Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

For those of us paying attention to Just Me’s look into the future, this was discussed at the G-20 meeting on Friday:

G-20 Pushes for Measures to End Tax Evasion — NYT’s David Jolly

NY Times journalist, David Jolly (as well as NYT’s Brian Knowlton on related stories) — ahead of the pack on reporting the FATCA, DATCA, GATCA scenario. Can’t other journalists see it?

The Group of 20 countries called on Friday for a coordinated effort to stop international tax evasion, urging governments to systematically share bank data.

Finance ministers and central bankers of the G-20, meeting in Washington, said in a communiqué that automatic exchange of tax-relevant bank information should be adopted as the global standard.

Under an automatic exchange, governments would routinely transfer all foreign taxpayers’ data to their home governments, making it far more difficult to hide assets from the tax collector.

The impetus for the new approach is an American law, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, called Fatca, requiring Americans with overseas accounts and non-American financial firms to meet tough financial disclosure requirements. In practice, Fatca conflicts with privacy laws in many countries, so Washington has been working out bilateral deals in which overseas financial institutions share that data first with their own governments for transmission to the Internal Revenue Service in Washington.

20 thoughts on “For those of us paying attention to Just Me’s look into the future, this was discussed at the G-20 meeting on Friday:

  1. Isn’t it ironic how the world’s biggest tax haven so self-righteously leads the charge against tax cheats in other countries? Even the Roman Empire wasn’t that hypocritical.

  2. The G20 works for the good of its corporate masters and the elite 1%. No surprise that this is their stance and even less surprise at where this idea probably originated.

  3. More: http://www.iol.co.za/business/international/g20-may-up-fight-against-tax-evasion-1.1503441

    April 19 2013 at 02:28pm
    By SAPA (South African Press Association)

    Washington – The Group of 20 leading economies could step up the battle against tax evasion using offshore accounts in its meetings Thursday and Friday, officials said.

    The G20 is expected to weigh endorsing a global effort to force banks to automatically share information with countries seeking to tax their nationals holding secret offshore accounts – an effort that could deal a blow to tax havens like the Cayman Islands, Hong Kong, Switzerland and others.

    It remained unclear how far the G20 will go. At least the United States and France are said to be hoping for a strong endorsement.

    But even continued discussion will confirm how far a once-disdained effort by the United States alone to collect taxes on US nationals’ offshore accounts has expanded and gained support among other major economies, especially those facing large holes in their budgets.

    “The issue is to go as far as possible,” said one European official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    “Will they set a new standard, or simply recognize it in principle? We will see.”

    Supporters want banks to automatically supply information to a country on the accounts of its nationals, in the way the US FATCA (the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act ) requires information on Americans’ accounts abroad.

    “A door toward the end of banking secrecy is open. It is something extremely important,” said French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici ahead of the G20 meeting late Thursday.

    There is “an unstoppable movement toward a ‘European FATCA’“ he said, but that and the US effort need to be elevated to the level of the G20.

  4. @bubblebustin

    Great minds – a couple of hours ago I made this comment on a Linked-In FATCA discussion group in response to a post there by Just Me:

    “The FATCA chickens are finally coming home to roost. I think I’ll make some popcorn.”

  5. … and http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2013/04/20/the-g20-gives-another-win-to-tax-justice-automatic-information-exchange-is-now-the-required-standard-to-beat-tax-evasion/

    The G20 gives another win to tax justice – automatic information exchange is now the required standard to beat tax evasion
    Posted on April 20 2013

    The G20 Finance Ministers’ Communique issued yesterday says (and I have edited it into paragraphs):

    More needs to be done to address the issues of international tax avoidance and evasion, in particular through tax havens, as well as non-cooperative jurisdictions.

    We welcome the Global Forum’s report on the effectiveness of information exchange. We commend the progress made by many jurisdictions, but urge all jurisdictions to quickly implement the recommendations made, in particular the 14 jurisdictions, where the legal framework fails to comply with the standard. Moreover, we are looking forward to overall ratings to be allocated by year end to jurisdictions reviewed on their effective practice of information exchange and monitoring to be made on a continuous basis. In view of the next G20 Summit, we also strongly encourage all jurisdictions to sign or express interest in signing the Multilateral Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters and call on the OECD to report on progress.

