Well, this Legislation has been tried before and died. Just last year. However, hope springs eternal, and ACA, AARO and FAWCO are encouraging Congress to try again.
Now that Overseas American Week in DC is finished, it is time for some follow up action by us. With the issues of Americans abroad fresh in the minds of Congressman, and with a Residency Based Taxation (RBT) proposal on the table, now is the time to lend some support to Representative Carolyn Maloney’s latest bill.
There is an easy way, via Pop Vox, . Yu can vote it up or down and at the same time automatically send messages to each of your representatives at with whatever additional message you wish to convey. Hint (FATCA and the RBT)
You can also spread it around via Twitter or Facebook.
Psst… Pass it on!
I know that I shouldn’t do this. It doesn’t matter to me and won’t make a difference in my life. Yet, I did it anyways for those unfortunate souls who are still Americans. Here’s my comment generated by PopVox:
Do you think that a non-US citizen can get more attention than an American citizen?
Good for you, Swisspinoy. Excellent comment — and I bet it made you feel a bit better! Just reading it made me feel better.
@Swisspinoy,
I echo calgary on your comment. And thanks for ‘making my day’.
Very lovely comment. I am sure that it will be noted and just as likely reinterpreted to fit the narrative they have already decided on and having been happily promoting all along really.
My rather jaded opinion is that short of duals self-immolating in front of consulates by the dozens absolutely nothing will change. This committee is a sham that will fact find only that which suits the agenda as it is now.
FATCA Song of Protest (sung to Rosanne Cash’s lovely propaganda song “Land of Dreams”)
I heard you calling from the start.
A sad song destroyed my heart
Entitlement I see through and through
I will not pay your bills for you!
Land of dreams; land of dreams
Come and fund my land of dreams
Gatca’s closer than it seems
Come and fund my land of dreams…
So file your taxes and make it real
We don’t care just how you feel
Obama’s our saviour it seems
So you will fund our land of dreams
See the heartbreak in their eyes
Our illegals look towards the skies
They desire welfare and money green.
Obama’ll give them everything.
Well you can hear my violin strings
In Canada my freedom rings
So KISS MY ASS! That’s what I mean!
I will not fund your land of dreams!!!!
Thanks Swisspinoy for giving me a laugh this morning… “asking a rock to jump”. I loved that one! I wouldn’t feel bitter because I doubt that anything will ever come of this.
PopVox failed at the final stage for lack of an in-district phone number. I guess that’ll be a problem for a lot of us….
Instead I’ve written a letter to my congressperson and will fax it from the public library.
One more tiny brick in our wall? Let’s hope.
@Sad-in-the-UK
Well maybe that number that you input suddenly stopped working or was disconnected later… hint hint! or how about the relatives phone number that you might visit someday… hint hint.
🙂
yeah, I don’t see the benefit of using a 3rd party to submit my Communication.
I just found this thread: I wish Mrs Maloney all the best with getting HR597 passed but agree passionately with Swisspinoy and “a says” : rocks jumping drives people to self-immolation.
in the many dark hours before I became compliant (sacrificing 40% of lifesavings for fees to become so ) I considered divorce and/or suicide to protect my british family.
the message becomes simple: renounce as soon as you can consistent with your circumstances. the USA doesn’t care about the 6-7 million citizens outside its borders (hint: Department of HOMELAND security, INTERNAL revenue service)
Destroying these natural ambassadors is consistent with an empire’s last gasp. by renouncing you are being a true American-you are voting with your feet against taxation without representation.
God bless you all in your efforts to protect yourselves and your non US families from the rapacious “gubbermint” machine that the USA has become to fund its debt.
@crystal london
Thanks for your comment.
I am CCW, (compliant, complain and warn) but have reluctantly concluded that if you are to live abroad long term, compliance cost is too high for the US Tax Form and Penalty club. While I will support the commission, I have no illusion that this will go anywhere. It is just the Democratic guilty mind going through a soothing exercise while the same ones that support this legislation also are co-sponsors to doubling down on the FATCA madness with HR 1554, and of course, NOT ONE Republican signs onto the commission idea either.
From my cynical perspective, this bill will go nowhere, and even if it did, it would accomplish nothing as any recommendations would just be ignored.
After waiting a couple of weeks for a reply, below you will find a response I recieved from one of the Republicans Abroad offices this week concerning my request for them to help find Republican Representatives to support H.R. 597 (Commission on Americans Living Abroad Act). I was quite irritated after reading their letter and have not yet replied… I wonder what truely is their role if this is not… And what other laws are on the books that support our cause? Seriously I would like to know. If there are other laws and bills that have already been enacted that protect us and look into matters of Americans Abroad, what are they exactely? Because I know of none. As I am fairly new to this website I am not sure how much I can express my frustration, so we’ll leave it at that, and let the rest of you have at it…
For privacy issues I have deleted the name of the person who replied to me.
If there are things you would like me to put in my letter please do let me know, or perhaps we all need to write more and more letters pushing them more on the issue.
Their response is below.
