Hello everybody. I have just happened on a resource this is “new” (at least for me). It is a site called OpenParliament.ca.
What this site allows you to do is search what various members of Parliament have said about specific issues. One can also search keywords. These issues include: IRS, FBAR, FATCA, etc.
For example: http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=IRS
Here is something interesting – Scott Michel (Washington lawyer who seems to be fairly well connected and has been mentioned many times on this blog) testifying before the Canadian Finance Committee in 2011 on FBAR, Voluntary Disclosure, UBS, etc.
http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=IRS+Person:+%22Scott+D.+Michel%22
You can see that this site is a “Treasure Trove” of information.
Now, here is what I am proposing. At the top of this board is an announcement about FATCA Fact Finding Forum in Toronto on Dec. 15. The purpose appears to be to help the Progressive Canadian Party prepare a submission to the Government on FATCA. I think the submission might be better and more interesting if one knew, what the Government has known about all of these issues to date.
Therefore, I urge somebody to take the lead in researching this site and summarizing exactly what has been discussed before. I think the Scott Michel stuff would be of particular interest. It goes back to 2011 and clearly means that the Government of Canada was well aware of the purpose of the FBAR Fundraiser. Also Prof. Art Cockfield of Queen’s law school has (I believe testified before this committee).
Proposed Isaac Brock Society objective: To summarize all of this information and present the summary at the FATCA Fact Finding Conference to the Progressive Canadian Party. (At a minimum, I believe that Petros is attending).
There are at least two ways to compile this information.
1. OpenParliament.ca
Search with the appropriate key words: FBAR, FATCA, IRS, Voluntary disclsoure, Geithner, etc.
2. Google Search “Member Name” IRS or “Member Name” FBAR
After reading Badgers comments about Ralph Goodale, I searched “Ralph Goodale IRS” and here is what popped up:
http://www.ralphgoodale.ca/blog/fighting-the-long-arm-of-the-u-s-tax-man/
(Same article that Badger found but on his personal blog.)
This should be done for every member of Parliament.
I will of course work on this too. But, this does seem to me to be a project that would be better done as a group with a clear leader. Would somebody volunteer to lead this effort?
The conference is next Saturday and I believe that this summary is something that would be an important contribution to the discussion.
I would suggest calling it:
“FATCA and the FBAR Fundraiser: What did the government know and when did they know it?
This needs to be completed and tied up with a blue ribbon by this Thursday at the latest.
http://openparliament.ca/debates/2012/2/27/megan-leslie-6/
…”As another parentheses
about tax havens, we have recently seen the U.S. trying to crack down on
tax havens. It loses about $100 billion a year to offshore tax evasion
and avoidance. Canada loses about a tenth of that or $10 billion a year.
The U.S. is trying to crack down on these tax havens by making sure
that people are tax compliant and introducing new legislation like
FATCA, for example. The problem is that they are actually scooping up
the wrong people. They are not going after the folks who are tax
avoiders or are ferreting off this money and trying to hide it, but are
hitting ordinary citizens, like ordinary Canadians.
In my riding of Halifax,
there are many people who have immigrated to Canada from the U.S. and
are dual citizens, as well as people who are American by accident, whose
parents were American citizens and whose offspring are therefore
considered American citizens for tax purposes. They did not know they
had to file taxes over all these years and are now finding out that they
may face tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of fines. The phone was
ringing off the hook in my constituency office from these folks calling
and saying that they were scared, too scared to find out what their
rights were and too scared to find out if they are considered U.S.
citizens and do not know what to do.
As a result, we held an
information session on rights and filing obligations, how the amnesty
works, and those kinds of things. Myta Blacklaws in my Halifax office
organized this information session. We booked a room for 60 people but
when we managed to fit 125 people into that room, we started putting
people into a second room. It was unbelievable. It was standing rooms
only, as it were. This information session was led by a woman named
Blair Hodgman, an immigration lawyer, and some tax accountants were also
present.