    We welcome progress made towards automatic exchange of information which is expected to be the standard and urge all jurisdictions to move towards exchanging information automatically with their treaty partners, as appropriate. We look forward to the OECD working with G20 countries to report back on the progress in developing of a new multilateral standard on automatic exchange of information, taking into account country-specific characteristics. The Global Forum will be in charge of monitoring.

    We welcome the progress made in the development of an action plan on tax base erosion and profit shifting by the OECD and look forward to a comprehensive proposal and a substantial discussion at our next meeting in July.

  6. @Deckard1138
    Well FATCA’s devil has always been in the details, hasn’t it. I have a mental picture of Dick Harvey rubbing his hands together with a sinister laugh, mwahahahaha!

  7. Thanks for your alert on David Jolly’s piece. As I said on another thread, I have had email exchanges with him in the past, so just sent him an email about the Bankers Association lawsuit to be sure he sees the dots connected…

    This was also the story that was written about in the Financial times and kcnileg made the comment about it here

  8. damn, that means Sweden Finance Minister Anders Borg and Jack Lew are sitting in some sports bar now, laughing it up over my email on Anders Borg’s smartphone.

    To: Finance Department of Sweden: Anders Borg, Susanne Ackum,

    Cc: Tax ledamot: Leif Jakobsson (S), Henrik von Sydow (M), Andrén, Gunnar (FP)Folkpartiet , Pertoft, Mats (MP)Miljöpartiet (Green), Alfsson, Thoralf (SD)Sverigedemokraterna, Ceballos, Bodil (MP)Miljöpartiet, Olle SCHMIDT Folkpartiet, Sophia in ‘t VELD (European Parliament)
    cc: Dagens Industri, Aftonbladet, GT Expressen, Sydsvenskan, Göteborgs Posten

    I would like to understand why you are pursuing an intergovernmental agreement with USA regarding FATCA, and why you are allowing FATCA to be implemented in Sweden against all existing Swedish law, Swedish grundlag, and EU law.

    Don’t forget the a US person is
    –A Swedish citizen, born in USA of Swedish parents, while living temporarily in USA
    –A Swedish citizen, born in Sweden, with one US parent, who has lived his entire life in Sweden
    –A Swedish citizen, not a US citizen at all, who has a green card which he has not paid $450 to USA to renounce
    –A Swedish citizen, living in USA, who needs a bank account to receive rent payments upon his rented house while on expatriate work assignment for Volvo in USA

    Already today, US persons living in Sweden are not allowed to use most Swedish banks.

    This is the policiy of the only bank in my Town, Kullavik. The policy applies to these persons living in Sweden, who are Swedish Citizens and Swedish residents:

    “The Bank does not offer or sell investment deposit to US persons and the Client hereby confirms to the Bank that it is not a US person. The Bank has the right to terminate the agreement immediately if the Client is a US person or becomes a US person during the term of the agreement. The Client undertakes to inform the Bank immediately of any circumstances which could cause the Client to be qualified as a US person. The Bank can also use public information when assessing the qualification of a client as a US person. A legal person can be a US person, among other things, when it is established in the US, acts in accordance with US law, has a US postal address or has some business activities in the US. A representative office or a branch of a foreign legal person can be qualified as a US person on same conditions. A natural person can be a US person, among other things, when it is considered a US resident for tax purposes or if the person stays in the US for some time for educational or work purposes. A person can be considered a US person also under other conditions deriving from US laws. The Bank shall not be liable for any loss which the client may suffer as a result of termination of the agreement.”

    https://www.swedbank.ee/static/pdf/private/investor/deposits/cond_investdep_eng_2012_08_20.pdf

    Nordea: If you are in the United States, or a U.S. Person (any US Citizen or greencard holder living in Sweden), but you are not a QIB, you may not access the following materials. https://www.nordea.com/Investor+Relations/Debt+rating/Nordea+Bank+AB+US+MTN+Program/1150742.html

    SEB: Varken materialet eller de produkter som beskrivs häri är avsedda för distribution eller försäljning i USA eller till person bosatt i USA, s.k. U.S. Person (anyone with citizenship or US green card living in Sweden), och all sådan distribution kan vara otillåten. http://www.seb.se/pow/wcp/index.asp?ss=/pow/wcp/templates/sebcollection.cfmc.asp%3Fduid%3DDUID_400D336DF6DB9912C1257A690029C31D%26xsl%3Dse%26sitekey%3Dseb.se

    (Don’t let the punctuation of the below information fool you. The sentences are written with “or” which means that they will discriminate against US persons who live in Sweden.)

