Snowbirds may become an extinct species, at least within the borders of the United States. Few outsiders know this but Canadians live in igloos year round. Snowbirds are Canadians who seek warmer climate, especially during their retirement years. They have been a significant boon to the real estate markets in Southern states, especially Florida, but one should not forget places like my Dad’s trailer park in San Benito where numerous Winter Texans can play year-round golf and outdoor tennis. Mostly, they spend their enormous retirement wealth that it took many years working in Canada to earn. Expect the snowbirds to start flying further south, to places like Cayman Islands, Mexico, or Costa Rica, anywhere outside the reach of the IRS taxman.
It is no exaggeration to say that United States border guards now have had tax enforcement added to their list of duties. A few months back at the Expat Forum, Omater wrote a little anectdote (now apparently censored), still unverified:
I just got back from my local CGA who is doing our business tax return. He bought a house in the US at about the same time I did. I told him about my trip next week and he advised that I take copies of my last 6 tax returns, which I had already decided to do.
He said that last October a good friend of his who is a dual citizen as well as a CPA and CGA was headed to the US to visit family. They scanned his passport and told him that he could not board his plane for failure to file tax returns. The thing about this guy is that he had always filed his returns in a timely manner, every year since he had landed in Canada. He had to get his office staff to find 6 years of tax returns and fax them to wherever he was at the airport. By the time that happened he had missed his plane.
This is the only verifiable account I have heard of somebody being refused entrance to a plane headed for the states.
Numerous commenters considered the above story to be an urban myth. But Omater now offers a couple more stories of Canadians–not US citizens–who are planning to sell their US condos as a result of the recent crackdown and the hassles that they are receiving from border guards (emphasis mine):
The stories I am hearing first hand are not about United States Citizens, but about Canadians. I had taken a water aerobic class and was sitting in the hot tub afterwords when one woman talking to another woman got louder and louder about being stopped at the border on the way to Palm Springs and were told that they had to file a US tax return. She was very angry and said they would give the place away before they filed a tax return to the IRS when it was none of their business, taxes or no taxes.
A few weeks ago I took my dog to the vet and she asked where in the south I was from. She then told me she had done her residency in Memphis, my home town. I asked her if she had used a green card and she said no and, “Thank God”. She started telling me about her uncle who had a place in Arizona where he and his wife spent 6 months per year, mostly because of his allergies. This year they were headed down and were stopped at the border and told that they had been flagged as being required to file a tax return on their worldly income. When her uncle told them they never spend more than the 6 month allotted time, they were told that they could visit 6 months but would have to file a tax return based on a formula that would basically only allow them a few months per year otherwise. I once read that it worked out to around 120 days. (I am sure you know what I am talking about here.) However, the formula that these people were told about only allowed them a few months per year over a three-year period. Everybody is pretty livid that they will be required to pay tax and to expect no benefit in return. I asked the vet how the IRS knew about her uncle and she didn’t know.
People are talking about selling as soon as the economy allows them to. We just bought a place last April, before I heard of FATCA and FBAR and thankfully we bought cheap. I hate it but we will have to sell. We had hoped to have 6 months a year in our little villa for retirement. I am not sure what we will do now, but it will not be in the states. I can tell you, we spent a lot of money down there. It will be a loss to a depressed little community whose people are always grateful for our business.
I talked to several Real Estate brokers and agents there and I wonder why they are not flying off the handle about this! If they think things are bad now, just wait until the last Canadian leaves Florida, California and Arizona!
Thanks for all you do!
The words, “they had been flagged” provides further proof that this is a systematic usage of border guards to enforce taxes. I would like to track down when the border guards started doing the IRS’ dirty work. Which POTUS approved this crack down? Was it Obama, Bush, or did it start earlier than these two?
i have tried to post twice, I lost 2 comments.. comments were not added.
ok, I logged out and logged back in:
Alex – pools of capital – http://blog.do-business-in-china.com/2011/06/10/visas-lure-foreigners-seeking-u-s-residency-real-estate/
how to go from student visa to citizenship:
http://voices.yahoo.com/how-foreign-students-us-citizenship-484339.html?cat=17
I know a few people who did this. Others I know were hired on H1B visas. I told them all the downsides of being a US citzenship should they ever leave. Who knows if they’ll listen to me.
