929 thoughts on “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 1 of 2”

1. *@Schubert,thanks for the insight. I’ve already recommended Christine Perry from reading on IBS, but that is a decision that my friend has to make for herself. From my perspective, a legal consultation,( if only for tax implications like the 8854),for those contemplating  a relinquishment is not a bad idea if it is from a trustworthy source and not too expensive.  There a lot of opinions on that issue on IBS but another perspective couldn’t hurt. 

2. I am here to report on my consulate meeting.  Early September I contacted the Calgary consulate an email address provided by a Brocker and requested a renunciation appointment. I got an email in response that asked me to “reflect on the gravity and consequences of renouncing your citizenship” and was asked to review some attachments.

   I responded that I would indeed like to proceed and they gave me an appointment for early November. (they only do renunciations on Wednesday and Thursday from 2:15 – 2:45 pm, which explains why I had to wait two months for an appointment. I was asked to complete a questionnaire and send it back to them.

   Fast forward two months and I go the consul.  Arrived way to early and killed some time across the street at the library.  Got to the consulate waiting room where there was probably 30 chairs and a total of 3 of us.  One other guy was renouncing and I am assuming the other guy was but not certain as I was gone before he was called to the window.

   First I was called to a window to pay $450.  The receipt said it was non-refundable so I though it would be interesting if they tried to talk me out of it.  Got called to another window where I had to give them documents.  I gave my current U.S. passport and a notarized copy of my Consular Report of Birth Abroad (I could not find the original).  They would not accept the notarized copy and they also said they needed my American passports from when I was a kid (the ones punched with holes and stamped “cancelled”).  They said I would have to send these to them before my file could be sent to Washington. I also gave them my Canadian passport as proof of Canadian citizenship.

   At this same window I reviewed a form summarizing the consequences of renunciation as well as a form that had the oath I would be signing in front of the consul officer.

   I was then called to another window with the consul officer.  She did not ask me why I was renouncing (but I had submitted a written statement) and did not try to talk me out of it.  Just asked if I had reviewed the two forms from the other window and then I had to raise my right hand. She then asked if I was doing this on my own accord and understood the consequences and I said I did.  Then I just had to sign the oath and another form twice each and that was pretty much it.

3. *Shaggy Z, I find it really surprising the sort of things the Consulates will and will not accept.  Why on earth wouldn’t they accept a notarized copy of your birth abroad and do they really need to have all your old passports?  I wonder how many people still have old passports stored away.  I think I have 2 or 3 of mine, but I’m not sure if I have the first which would have been issued way back in 1965!  If you can’t find the original of your birth abroad certificate, is that going to put the whole process in jeopardy for you?  I sincerely hope not and that you get the coveted CLN through soon.

4. A note about second appointments at the Embassy in Ottawa.  An Embassy
   employee told me that they now have more staff and will be trying to
   reschedule second appointments to earlier dates.  Up until now they have
   been scheduling one appointment a week, and he thought they would be
   moving to two appointments a week.  He didn’t have any details on when
   they would start doing this.

   Thank you, Brockers, for the advice to move my second appointment (scheduled for August, 2013) to Montreal or Toronto.  The staff at the Embassy confirmed that I could do this, but would need to start the process over again.  I agree that if I could get to Montreal or TO that option would still be quicker.

5. @ Medea Fleecestealer,

   Birth certificate: It doesn’t have to be the original one that was originally given to your parents when you were born.  You can request an “original” birth certificate from the state you were born in. Although issued in, say, 2012, it would be considered “original” in that it originates directly from the state.

   Your birth-state’s Department of Health (or whatever Dept handles this stuff in that state) would make a copy of the certificate they have in their records.  This copy would be signed and sealed by the appropriate Dept officer with the current date, making it an original document for legal purposes. 

   I believe the reason they want a original rather than a notarised copy is so that it’s clear to them that the document was not altered, which could be done with a photocopy and a crooked notary.