    Sweden will help to enforce these penalties according to the tax treaty with USA and according to a new Intergovernmental agreement which regeringen is getting ready to sign

    Here is the fate that will happen to the persons who are to be found:

    USA IRS Example 1: The taxpayer was born in the U.S. to parents of foreign citizenship. She grew up in a foreign jurisdiction (Sweden), unaware that she had been born in the U.S. She has a $60,000 account in the foreign jurisdiction. She has never filed U.S. returns or FBARs. She became aware she was a U.S. citizen when she had to get a birth certificate in order to obtain a passport from the foreign jurisdiction (Sweden) where she resides. Unless she decides to opt out, she is entitled to the reduced 5% offshore penalty”

    http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Offshore-Voluntary-Disclosure-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions-and-Answers

    I am aware of how Sweden acted during the 1930’s, cooperating and enabling the actions of a foreign power’s treatment of one race of persons. I am very much aware of the actions that Sweden is taking now in order to implement discrimination against a race of its Citizens born under the extra-territorial reach
    of a foreign power. With implementation of the IGA, the discrimination will be anchored in Swedish law. In addition, the discrimination will become reciprocal, and Swedish Citizens in USA will likely suffer the same consequences which have already begun in Sweden..

    What actions is your party going to take in this regard? Are you going to require that this discrimination continues? Are you going to enable it further with an IGA? Or are you going to stand up for the sovereignty of Sweden and the rights of ALL citizens and residents of Sweden and ensure that no FATCA discrimination occurs within the borders of Sweden?

  9. With all of this hubbub about FATCA, DATCA and finally we gotcha all with GATCA (thank the G-20 for that discussion), I wonder how those with large, bordering on obscene, amounts of money and a mansion in every port will fair when their detailed financial reports start whizzing around the globe? Or, will they become like the large banks, too big to touch? Will they get some sort of favourable status based on security issues? Will size matter when it’s their privacy at stake? After all, these big cats are celebrities, royalty, potentates, politicians and all manner of high flying financial wizzards and corporate heads. I can’t see these types taking kindly to the intrusions of a GATCA for themselves but I can see them saying ho-hum, sounds just fine … as long as it’s just for everyone else. The Rothschilds and the Rockefellers and their ilk are not going to give it up for the sake of a global war on tax evasion.

  10. This was inevitable. Why stumble through bilateral treaties with quirky and outright obstinate sovereign attitudes to civil rights, facing off against institutions, opposition parties and other forms of resistance against governing parties,,,, when it is much easier to gather finance ministers in secret discussions and coerce them all at once toward a uniform policy all agreeing with one voice. No nasty minority opinions or special arrangements. G20 is an economic forum of invited guests, where members can reap all sorts of benefits such as a consideration to access big consumer markets for select products — or a continuation of such access — as long as they are willing to give up the little things that are asked of them.

  11. Swedish Citizen – great letter. It would be wonderful if that letter, and similar letters, were “Open Letters” in the major newspapers and/or were picked up by knowing and tuned in journalists who would write articles in Sweden to accurately raise these issues.

  12. MSD – what I find amazing is how quickly governments push aside or ignore national privacy laws, bank secrecy and other legal protections to enter into IGAs and roll over to accommodate the US/EU and discriminate against their own citizens. Obama’s proposed legislation to require US banks to report to the IRS does not cover US dual citizens (i.e. the US is not throwing its dual citizens living in the US under the bus to foreign governments but is requiring exactly that from other countries).

