If you arrive here through an old link, please click here for the Current Thread.
Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 274 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with links to further information and the required Dept of State forms.
Reports are updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
2013.02.12. As of today, this discussion now continues at Part 2. Please click here to go to Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 2.
*@Hijacked, Congratulations! I’m glad to hear that you were able to renounce after not being a citizen for 45 years. It sounds strange that you had to go through this, but it must feel good that it is all over now. I honestly didn’t mind the $450 fee. My bank has been closing the accounts of Americans and if it had closed my account too, then I would have been forced to bank at one of those special “American” accounts which require CPA certification that could cost up to $2000 per year simply so that one can prove that one is US tax compliant with no taxes due. As such, the $450 fee is a bargain from that perspective, also considering the fact that I now have the option of saving maybe up to $15’000 in 10 years by refinancing my mortgage at another bank which doesn’t accept US persons.
*@nobledreamer, I was born in the US with Swiss and US citizenship and served in the US military. So, the US government has my finger prints, genes, etc. A new Swiss passport number wouldn’t make a difference, but I shouldn’t have any problems. I have no criminal record, am tax compliant and will be in debt for the rest of my life, so there is absolutely no reason for any US border agent to be interested in me.
In Switzerland, I am told that I come from a Swiss village. People say that I’m “ancient Swiss” since my last name goes back 700+ years in central Switzerland. When I talk, they figure that I lived in Holland or maybe even Austria, England or Canada. As long as a form doesn’t specifically request for my place of birth, then I’ll probably only need a CLN if I visit the US.
@Hijacked 2012
A belated congratulations on your ‘relinquishment’ at the Calgary consulate. Hopefully your wait for the CLN will not be too long. It sounds like the Calgary consulate is so much more organized and really just easier to deal with. Interesting that they did not even ask you for a marriage certificate and in Vancouver, they not only insisted on my presenting a marriage certificate but it must be the CIVIL marriage certificate and not a CHURCH certificate.
It has now been more than 2 weeks since I sent in the Long Form birth certificate and the Civil marriage certificate to the Vancouver consulate. I have still not heard anything about my second appointment. This consulate in Vancouver is unbelieveably inefficient in my opinion. If this were private business, they would be out of business.
I had been away for 8 days in New York City and had hoped that on my return, there would be an email from the consulate here regarding a second appointment. I continue to wait. The good news is that I had absolutely no trouble crossing the border. I entered the U.S. at Pearson Airport and it was a breeze. No comments about entering with a Canadian passport. I was completely ‘armed’ with citizenship oaths, emails from the U.S. consulate in Vancouver, etc but thankfully I was asked to show nothing except my Canadian passport.
Again, Hijacked, congratulations and I do hope that you are feeling better about everything now that this step has been taken.
@tiger
Thanks for telling us about your Pearson border crossing. We are headed for Boston on Friday and will go through US customs at the Vancouver airport. We’re not taking any extras — just the passports. If they ask, we’ll tell ’em we’re waiting for the CLN. Vancouver consulate gave us nothing to take away after 2nd interview last August.
I have a formal request in to Vancouver consulate for stats on renunciations/relinquishments this year. Not sure what I’ll get, or how long it will take.
DW
@Arrow,
I hope the consulate here responds to your request. I would love to know why they deal with this whole thing in a different manner than all the other consulates.
Good luck on your border crossing. I am sure it will go well. Hope your arrival in Boston is well past the storm headed that way on Monday.
*@tiger
Thanks for your kind thoughts. Now that a week or so has passed I guess I do feel somewhat relieved. Immediately after the appointment I just felt kind of shell shocked – and if I felt like that after a relatively benign experience, I can’t imagine what you felt like after your encounter in Vancouver. I hope you won’t have to wait too much longer to at least get a date for your second appointment, and that you were able to forget about the whole thing and relax a bit during your holiday in New York.
@ Arrow
I hope you will get the requested information from the consulate in Vancouver. Those would be interesting stats to know. They don’t seem to respond in a timely manner to anything though, so we won’t hold our collective breath. Good luck on your border crossing.
@Arrow,
THANKS, for thinking of and requesting information regarding numbers of renunciations / relinquishments processed at the Vancouver Consulate!! What is the procedure you are using for requesting and being able to obtain such information? Does this have to be a media or a legal request?
I just made this comment on the new post: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/10/28/fatca-faces-delay-after-bilateral-disagreements/
We need to determine the method for getting such information and see if that information can be obtained for all US Consulates in Canada / the world?.
While I was able to relinquish, my sibling was forced to renounce last week in order to apply for a CLN. He/she had been bullied into getting a U.S. passport a few years ago when traveling through the U.S. from Europe en route to Canada. The U.S. consul expressed sympathy but said there was no choice as holding a U.S. passport was evidence of U.S. citizenship. – Same family, became Canadian citizens at the same time over 40 years ago, but different outcomes. Another sibling caved last year, filed OVDI and paid 5 figure penalties.