——
@taxconfuzaled
To be charitable, maybe they are parsing their words, depending on whether or not they have Tax Exempt status 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(4). If, so, they have to be careful not to imply or be seen as lobbyist. They can certainly “advocate for” or “lend support” for such measures, if they so desire. That said, from my reading, it doesn’t seem like they have a desire to do that, as they seem to think it is wasted effort or ineffective at accomplishing anything, and they probably are NOT wrong. Sad to say, this Bill is NOT going anywhere soon.
You might want to take them up on this, . “Please do share with me aspects of the bill that you feel are not covered by the current work scope of consular officials, as I would certainly point this out to them when I periodically meet them.” and point out the negative. Where is there any evidence that Consular offices (generally speaking) actually do anything “in their current work scope” to address any of impacts of FATCA or any of the issues of Taxation on Americans abroad as pointed out in Nina Olson’s most recent report to Congress? http://1.usa.gov/VRJVsc or http://1.usa.gov/VRJVsc
Glad to see they “Hope overseas Republicans” do support the “Repeal of FATCA”, but they should be a little more forth right in their public opposition to FATCA and advocate stronger, even if they want to stay away from the “Lobby” terminology.
@taxconfuzaled,
My focus in the letter you received from Republicans Abroad was on the word “sequester”:
It is an especially hard sell at this time to convince US to help US persons abroad (all characterized as “Un-American”) when “real” US persons are suffering because of budget cuts.
One angle the ACA has taken is that Residence Based Taxation will actually increase dollars coming in to US (http://americansabroad.org/files/6513/6370/3681/finalsubrbtmarch2013.pdf). Schneider’s proposal for RBT, specifically listed as being under consideration by House Ways and Means, is under the major heading of “International Competitiveness” (http://www.finance.senate.gov/issue/?id=0587e4b4-9f98-4a70-85b0-0033c4f14883).
Perhaps a money argument might help. In terms of letters to US people in power, my approach is to send in near future a positive letter to the House Committee for support of RBT it now “may wish to consider”–once I have figured out in my own mind how to deal with the exit tax possibilities in the different proposals.
@IRSCompliantForever
Thank you for getting back to me.
It is very frustrating for me and for others to stand by and see that Republicans Abroad is not taking more steps to get congressmen onboard on this and other issues. What exactly is Republican Abroad’s mission if lobbying and formally asking congressmen to support something is not what you do?
Secondly, I have a hard time buying into that… We are asking for one (1) program to be supported! In my memory we have never asked for anything to be supported until recently. The Americans in America are obtaining many things that we don’t have access to living abroad. Opening bank accounts in the US is one huge one! Perhaps Republicans Abroad should start a campaign to teach people (Congress) the benefits of us living overseas and what it does for America! Yes, might be far stretched, but based on your comments that they think we are UN-American… We are promoting American values and sometimes making those who hate us, like us! I am sure you could come up with many more reasons to let the American people in the US know about us and why it is vital Americans live outside the country. In addition, this bill does not cost the tax payers tons of money. So I am dumbfounded by your responses.
JustMe above makes some excellent points that we would love to hear your opinions on.
I am very much aware of ACAs position on RBT, and I support it like many other Americans Abroad who actually even know about this. (most don’t) We appreciate your help in getting letters out in support of RBT to the house committee. As for exit tax, there should be no exit tax! And I hope this is your position.
I am very curious how Congress thinks that this (HR 597) is an issue for the Consular offices in the Embassies when those offices are not tasked to deal with any of the issues that are listed under HR 597, could you kindly explain? I would very much like to know who you spoke with in each of those offices, so that I can follow up with those individuals to try to understand where their thinking is coming from on this one. If you do not want to list them on IBS it’s fine, you can email me directly the list. What it appears to me is that Republicans Abroad just do not want to get close politically to a bill that is associated with a Democrat. This is just sad.
Concerning S 887, again can we find out why no other Republican in the Senate has Co-sponsored this bill? Also could you elaborate on what you mean by, “hopefully overseas Americans will support S. 887? Do you expect Senators to get on board only if constituents write and, why wouldn’t Republican Senators just get on board now if they are concerned about FATCA? You note by yourself in your email how destructive FATCA is, shouldn’t you and the Republicans Abroad be pushing for this and not expecting individuals to do the heavy lifting on this? I myself only found out about FATCA earlier this year, and almost all other Americans Abroad that I have spoken to have no idea about this law. I feel this is something where Republicans Abroad can do much more than individual citizens!
@taxconfuzaled,
My partial response is that given that the supposed mandate of Republicans Abroad it would make sense to continue sending requests to this organization to act as an advocate for proposals that help US persons abroad. (In fact, I will probably do this as well.) However, based on my experience living in a mean-spirited Republican family, my approach still would focus on how RBT can help the usual Republican bottom line (dollars–unless for military etc.) at a time of budget cutbacks.
In fact, the very first bullet point in the ACA proposal to the House W&M was not that RBT would be helpful to US persons who are harmed by the IRS, but rather that RBT will bring more money into US Treasury.