  13. Don’t really know where to put this. Don’t pay your US tax bill in your local currency:

    “The IRS is often unable to process tax payments made in foreign currencies on a timely basis or at favorable exchange rates, according to a report from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA).
    TIGTA said, as a result, foreign currency payments that are not processed timely or are processed at lower exchange rates can cause undue burden on taxpayers and additional work for the IRS, and there is increased risk that taxpayer payments and information could be lost, stolen, or misused; taxpayers could be unnecessarily burdened; and the federal government could be charged with excessive or incorrect check conversion fees.”
    “TIGTA’S testing of 393 checks totaling $1.4 million submitted in a foreign currency identified the following internal control issues that adversely affected the processing of the payments:
    Procedures did not exist for the type of documentation to maintain for taxpayer receipts and other information collected and processed by the Manual Deposit Unit in the five Submission Processing Centers.
    Procedures did not exist to ensure that taxpayers were provided with accurate foreign currency exchange rate information when submitting checks in a foreign currency.
    Collection notices were not always suspended after taxpayers submitted payments to fully satisfy outstanding liabilities.
    Procedures were inadequate for monitoring whether taxpayer payments were timely processed and credited to their accounts.
    Procedures did not exist to verify the accuracy of bank processing fees charged to the IRS.”

    http://m.accountingweb.com/article/tigta-addresses-irs-trouble-processing-foreign-currency-tax-payments/221519

  14. Meanwhile, the US Treasury Department continues to promulgate the “Big Lie” theory:

    US Treasury Believes Momentum Building For FATCA
    by Mike Godfrey, Tax-News.com, Washington
    12 April 2013

    The article begins with the Treasury Department’s standard delusional spin:

    “As offshore tax evasion comes under increased international scrutiny, the United States Treasury Department has continued to ramp up efforts “to promote global tax transparency” through implementation of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), and believes that its efforts are building momentum worldwide.”

    But ends with a thud, as the impending reality of DATCA rears its ugly head once again:

    “However, the inclusion in President Obama’s budget this week of “reciprocal” regulations which will impose FATCA-style disclosures on US financial institutions directed at benefitting foreign IGA partners may set the cat amongst the pigeons in Congress, where there is already a head of discontent in respect of FATCA.”

    All in all, it’s getting hard to find “positive” coverage of FATCA that doesn’t sound completely forced and rather desperate – in the entertainment business we call it flop sweat.

  15. @Steve Klaus, it’s not all that amazing. The US is broke but to think that they are the only country struggling with funding issues is just wrong. Even those that weathered 2008 more or less well (and that’s a whole other discussion), no country really escaped. They are all hunting about for new revenue and the average citizen’s earned income and meager investments (compared to the truly rich) are mighty tempting. This will get worse before it corrects itself and eventually citizenship anywhere is going to be considered a pay as you go membership with some of the countries being better clubs to be in than others.

    The world’s financial grid is basically being held together with duct tape right now. What’s to come is anyone’s guess. But given the growing trend toward being taxed coming and going based on your whose passport you hold, dual citizenship is likely to get very expensive.

  16. And there is this:
    http://www.acfcs.org/world-powers-urge-automatic-swap-of-bank-data-as-fatcas-roots-and-bankers-plight-grow/
    ‘World powers urge ‘automatic’ swap of bank data as FATCA’s roots and bankers’ plight grow’
    By: ACFCS Staff
    Date: April 23, 2013

    “The Group of 20 nations, which represent the world’s major powers, took a major step last Friday toward making a global standard of the handful of recent bilateral bank information exchange agreements spawned by the US Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act of 2010.

    In a communiqué released April 19, the G20 urged global adoption of a “standard” that would create a system for the “automatic exchange of information” on the bank accounts of persons that may be evading taxes that they owe in their home or tax domiciles.

    The G20 announcement in Washington, issued at the end of their semiannual meeting, is more than mere words because it is meant for public consumption but is directed at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), which they control.”……….

    Except, as we know, despite being transparent, and paying all tax due to our country of residence, since the US asserts the ‘unique’ powers to tax us based merely on parentage or birthplace, the effect of any such global system on those deemed to be ‘taxable persons’ by the US is to be held in thrall, shackled for life to a country which respects no ethical or just boundaries to tax, and refuses to accept our lack of any relationship with the US economic system. Our accounts are held locally, where we live. We’ve already been taxed by the non-US country where we live, and may have been born, and our accounts are local, and registered with our home country’s tax agency – ex. the Canada Revenue Agency. And any such global system of automatic information exchange will further punish us merely for being deemed US citizens or ‘US taxable persons’ (including expired greencard holders).

Leave a comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *