Does anyone know of cases where “US persons” at risk from the IRS have run into trouble entering the US? Have any of you had a bad experience?
The last time I entered the US was nearly three years ago and I was seriously hassled at the border crossing (we were driving) because I did not have a US passport. I have not dared try to enter the US since then. I do know a few people who seem to have come and gone without any questions asked.
Thank you.
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I’ve found some information about storage of passport data at the border.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/resource/fs-fi/02_05_d_45_e.asp [information on the collecting and storing of travelers’ passport information at the border. Information will be stored for 15 yrs. as of June 30 2014.]
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/26/border-agency-to-keep-canadian-travellers-data-15-years-instead-of-75
http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/a-rare-peek-at-homeland-securitys-files-on-travelers,10313/ [Information has been collected (at least for air travelers) since 1999.]
I’ve also learned that American citizens travelling to U.S. territories such as Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam and American Samoa do not require a passport. But I assume that would be meant for citizens travelling from a U.S. point of departure. Since I’d be entering from Canada I need to find out if I’d be OK travelling to these places on my Canadian passport. I’m unable to find sufficient information on the net so I’m planning to check with my travel agent.
Will keep you posted when I have some more information.
An interesting read, the budget travel link.
And, on the other hand, effective US data collection for other purposes.
No problems at all.
3 crossings in last year . No issues whatsoever. At Pearson the guy never said a word. He just flicked his wrist to tell us to keep moving. In 30 yrs crossing at least 100 times they have mentioned citizenship twice. Both times in a completely unthreatening manner. As in ‘ you could always get a US passport if you choose to.’
Just a note that I had my esta and was asked very little so the experience was positive. I relinquished but never got a cln
Similar to what Calgary411 posted on January 19: A year or two ago my sister entered the US by car for the umpteenth time using her Canadian passport showing a US birthplace and was berated for not having a US passport. She was let in “this time, but next time I won’t let you in”. This was before the Canada-US entry/exit program came into effect, and before FATCA reporting. We can only guess, but my guess is that it will only get worse.
Of course, the problem is always that it depends on the person on duty the day you enter the country. Some examples: I used to make a lot of business trips to the US. Often, I’d get only a question or two (at the Calgary airport) and sent through. Sometimes I’d get the 3rd degree, asking “Are you going to work”, etc. One time after the guy started to question me he noticed my passport and said “Oh, you were born in the US”, stamped my stuff and motioned me through. I asked, “Does that make a difference?”. He said, “Yes, you’re an American”. I didn’t bother to explain that I had given it up long before.
Once I delivered a musician from the UK to the Calgary airport, where he was denied entry to the US to perform because his paperwork wasn’t right. He had a concert to perform in Seattle that evening. We got him on a flight to Vancouver, where he passed US customs without any problem.
“Once I delivered a musician from the UK to the Calgary airport, where he was denied entry to the US to perform because his paperwork wasn’t right. He had a concert to perform in Seattle that evening. We got him on a flight to Vancouver, where he passed US customs without any problem.”
At Calgary airport was he denied entry by a US immigration officer or was he denied boarding by an airline official? London’s mayor Boris Johnson was denied boarding by an airline official, which still resulted in the unfortunate effect of persuading him to get a US passport, but it is not the same as denied entry.
To the best of my understanding, if a US immigration officer denies entry, they have to stamp the guy’s passport. Until he returns to his country of residence and persuades a visa officer to overlook the denial and issue a visa, it should be possible for another US immigration officer (like the one at Vancouver airport) to allow him in.
My wife was denied US tourist visas because US law requires her to immigrate whether or not she wants to. The first US visa officer to reject her visa application illegally failed to stamp her passport. The second US visa officer to reject her visa application properly stamped her passport. The fourth US visa officer proved to me in writing that it’s illegal for any US visa officer to issue a tourist visa to her. Next, the third US visa officer to get a visa application from her illegally issued her a visa but it expired so quickly that she couldn’t use it. Next the fourth US visa officer, the same one who proved to me that he and the third visa officer broke the law, also illegally issured her a visa and she used it. She obeyed the law and left the US after a few weeks, but US visa officers weren’t legally allowed to ler her do so. Of course now I can’t sponsor her for immigration to the US anyway, aside from the fact that we never wanted to.
In comparison, Canadian law doesn’t require my wife to immigrate to Canada, but Canadian visa officers do it as a matter of policy. She only applied once to Canada, and got a rejection stamp in her passport. A different Canadian visa officer promised me that she will never get a tourist visa to Canada, so she didn’t bother applying a second time, and I haven’t been back to Canada since then. I can sponsor her for immigration, but never reached the point where I felt my savings would be enough to live on, so we’re considering retiring in her country instead of mine.
Anyway, when a government official denies entry or denies a visa, the passport is supposed to get stamped.
@Norman,
US immigration, not airline. The “paperwork” was work permits/visas or something similar, and was in fact correct.
My point is just that it’s luck of the draw who you get on shift. Always has been; probably always will be. Reports here of people (with US place of birth on foreign passports) successfully entering the US unmolested ought to imply the tag lines “your mileage may vary”, and “past performance is not indicative of future results”.
Having said that, it’s very helpful that we document individual experiences here to note the trends. Not much else to go on.
‘US immigration, not airline. The “paperwork” was work permits/visas or something similar, and was in fact correct.’
Then US immigration in Calgary had to stamp the denial his passport, and US immigration in Vancouver had to read the stamp and deny him again. He would have to present his correct paperwork with a visa application and get an actual visa before getting in, i.e. no longer eligible for visa waiver.
‘My point is just that it’s luck of the draw who you get on shift.’
Yes, that’s how Deportland got its name. To the best of my understanding, a US citizen got dumped by his Japanese girlfriend, and the US citizen became an immigration inspector in Portland, so lots of innocent Japanese females were denied entry and thereafter have to get visas if they still want to visit the US.
Interesting encounter when crossing into the US by car yesterday.
CBP: Where do you live? (The guy is a young twerp, probably a newby.)
ME: xxxxxxxx (A town in BC)
CBP: Whats the purpose of your trip?
ME: To visit my elderly mother. (He glances at my CDN passport again, evidently noticing my US birthplace.) I see you are a US citizen.
ME: No, I,m not.
CBP: If you were born in the US you are a US citizen.
ME: No, I lost my US citizenship when I became a Canadian.
CBP: Did you appear before a consular officer and renounce your US citizenship?
ME: No.
CBP: Then you are a US citizen because that is the only way you can lose US citizenship.
ME: No, I’m sorry, but that is not the only way you can lose US citizenship.
CBP: Shut off the engine and give me the keys to your car.
ME: (I’m thinking “oh boy, here we go”) as I hand him the keys.
CBP: Walks around the car, looks in the back, thumps the fenders, then returns to the booth.
CBP: OK, You can go now (as he hands me my keys and passport).
The takeaway from all this? I suspect that during his walkabout he was considering the possibility that he was perhaps not the expert on US citizenship law that he thought he was. After my repeated firm denials he effectively conceded that I was not a US citizen and allowed me to enter as a Canadian on my Canadian passport. (No mention of a US passport at any time.)
I am very glad that I stood my ground although I admit I was pretty worried that I was going to be hauled into the back room and waterboarded or whatever they do back there. Hopefully he typed something into to the computer that will reinforce the fact that I am a Canadian, period. I keep a printout of US expatriation law in the glove box just in case I ever need to “educate” them but fortunately I didn’t need to pull it out on this occasion.
@Maz57
Interesting, and strange. Maybe I’ll add a copy of INA 349 to my CLN to carry with me when traveling into or over the US. I think I’d answer “Yes” to the question “did you appear before a consular officer”. But really, a copy of a CLN should end the discussion.
Being a self-relinquisher I don’t have a CLN but I’m not about to allow them to intimidate me into admitting I might be a US citizen. INA 349 is crystal clear and doesn’t even mention a CLN. If I did go to a consulate to apply for a CLN my loss of US citizenship would be back dated to the day before I became a Canadian. Therefore, logically, I cannot now be a US citizen, whether I have a CLN or not. (The US government isn’t necessarily logical, however!)
I’d rather be refused entry and, of course, they have no legitimate reason to do so. Should that happen I would complain to the Canadian government about the ill treatment I received.