Someone doesn’t need US Citzenship or even Permanent residency in the US to have a house there and live there for several months out of the year. A “B Visa” is sufficient:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa
The REAL people who want to immigrate to the US come from unfortunate countries. Check out these stats from the Visa lottery:
“Taking into account dependents, there are more than 10 million participants in the 2008 Diversity Visa Lottery. Most of the applications were from Africa and Asia: 41 percent of the total came from Africa, 38 percent from Asia, 19 percent coming from Europe, and two percent from South America, Central America, and the Caribbean. The largest number of applicants came from Bangladesh (more than 1.7 million applicants) followed by Nigeria (684,735) and Ukraine (619,584).”
Yeah, a whopping 2% (two percent) from South America and 41% from Africa. Who wants to move to the US? Probably lots of Eritreans! 🙂
Peter – something is going on.. it’s not accepting my comments. I have some good stats for Alex.
@geeez — They were in spam. I have un-spammed.
@geeez, There are lots of foreign citizens with green cards who have lived in the US for many years but have never become US citizens and they never will. The only real advantage is that as a citizen you can vote. But there is one disadvantage if you are not a citizen. If you are conviced of a felony then you can be deported to back from where you come from, after you complete your sentrence.
There is no forgiveness for that. When that law was enacted a significant number of foreign citizens – long term resididents were deported, evn though they had long since completed their sentences, learned their lessons and become upstanding residentents in their community. This is one law that was made retroactive so no matter how long ago you had been in trouble and how exemplary your life had been since, you were on the list to be rounded up and deported. It happened to a good friend of mine, a Haitian. As a teenager he was arrested for a drug offence and went to prison. Thirfty years later after his US born children were adults, he was stopped for a routine traffic stop, his name was on the deportation list. He was deported. His wife joined him in Haiti and they now operate a business there. But he can never enter the US again. Had he become a US citizen he would still be here.
I would like to know why my comments are not showing up here? When I posted it, it didn’t show here. Then when I tried to post the same comment again, it said “Duplicate: You’ve already said that.”
I’m just trying to post some stats showing Alex that people from South America don’t really care about US Citizenship….
The statistics I wanted to provide the link for (wikipedia Visa Lottery), show that the majority of people who want to get a permanent visa to the US are Africans. Next Asians. Only 2% of the Visa Lottery applications came from South America.
Even my own Brazilian wife remembers a time when Brazilians really wanted to work in the US and they were able to make a lot of money. Things are different now.
@geeze..
That has happened to Moby too. There is some spam filtering on Word Press, and for some reason some comments drop into it. That means one of the Administrates, Petros is one, has to look for it, and pull it out and post it. Hopefully he will see this, and bring it back into the open. It is a glitch, so to speak.
@geez. I have sent him two messages off line.
@geeze,
Do you remember the TV series in Brazil titled America? Stories abrout Brazilians who had immigrated illegallhy to the US? is it still being broadcast? I believe it was on Rede Globo.:
Here are some thoughts on why there are so manhy Canadians with dual citizenship entering the US:
It just occurred to me why there are so many Canadians which the US regards as US citizens that are entering the US with Canadian passports which indicae they were born in the US:
That is because Canada is a visa-waiver country, so Canadians, with a valid Canadian passport, can enter the US any time they please.
But if you are a dual US citizen from Mexico, Brazil or from any other country which is not a Visa Waver country, you must have a visa issued by a US consulate stamped in your foreign passport in order to enter the US.
And if you go to a US consulate abroad and your foreign passport indicates you were born in the US, the consulate will refuse to issue a US visa and stamp it in your passport. Why? Because you are a US citizen. So the only way you can travel and enter the US is with a US passport. So instead of a visa in your foreign passport you will be issued a US passport upon presentation of a valid US birth certificate. Absolutelly no US consular official will stamp a US entry visa in the foreign passport of a person who also holds US citizenship.
Canada I believe is the only visa waver country in the Western Hemisphere. Argentina was for a while, but no longer is.
@geeez, @Just Me,
I un-spammed geeez’s comments — so they now appear in the commentary to this thread.
You’re right, Just Me. Someone has to physically go in each time online and look at all the spam that has accumulated, then take appropriate steps to un-spam.
Apologies, geeez. I think I also freed Moby from spam earlier today or yesterday.
Roger. Yes, indeed. I know of a case where a Brazilian girl married an American guy. I met both of them personally in Rio Janeiro about 4-5 years ago before they got married.
They both live in the US now. The Brazilian wife went to the university and now has an excellent job. I’m very proud of her.
The best thing she can do is become a US citizen to avoid the potential complication that you mentioned, especially if she starts having children.