   Expired Passports:  This is the first I’ve heard of a glitch involving an expired passport.  I know they want your current passport, so it can be physically cancelled. As for expired passports, people often destroy their passport once expired.  If it doesn’t exist, it doesn’t exist.  I really doubt DoS would even replace an expired passport, that sounds absurd to me.  So, if an expired passport doesn’t exist, presumably the consulate would accept your explanation that you had destroyed it. 

6. Congratulations, ShaggyZ!  

   Thank you for your report.  I’ll add it to the directory.  

   I’m sorry that you’ll have a delay while you get/send those documents they requested.  A couple of people have reported they had to send away for their birth certificates and I seem to recall they got them within a couple of weeks (I think Tiger got hers within the week by courier), so hopefully your birth-state also processes requests quickly, and your CLN application will be on its way to DC real soon.

7. @aaa

   “A note about second appointments at the Embassy in Ottawa.  An Embassy employee told me that they now have more staff and will be trying to reschedule second appointments to earlier dates.  Up until now they havebeen scheduling one appointment a week, and he thought they would be moving to two appointments a week.  He didn’t have any details on when they would start doing this.

   Thank you, Brockers, for the advice to move my second appointment (scheduled for August, 2013) to Montreal or Toronto.  The staff at the Embassy confirmed that I could do this, but would need to start the process over again.  I agree that if I could get to Montreal or TO that option would still be quicker.”

   Thanks for the info, aaa.  Interesting/weird, someone reported Ottawa telling them the same thing about 6 months ago, that they were switching from doing only 1 case per week to doing 2 per week. 

   Toronto has 8 appointments left in early December, then it looks like they’re going on Christmas break.  Toronto has been doing 2 meetings for renunciation, but take note that an Embassy official told Calgary411 on the phone yesterday, that earlier this week, they directed the consulates to do only 1 meeting.  (Also, Toronto’s pretty reasonable and even if doing two meetings, they might well, probably would, consider your Ottawa visit to have been your first meeting anyway.  I believe a computer file is kept on each person that is accessible by any consulate.)  It appears that Montreal has already switched to 1 meeting as Patricia reported November 1st that a friend renounced there in one meeting.

8. Thanks for your report, Shaggy Z.  I hope you are able to provide the needed documents to the Calgary Consulate so your file can be sent on to Washington, DC.  Yours is another example of inconsistency (hopefully past!) from one US Consulate to another. As far as I recall from reports here, no one else has said they have been asked to provide all cancelled US passports from the time of birth — why is this?  I am adding your stats to the database being compiled at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/.  Thank you for providing another entry that will help others as they come to Isaac Brock, seeking education for how they will eventually decide to proceed. Everyone’s choice needs to be based on good information (read, read, read / your LCU’s expended). We hope US Persons Abroad of whatever description are finding useful information here. 

9. *Shaggy Z, US persons in Calgary should vote for the consul in Calgary to pack its bags and head south immediately, so that some locals who understand the region can be elected to do the job properly.  Requesting a passport from when one was a kid is insane.

   PS. this post has been edited and censured by me to appear civil!

10. Report on relinquishing at Halifax Consulate- November 2012

    I first contacted the Halifax Consulate by email to request information on relinquishing. After a reasonable period of time I was sent an email with forms DS 4079, DS 4080 and DS 4081 as well as information sheet regarding what documents were required. I completed 4079 and 4081 and sent them by mail back to the Consulate along with the required documents.

    Eight days after my papers were received by the Consulate I received a call from a very pleasant person, asking if I could come in the next morning to meet the Consul. As I live 4 ½ hours away from the Consulate and was not expecting an appointment so soon, I had to delay the appointment for several weeks until I could spare a day for the long round trip.

    On the day of my appointment I arrived about a half hour early at the Consulate. After going through security I sat down in the very quiet waiting room. No one else was there, nor did anyone else come in while I was at the Consulate. About 15 minutes before the appointment I was called over to one of the windows and asked for the originals of the documents I had sent by mail.

    About 7 minutes before the appointed time I was called over to another, slightly more private window to meet the Consul. He passed 2 copies of 4079 under the glass for me to sign, and then 2 copies of 4081. Before signing 4081 he asked if I wanted to read that form over. I replied that I was familiar with its contents and then signed.