So, what do “real: Americans (and their congressional reps?) think about HR 597 at a time of budget cutbacks? Here is a depressing sampling from the website:
“This is more unneeded oversight and wasted money.”
“This is a total waste of tax dollars, which we are short of. American citizens should live in America, unless they are Military. If they want to live elsewhere, then they need to except what they get.”
“Sequester? we have no money!!!”
“We don’t need to spend anymore money studying something that has minimal effect at a time when we are overwhelming in debt up to our eyeballs. We need to stop sending money to other countries, especially those that don’t like us. We need to get out of debt by CUTTING our spending!”
“If people do not want to live in America, then that is their problem. Again, what a waste of my taxpayer money and a display of the incompetence of Congress.”
“We are broke as a nation, why should the entire country have to pay for the few that chose to leave the USA?”
@IRSCompliantForever
When you read those comments, you are reminded about how myopic and ignorant even Republicans can be when it comes to the negative impacts of Citizenship Taxation…. There is NO hope. King George III would have loved that mentality. “That little colony of discontents is not worth studying. Tell those settlers to come home or join the British Army!”
How can you get these idiots to consider anything but their own narrow selfish views? Republicans abroad should be taking a stronger stand on advocacy and education. Their partisans have no idea about the positive impacts of having millions of Americans abroad countering their endless appetite and gluttony for imports and impacts on trade deficits.
http://bit.ly/17X14Kx
@Just Me,
To clarify, Real American comments were not taken from the Republican’s Abroad website but from the popvox website mentioned at the top of this blog which permits a “vote” and comments on HR 597:
https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr597/report#nation
Popvox shows that 71% support the bill but 29% actually oppose. I find this to be a high percentage against what I would have thought would be a “helpful/harmless” bill aimed at causing less harm to US citizens.
One more negative comment from the site which illustrates much:
“America isn’t doing a good enough job with its own citizens. Citizens abroad should be living under the jurisdiction of the foreign nation, under the When in Rome policy. There is no reason to conduct a study on policy on these matters. Waste of tax payer funds and the information in this study will actually be detrimental and violating rules of international law.”
The executive summary of an ACA House submission showing a financial (vs. harm) bottom line in the very first bulleted point was taken from:
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/american_citizens_abroad_wg_submission.pdf
and says:
“This win-win RBT solution will:
increase Treasury tax receipts by an estimated $30 billion over ten years, whether RBT is drafted
as a voluntary program or the default tax system;”
@IRSCompliantForever
Thanks for clarifying that it is not just Republicans that are so myopic… Americans generally, don’t get it, unless you get them away from their Partisan minders to point out the facts of the situation.
So, where is another Republican Senator signing onto S887, Rand Paul’s call to repeal of portions of FATCA. Are they hiding in fear of being branded by Progressives as favoring Tax cheats? A real show of Republican courage!
@taxconfuzaled,
You mention above your hope that I do not support the exit tax. Previously in this forum I angrily opposed the tax, but now I feel that I was mistaken and did not think through this clearly:
I support the two key RBT proposals (ACA, Schneider) made to the House W&M Committee that contain an exit tax because there is no chance that this Congress will ever approve RBT without some departure tax.
Skimming through IBS comments I find that almost all oppose the tax, although @ShadowRaider notes: “But since the exit tax already exists for people who terminate US citizenship, I don’t think that Congress would allow termination of US residence without an exit tax.”
You say that you support the ACA proposal. This means that you also “support” an exit tax, which is a key component of this submission: http://americansabroad.org/files/6513/6370/3681/finalsubrbtmarch2013.pdf.
The Committee did not just cite the title of the singled-out Schneider proposal for RBT consideration, but went out of its way to add, on its own, the phrase “similar to the law in Canada.” This suggests that it is moving (if at all) in the direction of a Canadian-type exit tax with RBT:
http://www.finance.senate.gov/issue/?id=0587e4b4-9f98-4a70-85b0-0033c4f14883
If the unthinkable happens and RBT actually passes against high odds, I just hope that the (unfair) exit tax will not harm most people. Do the math per Schneider vs. ACA and compare. Will you actually owe any tax?
Getting out completely is my default and appears to be the plan for just about all in this forum— but yes, because I want RBT to have a chance of being approved, I will go against my own principles, hold my nose, and support the key ACA and Schneider proposals that contain an exit tax.
My hope is that further submissions to W&M will influence and provide better variations/clarifications of the tax.
@IRSCompliantForever
and such is the nature of “compromise” over “absolutism”. 🙂
The democrats are easy targets. The Republicans voted against FATCA because the Democrats voted for it. 2nd priority is that they were against any spending. Had it been a republican majority it could have been flip flopped.
What a bitter laugh I get out of these comments:
Why should my Canadian made earnings go to the US to support those in the US? Why should I be deemed a US ‘taxable’ person?
It is kind of a BS bill. The work should be included in normal Senate and Congress responsibilities. The bill sponsors are primarily giving lip service. If they segregate issues for US Citizens overseas it gives them an excuse to be antagonistic to the issues in their normal work.
But, if it were to pass it would be a good thing so it should be supported as much as possible.
Exactly, badger, why?