I crossed the border by car last week with my CLN handy just in case. However, I wasn’t asked for it.
Re the pace of renunciations/relinquisments – I’ve been wondering how the conditions/uncertainties of the streamlined process will affect the total numbers, and the continued pace of renunciations since if accepted as ‘low risk’, only 3 years returns required (’09-11), which leaves those hoping to renounce/relinquish without the requisite 5 years of ‘compliance’ – though now 2012 is almost over, adding a fourth year – to be reported on in June 2013. (In addition to the 6 years of FBARs).
Is is paranoid to think that the US welcomes this opportunity to slow down the pace and decrease the numbers achieving 5 years of compliance in order to renounce by the end of 2012. Unless those doing the streamlined route can successfully provide their 2009-2011 tax returns, and could backfile for 2008 as well. We’ll never know how many will be delayed that way.
@Calgary411
I put in a request through their public affairs office as a media request. They have copies of my BC Business article, and are trying to get me the info I asked (they called me Thursday to ask what my deadline was.) I told them I’m considering doing a follow-up (which I will if they give me what I’m asking for).
Thanks, Arrow.
I hope you, as media, are able to obtain the information you have requested. Would a possible follow-up be “for all Canadian US Consulates” and then “for all World US Consulates”, if you are able to get actual, complete figures for the Vancouver Consulate renunciations and relinquishments?
I hope there will be complete transparency in providing the information you’ve requested — anything less is further evidence that the US Departments of State and Treasury are absolutely blocking the complete story of HOW MANY – actual numbers? for your publishing and our examination.
Thanks again for your work on this — good luck!
You are only asking for ACTUAL NUMBERS, correct? That’s what we need to determine — actual numbers, not some souped-up numbers on the “Name and Shame” list.
For what it’s worth, some speculation on the end-of-September Name and Shame list on the US Federal Register.
The end-of-June list was posted on July 27. It’s October 29 and there’s no sign yet of the end-of-September list (I just checked a few minutes ago, the most recent IRS posts on FedReg are dated today).
CBS News article about Hurricane Sandy reports that all non-essential US offices in Washington are being closed today and that city’s public transportation system is being shut down, pending arrival of the hurricane expected to make landfall nearby sometime tonight. The government offices likely also will be closed on Tuesday, and who knows when they’ll re-open, pending the amount of damage that actually materializes from the storm.
Don’t hold your breath about the N&S list for a week at least, I’d say. (Gee isn’t there an election coming up soon? Wonder if that has anything to do with delays. But the hurricane certainly does provide a legitimate reason for delays. I don’t think the Federal Register, never mind N&S list, is considered an “essential government service” in such cases. I can’t imagine the Government of Canada keeping our equivalent, the Canada Gazette, operating under emergency weather conditions. I’m pretty sure that office was closed during the January 1998 ice storm, as were almost all other government offices in Ottawa during that storm.)
@calgary411
Why didn’t I think of that? Good one! 😉
I just got a reply (well – sort of) to my email to US Ambassador to Canada, David Jacobson.
From: Johnson, Sylvia D
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:55 PM
To: calgary411
Subject: Your Inquiry for Information
Dear Ms. Calgary411,
Thank you for your inquiry to the Ambassador. We will reach you to provide a response to you as soon as possible.
This email is UNCLASSIFIED.
Note: I have sent many emails to the US Ambassador to Canada. This is the VERY FIRST response (of any kind) I’ve gotten from the US Ambassador to Canada — or his office, so that has been progress over the last year.
This is direct report from a renunciation that took place at the Vancouver consulate during October 2012. To protect the identity of the person reporting, I have received this report at least two removes from the renunciant in question. I have no idea who the renunciant is, nor do I want to know. But I have 100% confidence in the reliability of my source for this information.
In conversation a consulate staff person told the renunciant that Vancouver consulate had heard back from Washington on 58 cases all at one time. This event appeared to have been a fairly recent occurrence, almost certainly falling within 2012.
On a different topic, the renunciant was also told that the intent of the Vancouver consulate procedures is to ensure that every single case is solid and proceeds to completion without a hitch. It was further said that Vancouver consulate has encountered not one instance of a rejected termination of US citizenship. Other locations (none named) are said to have produced failures.
The following are my personal observations, for what they’re worth.
