There has been a new petition launched on the White House Web site with this proposal:
WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
Change US tax law from citizenship based law to residence based law.
The above link to this petition was alerted to me by Bertpug on Shadow Raider’s thread about rewriting of the Internal Revenue Code.
ACA is announcing the petition on its website and in its news update and probably on its FACEBOOK.
I thought we should headline it here, so it has more visibility. It is a long road to 25,000 signatures requiring an Obama Administration response. Realistically it will have absolutely no resonance or support with Homelanders and the newsertainment media. It certainly should be more impactful and important than the petition to deport Piers Morgan. However, sadly, we know it will not, unless enough Americans abroad raise their heads from the sand and do something!
Yesterday morning around this time, it only 271 signatures. This morning it has gone to 377. Only 24,623 to go!
@ Thomas
I felt the same about the text. It was simply stated but could have been better. However, as you say, it is there and signing it is something at least. I don’t think it will reach 25K so I see no problem with another attempt with different text. It isn’t uncommon at that site to see multiple petitions on the same topic (e.g. Westboro Baptist).
@medea, bubblebustin, roger & a
I think it is fixation. Like Medea said, it’s a right and by God, they’ve got to have it.
Even the rise of violence in Toronto makes me wonder how people have become so inhumane but when I see what is going on in the US, I’m just horrified. And certainly glad I do not live there anymore.
I saw the interview and could not believe it. Though it did not occur to me that it was staged until brought up here. Guess I’ve never really lost all my gullible-ness. 😉
@nobledreamer
I share your concerns. If was staged it makes it all the more scarier, at least for me, that it was done solely for theatre. Is it gullibility, or do we prefer not to excuse it so easily?
The signatures are slowing down now (total of 1,123 at the end of Jan 11th). Obviously a serious issue such as ours just doesn’t capture attention like a “feud” between two media characters. People prefer to focus on gnats while buzzards circle their heads I guess.
Dec 30 to Jan 3 — 83 signatures (average 16.6 per day)
Jan 4 — 64
Jan 5 — 158
Jan 6 — 138
Jan 7 — 245
Jan 8 — 140
Jan 9 — 127
Jan 10 — 82
Jan 11 — 79
Jump a little higher! Good boy! > RT @ohtarzie: White House raises petition signature requirement to 100,000 http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/16/3881672/white-house-petition-signature-threshold-raised
*Just thought some of you would find this amusing
Obama to use D.C. ‘taxation without representation’ license plates
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/obama-to-use-dc-taxation-without-representation-license-plates/2013/01/15/f91b09ac-5f5b-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_story.html
@Worldwide
President Obama announced Tuesday that the District’s politically charged “taxation without representation” license plates will be placed on all presidential limousines this weekend, a move city leaders have been waiting on for four years.
Wow, it takes a lot of balls to be that brazenly hypocritical, doesn’t it?
*Those ears aren’t made for listening are they?
Yeah ok, some of us abroad can vote, but many cannot due to vary state and county regulations. But we are not counted in the Census, so the House is not proportional as to our home states. We are such a spread-out minority over the 50 states and various territories that nobody listens to our issues. We are not represented, yet the IRS tries to tax us. How dare the US engage in the same sort of behavior that the Revolution was justified by? I mean really, am I hallucinating or is Obama so blind, stupid or perhaps just callous?
*@Jefferson
DC residents can vote in the presidential election. They just don’t have representation in Congress or the Senate. Just like US citizens abroad. They should move back to one of the 50 states if they want to be represented.
Saying that DC residents have taxation without representation is a tacit admission that expats have no representation either, because we are fictional residents of Washington DC according to US tax code.