    After that he quickly went through the process: they would forward the application and documents to Washington for final approval, Washington would send the CLN back to the Consulate and then the Consulate would mail the CLN to me.

    He stated that “relinquishments are easy”.

    Except for being asked if I wanted to read 4081 before signing, the only other question I was asked was if I had any questions. The Consul did not ask any questions about last address in the U.S., why I was requesting a CLN, nothing said about any tax forms, no comments about the worse for wear photo static copy of my birth certificate, etc.

    As I left the Consulate I glanced at my watch. I was finished 2 minutes before the time of my appointment.

    Just a few tips.

    One should specify in any communication that they are seeking a Certificate of Loss of Nationality by virtue of having obtained citizenship of (Country) on (date) with the intent of relinquishing U.S. citizenship (or something to that effect). This will hopefully clear up any misunderstanding about whether you are relinquishing or renouncing.

    And for persons going to Halifax, a friend who works in a building next to the Consulate suggested that least expensive place to park was at the Halifax Casino. I did that, but avoided going into the Casino itself as I felt lucky enough to have had so little difficulty at the Consulate.

    Many thanks to all who have shared their experiences and answered questions about relinquishing.  Because of all the information I had,  I was able to go through the process with very little anxiety or concern.

11. Good news, Hazy!  I’m glad to hear it sounds like you had a very good experience. Thanks for your detailed report, lots of useful information there. I’ll add it to the directory today or tomorrow.

12. *

    @ Hazy

    I’m glad your relinquishment appointment went well. I relinquished in Calgary in October so I was glad to hear that the consular office in Halifax said “relinquishments are easy” – hope that means that they are rubber stamped in Washington and CLN’s will arrive in reasonable time.

    @ Shaggy Z

    Bizarre about the expired passports being required. Not everyone is going to hang onto expired passports and especially from that long ago- if your parents didn’t keep them, they didn’t keep them and what are you supposed to do about that. It just seems that requirements are so arbitrary in consulates across the country (and the world, I guess)

13. Shaggy: Congratulations! I agree with the others here about how strange it is they ask for your expired passports. And if you have a current passport then why do they need a copy of your birth abroad report? In Copenhagen they didn’t require anything except my current passport.

14. For anyone who has decided to renounce/relinquish, and wants to get the whole tax ordeal over with, rather than giving themselves more time, there’s a strong case for doing it before the end of the year. FWIW.

15. @Schubert & Swiss Pinoy,

    I was told I simply could not have a bank account in the US-I was trying to avoid losing a lot on the exchange from US-CDN.The reason for this was that I did not have a US address and was told I could not use my sister’s as that would jeopardize the bank (AML). She said all accounts had to be opened in person and even if I had a US address, I would have to be physically there.

16. Thanks for the feedback.  I think if I had told them I no longer had the expired passports then that would have been ok.  But when they found out I did still have them then they needed them.

    I asked the clerk what would hypothetically happen if I could not locate the original Consular Report of Birth Abroad.  She said I would need to send them a letter explaining.  I hope that works ok because after several hours of looking I cannot find it.

    I’m wondering if they are worried that after I renounce I’ll pretend to be American using my Consular Report or old passports??

17. @Shaggy Z

    You wouldn’t be able to use old passports for travel and once you’ve completed the process, those will show as invalid for indentification purposes as well.

    My son appears to have lost his Consular Report of Birth Abroad as well as his Certificate of Birth Abroad. Would love to hear how they deal with that – just a letter?

18. *

19. Hi Rose,

    Thanks for your report!  You’re the first one we’ve got from Australia.  I’m glad to hear it went smoothly and quickly.  I put your report in the directory under “Australia (unspecified consulate).”  

    Thanks again, Hazy and Shaggy Z, 

    I’ve put yours in directory today, too.  As you probably gathered from the site, I was rather, er, distracted from duty, celebrating my newly-arrived CLN this weekend!

    To all,

    If you ever want to edit or delete your report, you can post that as a comment here or e-mail me, my address is in the last sentence of the original post.

