Cross-posted from Maple Sandbox
We often use separate terms for “renunciation” and “relinquishment” since there are some notable differences between renunciation and the other methods of terminating one’s US citizenship. However, renunciation is actually one of the 7 methods of relinquishment, as set out in Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a). This post explains some of the similarities and differences.
RENUNCIATION – Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a)(5)
Renunciation is only form of relinquishment where the relinquishing act itself takes place at a US consulate. It is performed by taking the oath of renunciation (form 4080). Form 4081 (Statement of understanding of consequences) is also required. Form 4079 (Request for determination of loss of citizenship) is not strictly required, but the DOS procedure manual does state that “it may prove useful” regarding intent and some consulates do require it.
Depending on the consulate, renunciation may take one or two visits. Over the years, there’s been a trend of more consulates moving to one visit. The vast majority of renunciations being reported by Brockers have been one visit.
Since July 2010, there has been a $450 fee for renunciation. It increased to $2350 on 12 September 2014. This fee is payable at the visit where you sign your papers.
In the case of renunciation, the loss of citizenship is effective, for all purposes, as of the date you sign the forms at the consulate.
RELINQUISHMENT BY OTHER MEANS – Immigration and Nationality Act,
s. 349(a)(1)(2)(3)(4)(6)(7)
Of the remaining 6 methods of relinquishment, the most common means is by naturalisation in a foreign country s. 349(a)(1) with the intent of relinquishing one’s US citizenship. [This is of particular interest in Canada because whilst over 100,000 US-born Canadian citizens believe themselves to be “Canadian Citizen Only,” according to the 2006 census, it’s believed that almost none have a Certificate of Loss of Nationality because we were told we terminated our US citizenship automatically upon taking Canadian citizenship, particularly prior to 1990 when the administrative presumption changed, and almost no one seems to have even heard of a CLN before 2011.] Also relatively common are relinquishment by government employment (s. 349(a)(4)) or military service (s. 349(a)(3)).
In the case of relinquishment not done by renunciation, although the loss of citizenship occurs at the moment the relinquishing act is performed, the relinquishment is not effective for practical purposes in the eyes of the US government until the US government is notified by signing forms at a US consulate (although once your CLN is processed, the US govt does recognise the citizenship loss as having occurred at the time of the relinquishing act. Required forms are 4079 (Request for determination of loss of citizenship) and 4081 (Statement of understanding of consequences). It’s also a very good idea to supplement your 4079 with a statement illustrating your intent, how your post-relinquishment conduct has been consistent with lack of US citizenship.
When you attend at the consulate regarding this type of relinquishment, you’re essentially notifying them that you already have relinquished. Consequently, this generally requires only one consulate visit.
There is no fee for processing relinquishments done under these sub-articles. UPDATE: September 2015 – Dept of State has announced relinquishment-based CLNs will cost $2350 beginning November 9, 2015.
Once this is done, the US government will consider the loss of citizenship effective as of the date of the actual relinquishment (this date will appear on your CLN), except IRS will consider the loss to have occurred on the date you signed the forms at the consulate. However, this law, creating separate dates for loss of citizenship and loss of “tax citizenship,” came into effect on 4 June 2004. Important — if you performed your relinquishing act before that date, Brock posts If your expatriation date is before 2004 , Did you relinquish before February 6, 1995, and Pre-1995 Relinquishers and the IRS: Three Recent Legal Opinions discuss this matter. Tax lawyer Michael J. Miller has written an excellent article on this, which is very clear reading with useful references to legislation and case law as well.
Instead of getting a CLN, a relinquishment can also be self-documented for purposes such as for banking/investment in Canada. This is due to the Canada Revenue Agency’s Guidelines allowing self-documentation as proof of non-citizenship. Self-documentation may not a viable solution in all countries or for all situations, but it’s worth considering if it would be right for you. See Self-Documented Relinquishment.
