ESTA and also more recently an ETA from Canada.
My accent is “American” and my EU Passport lists a city for place of birth but not country which is “common” in the EU.
I have entered the USA by air but only through advance clearance outside the USA. I have never had any problems. Each passport stamp is further evidence that I am no longer a US Citizen.
Up to this point I had been a chicken shi_, in going to the USA but having entered enough now I would fly direct if needed.
From the comments section of a Robert Wood article. Important to add, I think:
David Chernin
David Chernin an hour ago
“Be careful. I moved to Israel 9 years ago. I am not wealthy by any means but didn’t see a need to abide by all the paperwork necessary to live here as a US citizen. During the long process of renouncing, at both my required interviews, I inquired if renouncing would affect my getting a visa. I have kids, grandkids and family that I like to visit. Both interviews I was told I would not have a problem. I applied for a visa and was refused due to a misdemeanour arrest 40 years prior. The court issued a 149.00 fine to pay my debt to society and that was that. I thought. I just missed a new grand babies birth and looks like I will miss more as well. If I had it to do all over again. I WOULD. The US is broken badly and I want no part of it.”
REPLYFlagPermalink
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/05/06/many-americans-renounce-citizenship-even-before-president-trump/#3410b81d2b66
@BC Doc….
All I can say is wow “If I had it to do all over again. I WOULD.”
You know what and I am sure brother you would agree, I shed tears for what she has become.
@BC Doc and @George, I could see the USG using past misdemeanors on one’s record as another means of punishing former citizens by banning them from even just visiting. What a crock.
“I could see the USG using past misdemeanors on one’s record as another means of punishing former citizens by banning them from even just visiting.”
They did that to someone trying to enter from Vancouver, right?
For people who aren’t former US citizens, the situation can be the opposite. For example, when the US denied my wife’s applications for B2 visa (tourist), before they illegally granted one of her applications, I corresponded with US embassies to find out what to do. There is a procedure called “waiver of ineligibility” but she wasn’t eligible to apply for a waiver because she hadn’t done anything wrong, she was just born in an unfavoured country. But if she would steal a car, then she could apply for “waiver of ineligibility”.
I suppose former US citizens could apply for a waiver too. If they haven’t broken a law yet, do it now.
@NormanDiamond, exactly. It just seems fairly obvious to me that they will use this as another way to punish former citizens and deter expatriations. They’ll try to screw people one way or another.
@monalisa1776. If they are going to stick it to you no matter what, you might as well NOT be a US citizen as they try to stick you. As I have mentioned before, I now seem to get a lot more respect when entering the US on my Canadian passport than I ever did when I entered as a US citizen.
@Maz57, I see what you mean, but hated being fingerprinted when I enter the US now. I HATE that. They’re just going to find more ways to make things awkward, especially if they can’t easily enforce the Reed Act or pass the proposed Ex-Patriot Act. I am quite confident that many otherwise respectable, law-abiding people could hit possible problems if they try to grill them about past marijuana use. And Heaven Forbid if someone we’re to EVER admit to past drugs use either in an article or blog entry!
Post-renunciation entry stories
I was dual US/EU country citizen (born EU, naturalised US as a child) I renounced US in 2013. Later in 2013 I applied for and was granted ESTA on my EU passport. I visited for a couple of weeks – no problems entering.
One year later – 2014 – I again travelled to the US with a change of flights from one EU country to another before arriving in the US. No problems in the EU. But upon arrival in US I was refused entry and told my ESTA was revoked – I had no idea of why. After a couple of hours of detailed questioning about family background, reasons for visiting etc, I was granted leave to enter (for 3 months even though I had a return ticket for a week later).
I was informed by the border control that I had incorrectly answered a question on the 2013 ESTA application – I had (apparently) been detained/questioned about some substance more than 40 years previously. I had no recollection of it but did know that I had never spent time in prison or paid any fine, but apparently there was some sort of record. I was told that I would have to apply for a B1/B2 visa if I wanted to travel to the US in future. So upon my return to my home (EU) country -I went to the US embassy and applied and was granted the visa.
Recently (2016) I returned from another short family visit to the US. I entered with my EU passport and B1/B2 visa. Once again I was taken aside and questioned (pleasantly enough) about my background, job, travel plans etc. This time for about 20 minutes. The officer stamped a 6 month stay ( with a B1/B2 you can be granted a longer stay than with an ESTA). I asked if I would be “interviewed” on possible future visits to the US and was informed “probably”.
My guess is, that on my 2013 visit with my EU passport, I was fingerprinted (as are all non-US citizens) At that time the information about renunciation may not have been processed into the border control system. The following year – after I had received the CLN – the information had been entered and my fingerprints from 2013 matched up with whatever information had been found in my long-lost past (about which I myself still have no further information).
The first questioning experience in 2014 was quite a shock. All I could do was keep calm and carry on 😉 at one point I did consider asking whether I could get a print-out of the information about my past, but thought it wiser to just answer and not ask questions myself.
When applying for the the visa in 2015, I was asked the same questions both in written and interview form. I still have no precise recollection about what I am recorded for and when, but I did sign the form presented to me by the border control in 2014 – mentioning a specific date and reason, as I was told that I had to sign the form to be allowed to enter the US (all this information came from the information the US authorities had on their computers, but I was never shown it. I got the impression that they were doing some form of cross checking and my answers matched up with their info) I decided not to pursue the matter, as I had been granted a B1/B2.
Whenever I travel to the US, I will have copies of the original “interview” from 2014, my CLN, proof that I have sent all the required IRS/Treasury forms and the 8854 (documented copies of all receipts) I have not had to show them at the border, but who knows what may happen in the future.
So, to make a long-ish story shorter – yes, when you have renounced detailed personal information is kept and cross-matched and available to the border authorities (and probably many other authorities) They go way back in time, and there is no guarantee that what is recorded actually happened – just keep calm and carry on!
Hello Allou … been awhile since you’ve been around (unless I missed something). That’s quite a hassle you are getting for something so long ago and forgotten. Back a couple of decades ago we were passing from the US to Canada and watched in dismay as a poor guy trying to deliver a truckload of bananas was being questioned and questioned by Canadian border agents about a DUI in California 20 years previously. I sure hope those bananas finally got to Edmonton. Anyway glad you eventually passed through the portal but it makes me think the decision I made (long before FATCA) to never go to the USA again was the right one for me.