@Jefferson T., As a matter of curiosity do you or anyone else know if any other country counts, or tries to count, its citizens who live outside of that country/
There are several countries that have one or more of their representatives in the national legislature that are elected and represent their citizens who live outside of the country. I don’t have the specifics at my fingertips, but I know that the legistative representative of Colombians abroad is a residnt of the US and travels to Bogota to participate in legislative sessions. In those countries which have representatives of their overseas citizens, these representatives can not only volte on legislation but can also introduce it. We have elected representatives of US citizens in Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, etc. who can introduce legislation and participate in discussion, but they are not permitted to cast a vote. But there is nothing for US citizens residing outside of US territory, except the obligation to pay US taxes. There is even one exception to this. US citizens and others resident in Puerto Rico are not subject to US income tax on their Puerto Rico income. Instead they pay income tax to Puerto Rico under a tax system which is similar to, but totally separate from the Federal income tax.
*Petros, good point. Obama would have included expats on this issue if they had any representation. Yet, expats have absolutely no representation and thus Obama excluded them from this issue too.
@Roger – Italy has an elected bodies that look into the interests of Italians abroad. Italians also have a legal duty to register with the AIRE (the registry of Italian citizens abroad) which is located at the local consulate. See the following link and then go to “Bodies representing Italians abroad”. http://www.esteri.it/MAE/EN/Ministero/Servizi/Sportello_Info/DomandeFrequenti/UfficiServiziConsolariEstero/OrganiRappresentativi.htm
As for Italian tax obligations for those citizens who live abroad, I have only been able to find one. If an Italian abroad uses his or her Italian passport to travel outside of the EU, then each year they must purchase a “Sello Marco da Bollo”, which is a stamp that goes inside their passport. The sello costs ~ EUR 42. This “tax” must be paid again after one year as the stamp is valid for one year. In Italy, you can purchase this at any kiosk. Abroad you get it from the consulate. The fine for not having it if you should travel into Italy from a country outside the EU is EUR 200.
Lisa, Switzerland is not in the EU and some Italians (non-Swiss) who live here said that that this used to be true in the past but no longer applies today. They only have to pay taxes on property that they own in Italy or 40+ € if they renew their passport. It is possible, though, that the Mafia might be tricking people into paying such a “tax”.
I will let you know when I get my Italian passport (via jus sanguinis). An Italian has told me that it is still current, however, he pointed out that this is almost never checked, or that checking is random. I suspect many Italians abroad may not bother with this, or may be totally unaware of this requirement.
*@Lisa, thanks for the clarifications on Italians abroad. I believe Italy is one of the more lenient nations in recognizing the Italian citizenship, and issuing Italian passports, to descendants of Italians born abroad whose grandparenst, great-grandparents, etc. emigrated from Italy many generations ago. Argentina, for example, has a very large percentage of its populaton with Italian surnames and I have known many who do whatever is necessary to make sure that their Italian citizenship is recogtnized. With an Italian passport in hand, they can use their Argentine passport to leave Buens Aries, hop on a flight to Miami or New York at night and clear US immigration with their Italian passport in hand when they land the next morning in the US.. If they were to use their Argentine passports then they would have to obtain a visa from the US consulate, but as Italian citizens under the US visa waver program they do not need a visa to enter the US.
Before retirement I used to travel to Argentina often on business and seemingly almost all of my customers there also had Italian citizenship and passports which they used in traveling to the US.
Exactly the same is true of descendants of German emigrants in Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, etc. Born abroad to a parent with German citizenship they have dual citizenship from the moment of birth and use their German passports when traveling to the US because they can do so without a US entry visa. Becoming a naturalized German citizen requires renunciation of prior citizenships, but being born a dual citizen they do not have to renounce their other citizenship in order to retain German citizenship.
Obtaining a US visa is not only costly, but they have to travel, often very long distances, to a city in the country where they reside for a personal interview with the US consular official in order to obtain a US visa. If you are 1000 miles or 1500 Km. from the nearest US consulate that is a major task which likely involves stayuing overnight.
But even though their citizenship policies are even more liberal than those of the US, they are never subject to homeland taxes when they live abroad.