20. My husband and I are back home – a beautiful day for a walk to and from a US Consulate in Calgary, AB, Canada. Everything was straight-forward and went smoothly.

    We got to the Consulate a little early and waited in front of the camera in the lobby across from the Security Desk. Someone soon came down and asked if we were us, said we could go get a tea at the restaurant on the main floor and someone would come down for us at 2:00 p.m. That happened – someone actually came into the little restaurant before we got back out to stand in front of the camera and escorted us to the 10th Floor of Rocky Mountain Plaza where the Calgary US Consulate is located.

    Next was the usual ‘airport-type’ security procedure and a short wait in the waiting area to watch CNN, before being called to pay our fees and hand over our passports at one of the windows. We were given Forms 4081 and 4080 to read and understand. The only documentation we presented were our Canadian and US passports. Mine was my only US passport ever issued; my husband said that he had a previous US passport at home; he was asked to mail in.

    A short wait and then we separately went into Booth B where we were greeted by the Vice-Consul and given back our Canadian passports and a second receipt for our $450 (each) fee. We were asked to say why, in our own words, we were renouncing. No judgement was expressed by the Vice-Consul one way or the other. No scenarios of why we might want to reconsider retaining our US citizenship were given.

    Form 4081 (Statement of understanding of consequences) and Form 4080 (Oath of renunciation) were all ready and officially sealed, previously prepared from the information we had sent by email to the Calgary US Consulate. We were asked to read these again to make sure we understood. The Statement of Understanding was signed by each of us. We were then each asked to read aloud our Oath of Renunciation (Form 4080), after which that form was signed. The Vice-Consul lastly signed our Oaths and we were informed of the US ‘alien’ consequences.

    We were told that when the Calgary Consulate gets word from Washington, DC that our renunciations are approved, they will let us know. The Certificates of Loss of Nationality process should take a few months and our CLN’s will arrive by mail shortly thereafter.

    It was all very business-like and an easy process in Calgary.

    I’m also glad to report that no doors hit us on the way out of the Consulate.

    I don’t feel any regret; I do feel a lot of relief to have completed this step.

    (I didn’t make a final decision until this morning not to prepare an additional statement, but that is just what my lawyer had advised.)

    My daughter renounced last month. Alas, no such right for my son.

21. Congratulations Calgary411!  I know you’re glad to have finished this process.  I hope that Calgary maintains its record of pretty-quick (for Canada) approvals and receipts of CLNs.  It’s also good to hear that Calgary is maintaining its reputation of being polite and business-like about the whole process.

    Again, it is outrageous you can’t do this for your son.

22. *@Calgary, Congratulations, Congratulations!!! You must be so happy that this first step is over with.. You are on your way to Freedom!! Yeah!!

23. Congratulations, Calgary411!!!!  I’m so happy — it’s been a long time.  It feels great, eh!  They sound very nice, such as coming down the restaurant to get you, etc — and I like very much that they will call to let you know when it’s approved in DC, as it seems to take 1-2 months to get from DC to your mailbox. Quite considerate.

    “No scenarios of why we might want to reconsider retaining our US citizenship were given.”

    I wonder if they knew, “That’s that Ms. 411 from the internet and her husband coming in at 2 pm.  Guess I can leave out the scenarios part.  No way those two are gonna reconsider.” 🙂

24. @calgary411, glad to hear that you and your spouse will be free. Two more at last!

    I know that your relief will be tempered by the US refusal to budge in the case of your son. At least this frees you from some part of your worries.

    If everyone here would try to make a point of mentioning the case of those prevented from ever being allowed to be free by renouncing/having a guardian/parent renounce for them, to all the Canadian government officials/contacts we speak with/write to, coupled with the FATCA and US extraterritorial taxation issues re RDSPs, I think it will catch official attention – because it is so very obviously outrageous, as Pacifica and others have said. And also an egregious human rights violation – your son should have the same rights to be free of the US burden as anyone else.

25. @ calgary411

    That almost sounded easy peasy. Very happy it went so well. 🙂 Congratulations to you, your husband and your daughter and oh how I wish I could say your son too. Something simply has to be done about that.

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