It is really stressing
people. People are scared and under a lot of pressure. Yet the NDP has
been asking the Conservative government to take action to start
discussions with the U.S. about what is going on, why regular folks are
being penalized and that this is not what we are going after with the
tax haven legislation, that this is not the intended effect and that we
should be reasonable.
We have not seen action
from the government on this issue. I know it is the opposite situation
that we have in Panama with tax havens, but the track record on tax
havens by the government has been pretty appalling, so I cannot imagine
that it is going to try to enact anything when it comes to Panama as
well.”…
Sample search (caveat, the word FATCA may not have appeared in all discussions of IRS or US tax imposed in Canada):
http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=FATCA
FBAR
http://openparliament.ca/search/?q=fbar
Contrast the discussions above, with this one, which is not about our situation, but can be confounded with it because of US extraterritorial citizenship based taxation and reporting.
http://openparliament.ca/committees/finance/40-3/63/?page=14
And, when you read all the way through this one above, you see that in writing to MPs, it is imperative to contrast our LOCAL already transparent, SIN# registered, automatically reported to CRA, Canadian accounts being pursued under FATCA, with the all-encompassing targets of the US, and the ‘hidden’ ‘offshore’ ones being discussed in this committee. We are not holders of ‘offshore’ accounts – though the US characterizes them that way because they are not inside the US – but then, neither are we – and many of us have never even lived in the US – and were born in Canada. Our accounts are transparently held and reported and taxed where we live – we live in Canada, our accounts are in Canada – there is NO offshore component – other than in the deluded mind of the US – because they hold us hostage through mere inherited or birth citizenship.
There is little or no awareness in Canada of what FATCA and FBARs are based on. It is important to underscore that this is the US forcing reporting on our LOCAL Canadian accounts, NOT ‘offshore’ ones, and that they include many non-personal Canadian accounts held by Canadian owners – employers, business partners, voluntary organizations, in Canada – none of whom are US persons, and none of whom have any tax or reporting obligation to the US. These accounts cannot be described as ‘foreign’ or ‘offshore’ – since the true owners are not even US persons.
@badger
Included of course, should be your comments of December 6 on the
CCLA Registers Concerns on FATCA thread:
“Just realized that one significant concern that may not be adequately addressed by the CCLA, is that those Canadian citizens and residents deemed ‘US taxable persons’ are compelled to disclose the full information on co-signatory non-personal accounts (ex. Canadian employer, or business partner), and joint accounts (ex. with Canadian-only spouse or child) held with non-US persons. That means that either we must disregard the real owner’s Canadian Charter privacy rights (if they are Canadians only), and joint owners likewise, or break US tax laws. If we disclose with the true non-US owner’s permission, we may subject them to potential identity theft, and the Patriot Act provisions. If they were to sue us, what recourse would we have? If we were to disclose without the true owner’s permission, we break Canadian laws.
Catch-22 – choose – to break a Canadian law, in order to comply with a US one. If we respect the Canadian privacy rights of the non-US account owners and joint holders, we break US laws – with draconian consequences – as we are held liable nontheless – the IRS specifically states that US law (ex FBAR ) trumps any local laws – even though we are committing a crime in Canada, by disclosing the financial and personal information of other people – against their will, or with permission given only under duress. The penalties are assessed on the account balance, despite not being the asset owner, or despite not owning the asset in entirety.
Thus, FATCA will generate many potential injured parties, who are not US persons, but who are harmed by the use of their personal data.
In addition, in application on sovereign Canadian soil, FATCA elevates the US status of duals over the more salient one – being Canadian citizens in Canada.
It elevates US domestic law over Canadian ones – inside Canada. Congress does not have the power to assert US laws inside Canada, yet it would penalize us based on assets that do not belong to us, that we have no right to disclose, and that are sited in Canada – where they have no jurisdiction – particularly if the true account owner has no US obligation.”