@roger Switzerland tries to anyway. Voting abroad is possible. Even for referendum and initiative. One votes either in their village of origin or the last place of residence.
http://www.ch.ch/schweiz/00156/index.html?lang=fr
http://aso.ch/fr
*Please sign the White House petition to “Change the US tax law from citizenship based law to residence based law” even if the wording isn’t perfect. I’ve contacted all my family members and friends in the US. They have all signed! If each of us contacts all the Americans we know maybe we will reach the goal of 25,000 signatures.
Janet S
*You may recal (I do) that a few years back the Census Department made a big effort to count US citizens living abroad. It gave up because it was a total failure.
Many Americans abroad went out of their way to be sure they were not counted. They did not want to be discovered by the IRS and/or Treasurty Department and determined to non-compliant on their US tax obligations. At least I suspect this was one of the important reasons why it was such a dismal failure.
On the other hand I recall having enjoyed lunch at the Swss Ambassador to the US in Washington during Americans Abroad week several years ago. Jackie Bugnon, who is “the tax lady” at American Citizens Abroad – ACA and who lives in Geneva, made the arrangements. The Swiss Ambassador told us that in his opinion Swss counsulates around the world have excellent records on the Swiss citizens who live abroad. They typically go out of their way to make sure the counsulates are kept up to date with their contact information. Switzerland considers its citizens abroad to be important unofficial ambassadors and goes out of its way to enhance the relationship between the government back home in Switzerland and its citizens who live abroad. Although they do not have direct representatives in the Swiss legislature, their opinions are sought and listened to. And I understand there are regular annual meetings back in the homeland where Swiss abroad are invited. Being a nation with four official languages, I asked the Ambassador what language was used in these meetings. His reply was “whatever language the person speaking feels most comfortable in using.”
Swiss living abroad have no reason to hide like Americans have been brainwashed for years to do.
The numbers aren’t indicating that this petition will make it to Obama’s desk but at least it was one more way to get our message out there. Brockers have been doing their best I’m sure to pass along the word about this petition.
Dec 30 to Jan 3 — 83 signatures (average 16.6 per day)
Jan 4 — 65
Jan 5 — 159
Jan 6 — 139
Jan 7 — 246
Jan 8 — 140
Jan 9 — 128
Jan 10 — 83
Jan 11 — 80
Jan 12 — 90
Jan 13 — 100
Jan 14 — 91
Jan 15 — 115
TOTAL 1519
The Swiss tax their citizens according to residency. And Swiss products are found all over the world.
The US on the other hand, prefers the “hunting down and smoking out” approach towards its ex-pats.
@AbusedExpat
and so do the Germans, and look at their trade surpluses
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade
*The key reason why Swiss products are “found” around the world, is because there are Swiss citizens around the world out there selling them and capturing markets. While the US labor unions oppose free trade is because, according to the reasoning of their leaders, it destroys American jobs. But the Swiss view it very differenty. The Swiss labor unions are among the strongest supporters of free trade, including the free trade agreement which is currenty being negotiatied with China because they recognize that free trade creates high paying jobs for Swiss workers. While exports contribute about 8% towards the US GDP in Switzerland some 50% of GDP is from exports. And while Switzerland’s unemployment rate is 2.9% in the US it is 7.8%. And this is in spite of the fact that wage levels in Switzerland are 56% higher than they are in the US. For 2012 the US trade deficit with China, when the numbers for December are in, will probably be slightlhy higher than they were last year at $300 billion. China has maintained a trade surplus with China for many years and it just keeps growing, even though its per-captia imports from China are roughly equal to those of the US. The reason for this contrast is so obvious that it is really difficult to understand why nobody in Washington is able to figure it out.
On my most recent visit to the Swiss consulate it took the consular official less than two seconds to pull up my record on the computer when I gave her my name. She knew my “home cities” for Swiss purposes, my date of registration as a Swiss citizen and the fact I had resided in the US since living in Switzerland. I also get the Swiss Abroad publication a couple of times a year with obligatory articles on yodeling, alphorns, chocolate and schwingen (wrestling in sawdust while wearing burlap shorts).