But even if you obtain another citizenship with the intent to give up American citizenship, isn’t this still a call that the State Dept has final yea or nay over? And would it apply retroactively to a child who obtains citizenship via a family application? Who is really getting to decide this? The person or the American govt? Is it prudent to lay a “paper trail” during the application process so intent can’t be questioned or “over-ruled”.
@a
Under a US Supreme Court ruling (I think in 1986 but don’t quote me on that, I could have the date wrong), State Dept will in the case of a relinquishment claim make a determination based on “the preponderance of evidence.” Presumably that will be based largely if not entirely on your answers to form 4079.
Form 4079 does provide you the opportunity to attach a statement or document supporting your request. I would strongly encourage anyone filing for a relinquishment to attach a sworn affidavit (notarized before you go into the consulate, by a notary or your lawyer as appropriate, and keep at least one extra copy of it in your safe deposit box, State won’t return to you the copy you attach to Form 4079). In that affidavit I suggest you clearly identify who you are, succinctly describe the expatriating act or acts you performed and when (typically, became a foreign citizen on X date), state clearly that you took the act or acts of your own free will, and state clearly that you did so “with the intent of relinquishing my US citizenship” and (for a relinquishment I think this important) say something about why you intended to relinquish. Keep that short and don’t get into a political diatribe, explain in your own words why you wanted to become a citizen of another country and why you wanted to give up your USC. (I don’t recommend you mention taxation in any of this, that could cause a world of trouble later.)
Finally, and this is crucial, state clearly that since committing your expatriating act with intent to relinquish, you have NEVER done anything to exercise or lay claim to US citizenship or any benefits that accrue only to US citizens. List all the things you haven’t laid claim to (see question 13 and its subheadings in Form 4079 for the things to cover) and things that you have done in your new country (as in question 12, e.g., apply for and travel on a passport, vote in elections, pay taxes — do say you have paid taxes only in your new country) and everything else to which you can truthfully swear. You almost certainly still have family in the US; admit to this, but if that’s your only reason for ever visiting the US and then briefly, say that. If it’s true, also state clearly that you have never asked for nor accepted any US consular services (that isn’t on the form 4079 but I’ve heard from a lawyer you ought to say this); if you’ve ever been in a war zone or natural disaster somewhere outside the US or Canada and got help from the Canadian or (failing that) UK consulate or embassy, say that. (If you ran to the US embassy and asked for and got help, you’ve probably tilted the preponderance of evidence against your case. If they have any record of that they might hold it against you, whether or not you mention it).
Attach copies of whatever documentation you think is important to substantiate these claims, clearly numbering them as attachments and cross-referencing them in the affidavit. Review the wording of the affidavit with a lawyer experienced in this area. Conclude by affirming that you understand all the implications and consequences of making this statement and that you have received advice from a lawyer in doing so. Then sign in the presence of the notary or lawyer, who will witness and notarize the document (including separate copies that you keep).
Be aware that by swearing an affidavit, and also by swearing to your statements on form 4079, you are legally bound to tell the truth. Swearing or uttering a false document is a criminal offense and you can be extradited to the US for that under the Canada-US extradition treaty; I know of at least one person to whom that happened some years ago (on a taxation matter).
The affidavit is your opportunity to make your case in your own words. Make it as convincing as you can, without making false statements and without launching into verbal attacks on the US — keep it as positive as you can, but do be clear on why you did this. (If you came to Canada because of the Vietnam war and the draft, say that clearly but without going into a diatribe against the Vietnam war. If you make it clear and don’t get into political lecturing, this will NOT impede your case — I know people who have done this and who got relinquishment CLNs, both back in the 1970s and also as recently as this summer. State officials “get” that anyone who came to Canada in the 1970s because of the war and took out Canadian citizenship certainly did so with the intent of dumping their US citizenship; I would be stunned and amazed if a consular officer would try to argue that point with you — and don’t back down if they do. It’s a slam dunk. That doesn’t mean you can’t make just as solid a case without Vietnam, but I can guarantee that is a solid case – both in my own case and in at least four others I am aware of.)
Unfortunately there isn’t any clear guidance to be found in State Department documents regarding what consistitutes “preponderance of evidence.” There may very well be folks who have succeeded in getting a relinquishment CLN without an affidavit or statement such as I’ve described, but I do know people who have succeeded with such a document and did so without getting hassled. It can’t hurt your case and it could very well strengthen it, especially if there are points you wish to make about intent or about not having asserted or claimed USC afterwards that aren’t going to be clear in form 4079 for some reason. Having gone to the extra trouble of making the statement, even if it’s no more than repeating the stuff in questions 12 and 13 of Form 4079 in your own words, and stressing dates all along, if nothing else will reinforce your intention today and arguably also back whenever.
Having said all this, I have yet to hear of anyone who has been turned down for a relinquishment CLN and whose answers on questions 12 and 13 on form 4079 weren’t the “right” answers. I suspect any who does get turned down probably did something stupid or forgot they did, most commonly applying for a US passport after becoming a foreign citizen (that will kill a relinquishment case for certain), voted in a US election, or in the notably stupid example of the case which resulted in a Supreme Court ruling, took out newspaper adverts for business services in which you claimed to be an American (sic!!) after having allegedly intended to relinquish upon taking out foreign citizenship. There’s stupid, and then there’s really stupid …
The foregoing is NOT legal advice; I’m not a lawyer. However it is very carefully considered and (IMO) well-informed lay advice.
Good luck!
isn’t this still a call that the State Dept has final yea or nay over?
Congress says no:
@a I didn’t address the point you raised about someone who became a foreign citizen as part of a family application. If you were under the age of 18 when this happened, State Department probably would argue that it wasn’t done freely and with intent, since you were a minor at the time, and I believe that in most jurisdictions minors usually aren’t deemed to have free will and intent for legal purposes. However there may be some exceptions to this, and for that you definitely need to consult a good lawyer.
In such a case you can always renounce, of course. But that costs $450 (so far few if any consulates AFAIK have been charging that to relinquishment applications), and more crucially you definitely and unquestionably are going to be governed under IRS Form 8854 and all that jazz. A renunciation is expatriation on the date of your renunciation oath (today), both in State’s eyes and in the eyes of the IRS, and that’s the date that will show on your CLN. A relinquishment before 1995, and arguably before 2004, may not have that problem (see Pacifica’s comment in the original post).
@broken man I’m not a lawyer or jurist, but I think the crucial point for relinquishment isn’t your right to expatriate (you always have that right under renunciation), it’s the dating of expatriation that may be at issue. The same law you quote also states that expatriation SHALL occur if you take out foreign citizenship (for example), but only if that was done freely and with intent to relinquish. It’s that last point that may be the “sticking point.” I don’t think anyone can argue with intent to relinquish if someone swears an oath of renunciation in front of a consular officer. It’s the other expatriating acts, and the dating thereof, that become problematic if you can’t demonstrate intent at the time or by actions (or lack of actions) thereafter.
Ultimately this may take a court ruling to decide, but chasing court rulings especially to the US Supreme Court can get to be horribly expensive.
schubert1975 – Thanks for your detailed paragraphs pursuing the “preponderance of evidence” blather. In my experience, preponderance of evidence is pure bunkum, as you yourself suggest. If there can be no iota of evidence falling into the scale pan for continued association, then there is no weighing. The US scalawags are just out to declare that they will exact that $450 fee if they can figure out any way to do so. Decades of no residence, never ever voting in the US, and a pre-1994 Canadian citizenship are not enough to “outweigh” the superficialities (and compliance!) of having filed the tax and reporting paperwork and obtained the required passport. In other words, taking care not to be viewed as illegal and prosecutable. Even though Canadian citizenship was obtained under conditions of “no guarantee” that US citizenship would not be lost – and undertaken with that understanding. Again, preponderance of evidence is nothing but smarmy one-sided pretense that process and exercise of judgment exist, when they clearly do not. “Intent” is not a binary, and it is an insane standard of subjective evidence.
Thank you for the clarification. On the point of being a minor when citizenship was attained, at present, my child is far too young to be taken seriously about giving up US citizenship, but I hope Child will be able to after turning 16 by which time Child will have been a citizen of Canada for at least five years and will have spent more than 3/4ths of life in Canada. Renouncing though seems to be the only path open for someone who expatriated as a minor, and how does one get around the passport for travel in the US issue since it is more and more likely that persons with US birthplaces will be hassled or barred at the border? My husband (who is Canadian) thinks we should just forgo renewing Child’s passport when next it comes due and take our chances. He’s fine with not visiting my family in the States. lol.
My big fear for Child though is that the US will have found a way to make giving up citizenship next to impossible before Child is an adult. Paranoid? I was just visiting of late and the vibes are just strange down there. Sometimes I wish I could be someone who didn’t pay attention to the direction things in the world are heading. Blissful ignorance must be nice.
*Questions about relinquishment: Lived in Canada as Canadians since 1968 (landed immigrants) and 1974 (Canadian citizenship) and myself and my wife are likely going to relinquish later this year in Calgary – looks like they have tons of open appointments and very short waiting time.
Do we need two separate appointments to do this?
What documents do we need to have with us (ie birth certificate, marriage certificate and/or…….?).
Should we contact the Calgary consulate after making an appointment for futher information?
Anything else we need to know?
Any help appeciated!
Woofy,
The Calgary Consulate booked back-to-back appointments for me and my husband for renunciations. When I first tried to book, I had difficulty with the online method. Try booking under “notarial services”. I believe they only book on specific afternoons. If you don’t hear back within a short time, here is the email address I used to correspond with them, which worked well: Calgary-ACS@state.gov.
There are two relinquishments reported for Calgary, http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/. All appointments reported for both renunciations and relinquishments in Calgary have required one appointment only.
There are reports of the experiences of the two Calgary relinquishments (one of whom has received a CLN) in the Consulate Directory, pages 18 and 19: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/.
*Does the CLN certificate they issue have a document number (ie like the other form you have to fill out to get it)? What exactly does the CLN look like and say?
*@Woofy, you can find the Certificate of Loss of Nationality as the pdf file at
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81609.pdf
@Woofy,
From Pacifica, earlier:
pacifica777
January 13, 2013 at 8:50 pm
@Roger,
Here’s a link to the CLN on the State Dept’s website. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81609.pdf
I just took a look at mine:
The CLN was filled in by the consul, who signed and dated it and affixed the seal of the consulate at the bottom.
Then in Washington, that blank box in the upper right hand corner was rubber stamped in blue ”Approved – Overseas Citizens Services – Department of State – By CA/OCS/ACS/WHA” and the approval date was rubber stamped there in black.
As for your question about if they’re numbered, no serial number appears on it.
I agree with you that undoubtedly they must keep statistics on how many are issued.
I would find it interesting if they released statistics on how many are issued each year — and also break that down with stats indicating the years in which the actual loss of citizenship occurred. Not sure that’s worded clearly — I’m referring to the backdated CLNs — like how many CLNs issued last year are based on 1970 loss of citizenship, how many on 1971, etc. As suddenly they’re dealing with issuing CLNs with effective dates going back 50 or 60 years because so few people ever heard of CLNs until fairly recently, let alone needed one.
From what I’ve read in the past year, I have a feeling that people in the US might be quite shocked to learn that that termination of US citizenship has been occurring, probably pretty steadily, throughout history (or at least our lifetimes), as well as suddenly skyrocketing.
Further to signing, dating and (non-)numbering of CLNs:
for historical interest, my CLN (from 1976) was on a different-looking form, but otherwise the sealing and approvals were essentially the same — except in 1976 the Washington approval wasn’t by the alphabet-soup string, which I don’t think existed then, the final approval was stamped, signed and dated by the Director of the Passport Office (which is why I have assumed that they always check with the passport office before approving a CLN and why being in possession of a US passport after committing an expatriating act might be taken as a refutation of your intention to relinquish, though we’ve heard recently of at least two cases where that isn’t so). It is reasonable to assume that you won’t get a CLN if they figure out you’re holding onto a valid US passport after your interview, and it also seems reasonable to assume that once a CLN has been issued to you, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hades you’ll be able to get a US passport application approved unless that CLN is revoked on your appeal and their approval.
My CLN isn’t numbered either, so probably they haven’t been numbering them for at least the past 36 years and maybe as far back as whenever they started issuing them.
For whatever it’s worth, my 1976 CLN isn’t “graced” by the eagle and US coat of arms up at the top, that wasn’t part of the form’s layout. But then, they didn’t require my presence before a vice-consul and a US flag in an interview, either, even though at the time I lived about a 20-minute walk from their embassy. Times have changed.
Re: numbering CLN’s, Schubert,
They’re either not smart enough to do such a sensible thing…
Or, they’re smart enough to be doing just that on purpose. Improper accounting and reporting of the numbers has worked pretty good for them so far.
*Thanks, Y’awl. Much obliged!
@Calgary
LOL. Actually I suspect it’s a mixture of the first explanation, coupled with the likelihood that in 1976 they didn’t issue a whole lot of CLNs and didn’t see any point in numbering them. In fact, one Brocker reported being told by someone in the Toronto Consulate a while ago that in 2010 Toronto only got 5 CLN cases for the whole year. I suspect that now Toronto is probably averaging at least that number every business day, maybe more, never mind what the world total is now running to (I seem to recall one of our Swiss friends reporting recently that the embassy in Bern was also getting about that number every day). They probably figure it’s kind of late to start numbering them now, and yes also maybe it’s just as well they aren’t numbering them, from a PR standpoint.
*I can hardly wait for the next list of expatriates to appear in the Federal Register, for the last quarter of 2012. It should be out by mid February and should be a long list. As far as we know, that’s all that the US govt provides as a comprehensive list of CLN receivers, and as I determined earlier when I combined the lists for 2009-2012, the list has been prone to errors — a fair number of duplicate names but an unknown number of omissions.
I haven’t received my CLN yet; so my name probably won’t be on the latest list. But I’m expecting my CLN this quarter of 2013 and will be interested to see whether an old relinquisher like me (late 1970s) will appear on the Federal Register list later this year. If not, then we will know they are under-reporting what’s happening now as far as issuance of CLNs is concerned.
@Schubert
I was told by a Toronto consulate employee that the normal number of renunciations per year in Toronto was 5. This was in October 2011. When I went to pick up my CLN in September 2012, the I said something that I don’t quite recall to the cashier and her reply was that she did not know why people were renouncing but that there were so many.
I believe it was AnonAnon who mentioned somewhere a number of 200 from Toronto but cannot remember whether a time period was given, where the number came from, etc.
@Schubert
I was told by a Toronto consulate employee that the normal number of renunciations per year in Toronto was 5. This was in October 2011. When I went to pick up my CLN in September 2012, I said something that I don’t quite recall to the cashier and her reply was that she did not know why people were renouncing but that there were so many.
I believe it was AnonAnon who mentioned somewhere a number of 200 from Toronto but cannot remember whether a time period was given, where the number came from, etc. I just now noticed his/her comment above. Maybe can fill us in?
*@nobledreamer,
Sorry, I wasn’t the one estimated 200 relinquishments (including renunciations) for Toronto. I think someone may have come up with that from the number of appointment slots available, I don’t know how good an estimate that is. Also, the Federal Register list is an aggregate from all over the world and list only names, not where people applied for their CLNs, and its accuracy is questionable, too. So it’s hard to get really good data about total relinquishments in each time period. That’s probably intentional on the part of the State Department, because the numbers would be embarrassing to them. 🙂
Finally, since it’s not clear from my pseudonym, I’m male.
