We’ve all heard about Shiprider and the expectation of US police on our soil. Here’s the latest from the CBC:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/07/10/cross-border-policing-integration-sovereignty.html
RCMP Supt. Warren Coons, director of the Integrated Border Enforcement Teams, stressed that the cross-designated American officers “have to be under the direction and control of a Canadian law enforcement officer” when the vessel crosses into Canadian waters. Similarly, Canadian officers are under the direction of the U.S. Coast Guard officer if they enter U.S. territory.
“Sovereignty is something I take very seriously, and I understand the concerns that Canadian citizens have, because quite frankly I had those same concerns, and so do the U.S. officers,” Coons said. “But having said that, safeguards are in place to ensure that U.S law enforcement officers are not allowed to conduct law enforcement activity in Canada unless they’re strictly under the direction and control of Canadian law enforcement officers.”
But critics aren’t so satisfied. Before the law was passed, the NDP argued that the issue was too important to be included in the omnibus bill and should have been voted on separately.
“This is a highly controversial integrated border enforcement program that jeopardizes Canadian sovereignty and potentially compromises the personal privacy of individual Canadians,” wrote NDP MP Brian Masse, critic for Canada-U.S. border issues.
“A program that cedes sovereignty, reduces privacy and requires significant new investment must be fully debated and understood prior to its implementation,” he said.
Who is Coons kidding? Do these people really think they are going to control US police? Have they seen the video of Rodney King’s beating? Police brutality is hardly a secret in the US. Is the CDN govt naive enough to think that if we ask nicely, the US is going to behave and refrain from overstepping their bounds? Shall we expect Congress to continue it’s ridiculous actions to go after expats for more money, by allowing police to go after the “cheats?” Schumer already believes he has the right to keep us out forever. He finds us “despicable.”
So far, the government has revealed few details about the land-based version of the plan. The Beyond the Border plan, agreed to by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S President Barack Obama in 2011, had called for two land-based pilot projects to begin this summer.
Government officials will only say that consultations are continuing, with the possibility of pilot projects starting no earlier than the fall.
I wonder why the government has not released details about the land-based version. Could it be they realize how Canadians will react to this information? It’s bad enough that they’ve managed to sneak this through and claim there was public involvement. What a crock. Canadians should be made aware of this situation and make Harper deal with the mess he has started. Just the same as Canadians should be made aware of the fact that they will pay for how FATCAT is implemented by Canadian banks. I still grimace when I recall a conversation I had with a Scotiabank official. I had asked him when they planned to start informing their customers of what will be required when opening new accounts, etc. I asked him if W8BENs/W9’s would simply accompany any new applications. He thought they would. But more disheartening, I asked him if the banks would simply raise rates on their services to cover the horrendous cost of compliance and he said “Of course.”
What will it take to get Canadians good and mad enough to start challenging the government about this?
A long time ago I sent an email to my M.P. in which I stated how foolish this agreement would be for Canada to enter into with the U.S. I have never received a response to this letter from his office.
This is stupid and unnecessary for border security. Better to let a few drug runners go free than to cede any amount of Canadian sovereignty to the members of Congress who can care less about the rule of law. Canada is still trying to make nice with a country that can’t see why any other country should continue to exist, least of all Canada.
I agree. It is completely stupid and unnecessary. I think there are still people in the US who think the 911 hijackers came via Canada. We are viewed as “soft” and certainly not as vigilant. It’s not about the US tracking US criminals trying to escape to Canada. It’s about butting it’s ugly head where it doesn’t belong. GRRRRRRRR
Would this still apply in Canada or could the US come onto Canadian soil for these purposes?:
Penalties imposed under FBAR will not be collected by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA).
The Canada-United States Income Tax Convention contains a provision which allows for the collection by a country of taxes imposed by the other country, including civil penalties. This provision does not apply to penalties imposed under laws, such as the US. Bank Secrecy Act, that impose only a reporting requirement (as opposed to those that impose taxation along with reporting requirements).
Also, the CRA does not and will not collect the us. tax liability of a Canadian citizen if the individual was a Canadian citizen at the time the liability arose (whether or not the individual was also a U.S. citizen at that time).
*No. You are a little over the top with this fear.
@Calgary411- it still applies. As I understand it the U.S. law enforcement would not have any authority to roam Canadian streets looking for Canadian citizens who also happen to be U.S. citizens.
The law is suppose to allow law enforcement agencies from both countries the power to pursue criminals who have crossed the border into the other country. But the pursuit is not an unaccompanied one.
@recalcitrant and @Cornwalliscal,
Just checking — thanks for your input. Schubert’s quote on paranoia stays in my mind though.
If US officers can come up to Canada and arrest people here in Canada, does anyone still think that the treatment that Robert Leone received is irrelevant to our concerns at Isaac Brock?
Can the US officers who arrest a suspect within Canadian boundaries take the person back to the United States to lay charges or does the arresting US agents have to hand over the suspect over to Canadian authorities for extradition? What if the alleged crime is not even illegal in Canada? Like taking your boxes out of your Ontario office (cf. Conrad Black).