Regarding the first paragraph: we now have official confirmation that part of the delays we are experiencing are due to batching of cases, at least in Vancouver. The figure of 58 cases, likely all in 2012, is very interesting. Isaac Brock Society has at this writing received individual anonymous reports of 13 cases from Vancouver, all dating from November 2011 and all but two in 2012. So at least in Vancouver, the true number of cases is more than four times what we’re picking up at Brock. I think it would be foolish speculation to try to extrapolate from this to the rest of Canada, never mind the world (especially bearing in mind we probably get a bigger percentage of reports from Canada since we’re based in Canada). However this puts the current Canada total we’re showing (53 cases reported to us, 31 renunciations and 22 relinquishments) in some context. Our table is picking up the tip of an iceberg, though I have no idea how much of the berg is underwater.
On the second paragraph: personally I think Vancouver is going over the top in their ensuring none of their cases get rejected by Washington (Tiger’s situation in particular leaps to mind). However those folks who have gone to Vancouver should take some comfort in the news that to date Vancouver hasn’t had a single one of “their” cases rejected in Washington. So if they’ve accepted your application, you should have confidence it will be approved in DC. (I don’t see how a renunciation could possibly be rejected in DC once any consulate has accepted it, though I can imagine scenarios in which some relinquishments might get tripped up. We do know of one where the age of the applicant at the time of the claimed expatriation was a problem, for example. In that particular case, if I recall correctly the consulate caught the problem before sending the case to Washington and called the applicant a day or two after the appointment and told the person the case wasn’t going forward. If Calgary, Toronto or Halifax have accepted your forms and haven’t called you back within a couple of days, I think you should be fine.)
For those outside Canada: I wouldn’t get too worried about the vague statement that Vancouver has heard of cases being rejected in Washington. We don’t know how many cases Vancouver’s heard about; I’ve only heard of one so far in Canada, and I doubt staff in Vancouver will have heard anything about cases from countries other than Canada, though that’s speculation on my part.
@Schubert
Thanks for the post. Some interesting info re the Vancouver consulate. I do get some comfort from knowing that no cases in Vancouver have been denied. Interesting though that they report having heard back from Washington on 58 cases and yet on this site, there does not seem to be anyone in Vancouver who has as yet received a CLN.
In my case, it is three weeks today that I forwarded the new documents to them and requested my second appointment. Still waiting! And I notice on the consulate’s webpage, there are no appointments available through January, 2013. At this rate, I might be so old that I require an aide to attend with me.
@Tiger, I noticed of the Vancouver people reporting to Brock that they’ve completed the process, they’re all pretty recent. So far we have 8 people reporting that they have completed both meetings at Vancouver, these second meetings at Van all occurred between June and September this year. I don’t know when this batch of 58 arrived, so it will be interesting to see if any of these are in it. Hope so.
@schubert1975 —
Very interesting report — thanks. I’m still waiting for a call-back from Vancouver consulate on my request for stats (I’m not holding my breath). And I truly hope that the batch of 58 includes my wife’s, and further that it arrives in Thursday’s or Friday’s mail. On Saturday, we’re off to Boston for a family visit and it would sure be nice to have that CLN when we front up to the border guards at YVR.
@All. I appreciate your thanks for the post, but the thanks should go to the anonymous renunciant who passed this on. I’m only the conduit, or “launderer.” Tough dirty job but someone has to do it …
*A friend renounced at the Montréal consulate this morning.
Only one appointment was required.
Have asked that they report their experience to IBS
Thanks, Patricia (and your friend). That’s super. Another Montréal person. I’m really pleased to hear that Montréal has switched to one appointment — it really makes sense as the person who’s renouncing knows what they’re doing and just wants closure more than anything — and it will keep the queue from getting longer and longer at Montréal.
*Hi everybody. I just relinquished U.S. citizenship yesterday Nov.5 in Toronto. around 2:45 pm. It was easy. Took less than one hour. Consulate officers were friendly. CLN eta = 3 to 6 months.Thank you so much for this website. There was a young lad at the booth next to mine who was renouncing at the same time. I wondered if he was a brockster. Bye Bye Miss American Pie!There is a hotel within a very short walking distance of the Consulate. The Metropolitan at 110 Chestnut St. Lots of places to eat nearby. Don’t eat at the hotel. Breakfast for just myself cost $20. I thought breakfast would be the cheapest meal of the day! There are also some big parking lots near the vicinity of the Consulate. Good luck everyone.
*@Banany, Congratulation!! I know you must be EXTREMELY HAPPY!! Wish you all the best!
Congratulations, Banany! Sounds like an all-round good experience! I found the people really friendly there too. Thanks for your report. I’ll add it to the directory this evening.
Another food suggestion for Brockers – if you’re staying in a hotel near the Toronto consulate, you can get really good fresh entrées, veggies, cheese, etc. at the Rabba Fine Foods Market at Simcoe just south of Richmond to bring back to your hotel. But as Banany pointed out, there is lots of good restaurants nearby too, lots of different cuisines to choose from. Quite a lot to see and do in the area too, eg Queen Street West, Chinatown.