Best wishes.
I am very confused as to whether or not I am a US Citizen or not. I was born in the US to 2 Canadian citizens. We were living in the US at the time because my father, a Canadian Army Officer, was posted to a US military base as a “liason officer”. I do have a US birth certificate but I also have a “Canadian Born Abroad” certificate. At that time I was a dual citizen. We moved back to Canada before I was a year old and I have never lived in the US since. I am getting conflicting information as to whether or not I am still a US citizen. If I am, can I relinquish based on the fact that I have never lived there since birth? As a kid I was told that at 18 I would lose the US citizenship if I did not live in the US, but in my 20s I was told by a US embasy employee that I would be a US citizen for life. I am also a Federal Government employee (since 2001), would that be grounds for relinquishing? I did read something about working for a foreign government but I wondered if that mean more about “governing” rather than just being a federal employee. If I understand correctly I would much rather relinquish than renounce since I believe renounciation requires filing of taxes for a certain number of years (was it 3 or 5??). I am very afraid of asking anyone official for advice because I have been trying very hard to keep my name away from US officials in case it turns out that I am still a US citizen and should be filing back taxes and FBARs.
Thoughts? Do I qualify for relinquishment? Can I back date it? To when? 2001?
“I would much rather relinquish than renounce since I believe renounciation requires filing of taxes for a certain number of years.
No – you don’t have to file US taxes in order to renounce. Renunciation is more straightforward, and they both cost the same. If you haven’t been filing US taxes, no need to start.
However, it sounds like you could relinquish if that’s what you prefer.
“I am very afraid of asking anyone official for advice because I have been trying very hard to keep my name away from US officials in case it turns out that I am still a US citizen and should be filing back taxes.”
No need to be afraid, but there’s no point in asking. Nobody official can tell you that you don’t have to file US taxes; but you don’t.
I thought relinquishing was easier….a more straightforward process. Plus I would be able to back date it, correctly? I just don’t know which ACT is my act of relinquiment. Was it when I turned 18 (in 1989) or when I began work as a civil servant (2001)?
Mind you, I also wonder at my US citizenship in the first place. Since my father was working for and being paid by the Canadian Military at the time (just at a US location) rather than working for the American Military (or other American business) I’m just not sure how the US can have any claim on me at all.
It’s all so overwhelming. I don’t know who/where to go.
“I’m just not sure how the US can have any claim on me at all.”
Jus soli – if you’re born in the US, you’re a citizen, unless your parent was a diplomat.
But they don’t try to enforce it – it’s just that your birthplace means you’re classed as a citizen unless you have renounced and acquired a CLN. The CLN lets them make sure you can’t renounce but still claim you’re a citizen.
Welcome to IBS. You will get advice, some of it conflicting. Many of us have been down this road.
The US state department will almost certainly tell you you are still a citizen.
Working for a foreign government at a policy level is considered a relinquishing act especially if you take an oath of allegiance. everything depends on intent. i.e. when you began working for the feds did you intend to give up your US ness. Difficult to prove one way ot the other. Intent is supposed to be proven by subsequent actions. Since you did nothing to avail yourself of any US benefits, your would think your intent was obvious. BUT some vice consuls have been real assholes and argued you can’t give up something you didn’t think you had.
Second path to follow. Renouce but do not file anything. This is not the advice you will get from a lawyer or accountant. Many have done exactly this. You are not in their system and they have no way of getting to you unless you volunteer.
Path number three. Do nothing. If asked by a financial institution, you are Canadian only.
The only downside is possible harassment at the border. Has this happened to you so far? Harassment by border guys seems to be a completely random event.
Above all, take time, don’t panic and try not to worry.