If US officers can come into Canada under the authority of Canada, how long is it going to take before they start entering our country without permission? Do they already have secret agents here in Canada who operate without the knowledge of the Canadian government?
@Petros,
Your questions speak to the concern in the article regarding the lack of definition of what will take place in the land phase of the agreement. I can understand people will want to believe that the agreement only applies to criminals, terrorists who are trying to escape, cross the border and so on. That is the same kind of implicit trust that we all had before we had heard of FUBAR, OVDI, the fact we had to pay taxes and so on. Fool me once…….
I just read the entire thread about Robert Leone. I fail to understand why so many object to it. We have many talented authors who provide a lot of thought-provoking materials and there is a very wide range of topics covered here. Anyone who spends time here can readily observe that. To worry that someone may visit, see only hysteria and fear and write us all off, therefore, we should not deal with such topics? What is that?
With regard to crossing the border/FBAR and the assurance we have about that not happening, and no collection of taxes from those who were CDN at the time the tax was incurred; what about the USCs here who are not CDN? Is it really that much of a stretch to wonder if the US would feel those are criminals who could be included in the scope of their operations? I don’t think so. Remember how some have written that 8938 will be a whole different ballgame since IRS will have direct control of how it deals with non-compliance, errors, etc? I believe we have examined this before, and there are no extradition agreements regarding taxes, etc. Rather than make that moot, it suggests to me a very large opportunity for the US to overreach, which it clearly is very good at.
I also don’t see how the argument that s**t happens everywhere erases the need to see clearly, the abuses of power the US/policy/military are guilty of. If anything, do we forget that the US is supposed to be the good guy? The one who is above all that? The one who is supposed to set the example? I don’t think it would be healthy to ever forget Rodney King, Robert Leone, the abuses at Abu Garib, the water-boarding at Gitmo, the drones sent to kill Americans, (criminals/terrorists or not, the idea is that all are entitled to a fair trial). We have a President who gives orders to assassinate people and last but not least, we invade the airspace of a country without so much as a mention that we are doing so? It is not off-topic. It very much resonates with the broader picture of what IBS is about. It’s great we’ve discovered a lot about how to renounce, file the forms and so on. It’s nice we have empathy for each other. But it seems to me we also try to address the issues that have changed the US from being the great place we came from to the state it is in today.
The Harper government has not approached this in an appropriate way; the NDP is greatly concerned. I see no reason at all to assume the US will stay within the confines of our understanding of the program. I expect they will do what they do really well, i.e., assume their intentions are unquestionably the right ones and they will do whatever the hell they want to do. It is reasonable to have concerns about that.
When Canada starts paying some sort of tribute ($$$) to the US, then you can get scared.
Amazing isn’t it? Some of us left the US because we didn’t like it, and it’s soooo hard to get that place out of our lives.
Does the hubris of this country know no bounds? I thought that the UK-US Extradition Treaty was already bad enough, now this? I find myself sometimes wishing that the US would just implode on itself so that it would be forced to just mind its own business and stop trying to police the whole world. FATCA would hopefully die as well.
@geeez- I feel the same way.
@don pomodoro- I have long ago concluded that the issue is now what would the world do without the U.S. but how can the world SURVIVE the presence of the U.S.?
The U.S. needs to subscribe to the motto of; do no harm.
@Petros, and @nobledreamer. I agree that is is not a stretch to see that the same US arrogance and unlimited sense of entitlement backed by power, would exhibit itself given the license (even limited) to operate in any way across into Canada. I think Canada would find itself hard put to effectively monitor and control US actions. If/ or maybe I should say, when there is an abuse of the access to Canadian soil, would the federal government take the US to task, or would the first impulse be to try and gloss over it because they wouldn’t want to look bad for enabling the US by entering into the agreement, and also, to try and avoid an investigation might have potential to create a diplomatic crisis, and domestic backlash. It would be Canadian personnel’s word against the US. That is if there were any witnesses at all. Or any willing to come forward. There are always potential problems and always the need for checks and balances when a state authorizes their own domestic police and armed forces to use force. Witness recent problems with police actions, coordination, accountability and chain of command during the G20 in Toronto. Who would control, restrain and investigate any actions of US personnel? How would Canada ensure accountability and transparency? What sanctions and recourse would exist? Would the US just say that their personnel were only subject to examination by US courts?
I think it is healthier in this case to be skeptical and suspicious.
What do you think of this new “technology” / is it just fearmongering or otherwise?
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/07/11/new-homeland-security-laser-scanner-reads-people-at-molecular-level/
@calgary
This is unfortunately the future. I posted awhile back about how the US is also exploring the application of “pre-crime” technologies such as in Minority Report. I do wonder whether or not we will all be given hospital frocks to wear and not allowed to bring anything on in carry-on baggage in the near future. Maybe combine that with de-contamination showers as well before boarding!
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“When Canada starts paying some sort of tribute ($$$) to the US, then you can get scared”
We already do. We made concessions on softwood lumber, we signed the Free Trade agreement at gunpoint to our detriment…hell how much more do we have to do before it’s considered “tribute” in your books?