I was told by the US border guy last time I entered there the reason why they like you to enter on your US passport is so that you won’t be treated as a visitor. Considering those who have relinquished are now visitors to the US, using your Canadian passport is the absolute appropriate thing to do.
@Maz57 Nicely done. Thank you for posting your account. What you did is what I’ve always planned to do if called out on my place of birth.
@Maz
Maybe he was noting your license plate number?
@Polly: They take a photo of everybody’s license plate number. You can see the camera’s flash as you drive forward towards the booth. My number (if they pay any attention to it at all) is the same number that I have been crossing the border with for many years (on several different vehicles but the same plate). Since becoming a Canadian in late 2012 I have only crossed with a Canadian passport. Before that I only crossed with a US passport because I did not yet have Canadian citizenship or passport.
@Bubblebustin: I love being treated as a visitor, lol! You seem to get more respect! I figure if I somehow got into trouble down there (not bloody likely) at least I might expect some sort of assistance from the Canadian government . They could do nothing if I was admitted as a US citizen.
@BC_DOC: I knew I had to stand firm, but I admit to being very apprehensive as any US border inspection is most definitely a “Constitution Free Zone” I cross fairly regularly (probably once a month on average) and I know from past experience that once in a while things go sideways for no apparent reason. I learned long ago to answer with monosyllables, don’t volunteer information, and, of course, to be truthful. So far, so good.
Some pertinent NEW questions on the ESTA visa waiver application.
https://www.esta-registration.co.uk/esta-application.html
@heidi –
Indeed. “Are you now or have you ever been….”
Thanks for posting this. I wonder if these new questions may be connected with the passport revocation law.
@Iota
I think initially the questions have been inspired by the desire to weed out any ex Iranians and the like .
A colleague of mine (a renounced physician) who was born Iranian but is now solely British thinks she will be denied travel as an ex Iranian who also goes to visit her elderly parents in Iran every year. She can’t even present her medical research papers in the US anymore.
Of course it will also serve to identify any ex Americans with a non US birthplace.
To look on the brighter side, they have dropped the question about moral turpitude. 🙂
@heidi – that’s horrible for your colleague, to be treated as a potential criminal like that.
This whole business is so depressing. It’s not like I’ve ever harboured any illusions about the United States, but I honestly think they’re getting worse and worse, losing all sense of humanity, eyes forever fixed on the bottom line.
“To look on the brighter side, they have dropped the question about moral turpitude. :-)”
🙂
“Smartphone keyboard too small for my arthritic fingers.”
Me too – I use a stylus. My grandsons watch me in disbelief. 🙂
@iota
I wonder if all ex US citizens will now be in for enhanced questioning when entering….
We will have to wait for reports to come in.
They proposed adding “country of birth” to ESTA as far back as 2011. Not sure when it finally got made mandatory.
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/05/16/2011-11952/agency-information-collection-activities-arrival-and-departure-record-forms-i-94-and-i-94w-and
ESTA’s “country of birth” has problems.
If someone was born in Korea before the division, in a location that later became part of North Korea and later became part of South Korea, what is their answer? If someone was born in Korea after the division, in a location that was under control of North Korea at the time of birth but is now under control of South Korea, what is their answer?
If someone was born in the USSR, but their birthplace is now part of Finland, what is their answer?
If someone was born in Puerto Rico (US territory at the time of birth) or American Samoa (US territory at the time of birth) or Marshall Islands (US territory at the time of birth), they get so say so. If someone was born in Saipan (US territory at the time of birth) they get to say US minor outlying islands. If someone was born in Hawaii (US territory at the time of birth[*]) or Canal Zone (US territory at the time of birth[**]) they don’t get to say so.
[* Barrack Obama had a narrow escape.]
[** John McCain didn’t have a narrow escape. He was naturalized at birth by act of Congress, which makes him a 14th Amendment citizen by naturalizing not by being born in the US, so it’s not entirely clear if he was eligible for a certain famous job. But that doesn’t matter here. The question here is what answer to give in an ESTA application.]
@heidi – Wouldn’t they be more likely to stop the person boarding the flight to the US?
It’s been twenty years since I last visited the US, so I’m not familiar with the ESTA system.