When I say that I don’t want US Citizenship, it’s due to the headaches we get by living overseas. Journalists say that “we are selling out our country” or “we don’t want to pay our taxes”. This is complete rubbish. But just because I don’t want US Citizenship doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t recommend it for other people.
Thanks Calgary.
Roger – “America” was a novela (soap opera) that aired shortly before I arrived here. Yep, I understand the situation you are talking about, but that’s why there is a very strong chance I’ll have a CLN in hand when I ask for a tourist visa. All I’m waiting for is to know my citizenship documents are being processed in Brasilia before I go renounce because I don’t want to be stateless for too long.
And no, the stateless thing doesn’t scare me one bit because a stateless person can still travel on documents issued where they are a resident. Being stateless won’t affect my life 1 drop where I live because I do everything as a Brazilian and not an American. My US passport is getting moldy because I never use it.
But the documents for Stateless people cost A LOT more and are only good for a round trip, there and back. It seems like a waste of money to travel as a stateless person. This is the only reason I haven’t renounced yet.
The spam filter sometimes takes out good messages. It is important to us. Because it makes it possible to eliminate messages from people we don’t know. Spam is designed to look like regular comments, and Akismet takes out all of the spam messages of known spammers, but only occasionally good ones too. So we have people who regularly check the spam for the good messages, and we pay attention when we receive e-mails that good messages are being filtered out.
@Roger:
There does exist one obscure exception: Vietnamese who arrived before 1995. Hanoi is not obligated to accept them for deportation; effectively they’re stateless (Here’s the text of the relevant treaty). This is a big issue in the Bay Area now because a guy who couldn’t be deported in 2006 is now back in police custody for a quintuple-murder.
@geeez:
If you’re a corrupt person from a democratic country like Brazil, maybe. If you’re a corrupt person from a dictatorship like Iran or China, it’s easy to stick around in the US by selling them some sob story about how you’re being persecuted for your political views in an “Axis of Evil” country. When of course you’re really being “persecuted” for stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from widows and orphans. ICE are very famous for their extremely lax investigations the source of the funds used to apply for EB-5 visas. And “treaty investor” (E-2) visas don’t even require you to make a token attempt at proving lawful source of funds. The U.S. does not really give a damn about its obligations under the UN Convention Against Corruption. Like the State Department claims:
Also, the naturalization rate in the U.S. has been falling for many years. Divergent Trends in Citizenship Rates Among Immigrants in Canada and the United States:
U.S. citizenship is simply no longer as attractive as Homelanders think it is. Here’s a Chinese article from last month about the reasons behind this phenomenon. Google Translate does an okay job on it, surprisingly.
@Just Me, re earlier comments about the Accounting Today story – sorry about boiling your blood! Thanks though for making that reply. I was just flabbergasted by the quotes from so-called ‘professionals’. Plus, they were not interested in whether those abroad perceived that the system would treat them justly and fairly (and thus comply). Also, about VD programs providing ‘flexibility’ – for who? Did they mean the ‘flexibility’ to fine people into dust – based on the incomprehensible and growing list of forms and requirements – in the absolute absence of any actual tax owing that they could penalize?
And,re; ““But from the tax administrative standpoint, amnesty is a bad idea because it undermines a belief in the justness of the system”
Okay, lets take a poll: does anyone reading here feel that they believe that the current system is just? When all the evidence we have so far is that ‘justice’ is not even part of the design – not even part of the IRS and US intent – just raising revenues however they can. Otherwise, why would it be so problematic to answer the Freedom of Information request by the ACA and others?
By-the-by, what is the progress on that? Bet they release some sketchy useless answer way after the election?
@Eric…
thanks for the Chinese article. I have a good friend who just split her family in two citizenship wise with her getting a US citizenship, and her husband refusing to do the same. They are both living with their US children in Beiing. I tried my hardest to make her reconsider what she was doing. Last I talked with her, she was in SFO sitting outside the Chinese Consulate waiting to get her visitor visa to get back to China. She just made her life so very complicated, but I could not convince her otherwise. Will see her this summer, and see what she is thinking now.
@Badger…
It was good to start the morning fired up and ready to go. I am surprised how quickly I can pound responses out these days, so it didn’t take long. When I started months ago it was more of a chore. I am sure few if any read them, but it makes me feel better.
@Eric, There is anothere exception besides Viet Nam: Cuba. Cuba will not allow Cubans to enter Cuba if deported from the US. Since this is the case, Cubans resident in the US are allowed to stay because Cuba refuses to take them back.
@geeez, get your Brazilian citzenship before you renounce. Having to travel with a Salvoconduto for persons with no citizenship is, so I am told, a real pain. I knew a Russian born in Shangahi when I lived in Brazil who had one before he got Brazilian citizenship. His parents had fled the Soviet Union for China as refugees so they had no citizenship when they all fled to Brazil as Mao was moving to take over Shanghai.
Eric – nice article – translation was not perfect, but I got it. I think seeing an article written by someone from a different culture and in a totally different language, emphasises the “serious” of this US decline
The part I liked best was “Once upon a time, naturalising in the US would allow someone to travel anywhere in the world…..”
Nowadays, any European passport allows someone to travel almost anywhere. Even a Brazilian passport allows someone to travel to Europe visa free.
The world has changed, but the US doesn’t want to accept it. Even more mind-boggling is how the politicians in DC can’t see this.
Roger, yeah, statelessness is a serious issue, and I think countries that allow children to be born stateless should be sanctioned and punished until they change their laws. In many countries in Europe, if the parents are stateless, then the children acquire the natonality of the country. This is the only exception to the jus sangis citizenship that I have found in Europe.
For me, statelessness makes no difference (slapping my hands Brazilian style). I have Brazilian dependents so deportation is only a risk if I were a major Colombian Drug Dealer or I ticked off the wrong politicians, but I am/will do neither. But if I WERE stateless, I would have to go to the US Consulate TWICE, and pay to travel there, and pay for the travel card. It’s not worth it for me yet. Plus, neither my wife, nor my son have passports. We’re not in a hurry because he’s too young to travel.
As far as becoming a citizen of the US, if you ask thousands of the average Brazilians on the street, “Would you like to get a green card to the US?” – After thinking about it for a long time, I bet only one or two would accept it. Why?
Because someone can make money here. AND they have more holidays, they don’t have to learn another language, and they can can stay close to their friends and family. Setting up a life in a different country is VERY HARD and requires a lot of hard work. I think the average Brazilian can see that.
One time I was in a corner bar and in came a Brazilian that naturalised in the US. I talked to him for a while. When he left, a guy that owns a computer store said “I say it all the time, if someone wants to work 2-3 jobs, they will make money here too. You don’t need to go to the US for that.” This is an average small business owner saying this. I’m sure many other Brazilians would agree with him.
Yes billions of people love to go and live in the USA. If the USA opens doors, India alone can contribute a billion immigrants. Out of 1,150 million, under 100 million (about 7 to 8 percent) make enough to file taxes.
But let me tell you another side of the story: I went to a department that processes applications for Indian citizenship. During past few years there is huge spike in applications for Indian citizenship from US citizens. Many of them are well known names and extremely wealthy. In 70s and 80s it was a passion for rich people in India to go to the USA for delivery, to get US citizenship to their children by birth. All most all of them now want to get rid of their citizenship (most people legally, while others illegally by loosing US passports and fabricating Indian birth certificate).
I am sure, there are 10s of thousands of rich people like that. Let me explain one interesting thing. To apply for Indian citizenship, one must live in India for 12 months continuously without any foreign travel. If one goes 1 day to Singapore or Dubai, he must wait for 12 months to apply. It is the hardest requirement for the rich business people. A bill is passed by MPs in lower house and being discussed in higher house, which is introduced by ruling party and supported by main opposition party. Very few bills can have that kind of unanimous support.
Of course, 80% of the people make less than US$10,000 a year and I am sure never have savings over US$10000 in any bank. They loose nothing by becoming US citizens and gain everything (especially considering generous Obamacare and social welfare).
The citizenship officer asked me, why so many people want full Indian citizenship, since most of them have OCI – A kind of dual-citizenship? I told him about unbelievable form requirements and life altering penalties for innocent mistakes, even when there is no tax liability. He said, it is unbelievable. He would not have believed me, if he hadn’t seen how disparate many rich and powerful people are to get Indian citizenship. Since they are rich, they send their executive assistants along with recommendations from power political buddies. I am poor, so I went myself.
In the previous email, I forgot to mention that the bill was to water down the 12 month continuous stay requirement.
@Indian_Expat
That is an interesting story. It has been one I wondered about since 2009. I thought of all those Indians in America who have contributed so much, and now getting caught in the jihad would start walking down jetways going back home. What you are indicating to me, is many are getting citizenship back in India to assure they have an escape route if this nonsense keeps up. Humm… Another story no journalist will ferret out and write about..