929 thoughts on “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 1 of 2”

1. *I have mentioned over at the Sandbox there is a very strong case for ONLY filing DS-4079. The consulate WON’T want you to do that but there is technically no legal obligation for someone who has committed a relinquishing act to fill out DS-4081. You have already relinquished by committing the relinquishing act back many years ago all you are doing is providing notic(via DS-4079).

2. @Arrow, @ Pacifica and @all

   Thank you so much for your kind, encouraging words. I know there is uncertainty in all of this, just as in all of life. However, like you said, Arrow, it is unlikely that anything will change for the better in the U.S. (at least not in my lifetime). As was said on another thread, the FATCA train has left the station. Some form of it will be enacted. People are getting across the border today; some being admonished they should be on a U.S.passport. But how much longer before Homeland Security would stop all American born Canadians

   Pacifica, you are correct about the people at the Vancouver consulate. I have heard of noone being verbally abused or mistreated at the consulate.

   My late husband used to tease me about being indecisive. My sons recognize that ‘bad trait’ in their mother. When I got out of bed this morning (the 19th anniversary of my husband’s death), I knew that I must make a decision. So I did. And at this point I don’t think I will change the appointment.

   This site and so many of the individuals who post here have provided great strength to me and I thank all of you from the bottom of my heart. It helps whenever I feel alone in my worries.

3. *Tiger, I too think you have little to worry about, because your Canadian citizenship oath in 1972 included an explicit renunciation of other citizenships.  Like many others, I became a Canadian citizen a few years later, when the oath no longer involved renunciation of prior nationalities.  Those like me have a bit more to worry about than you do, although the “get out of jail free” posting here on the IBS site offers some comfort to us.

   Anyway, I encourage you to go for the CLN.  It should normalize your dealings with Canadian banks post FATCA, and it should enable you to visit the US without problems if you wish to, subject, of course, to the continuing uncertainties about how the IRS will treat us old-time relinquishers.  (I hope we can get a final answer to that soon.  That would lower anxiety levels for a lot of us.)

   Good luck!

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5. @Hijacked

   Congratulations on making your appointment. Since you became a Canadian in 1967 (pre-1973), you would have had to swear a renunciatory oath in addition to the oath of allegiance to the Queen. I plan to bring a copy of that oath attached to form DS-4079 with me to the consulate.

   I believe Calgary only requires one visit. For that reason, I had thought of booking my appt at the Calgary consulate. My fear was that if there were a problem – ie missing some impt document – I would have to return. At Vancouver, two appointments are required. In the case of Arrow’s wife, the interim was 5 months. This could go on for me for quite some time. Strikes me as very ineffecient on the part of Vancouver’s consulate.

   Bravo for booking the appointment, Hijacked

6. Hi Mr. Flott, I would encourage your participation at our website through contributing to the ongoing discussion. For example, if you have an article of relevance that might be particularly interesting, we would consider posting it as a separate thread. Or if you make a salient comment, we would consider also highlighting it in a separate thread. Thanks.

7. @Arrow, Pacifica and others who have previously filed for a CLN

   As mentioned earlier in the week, I made my first appointment with the Vancouver consulate for September 21st for the purpose of filing for my CLN (relinquishment). Today I received an email from the consulate, confirming the apppointment.

   The email contained instructions about arrival and what to expect regarding security. In addition, there was a section ‘If you are coming in for a NOTARIAL SERVICE’. They list four instructions ie, bring the document to be notarized, etc and then mention fees. The fees listed are: 1st notary certificate – $50, additional notary certificate – $50, Authentications, each certificate – $50.

   I was curious – is this something I can ignore or do I need to have cash for payment to file the DS-4079 and DS-4081?

8. Tiger:

   You can ignore it. The appointments are all made under notarial (should be notorious in my opinion) services because that’s the umbrella everything else falls under. Have all your documents ready to go and tell the first clerk you talk to (once you’re inside) exactly what you are doing — they will take it from there.

   You don’t need any cash.

   And when you get called for your second interview, they’ll tell you to bring along $450. You shouldn’t need that either. As it was explained to us, that $450 is so you can renounce on the spot if for some reason they reject your relinquishment application. That’s not likely to happen, so don’t worry.

   And good luck.

   DW

9. @Arrow(DW)

   Thanks so much for the quick reply. I am so stressed out about this whole process that my heart is racing. The quick reply has slowed it down. Of course, I continue to 2nd guess my decision but one thing is for sure – no decision is not the right answer for me!

10. Hi Tiger,  Everything should go fine.  It sounds like you have your file all ready and the facts of your relinquishment are really clear. Also, everyone’s been reporting that their meetings go very smoothly at Vancouver. I got the impression in Toronto that they understand the situation, that after 40-or-whatever years, we’re just trying to straighten out our lives, and from what I’ve read I think that’s the case at Vancouver too.  I actually found my meeting to be a very pleasant experience.

11. @pacifica777

    Thanks for your encouraging words. My kids are so tired of mom ‘freaking out’ about all of this that I have stopped talking to them about it. Besides they are at the busiest times of their lives, raising kids, earning money etc. It is nice to have this site to express my concerns and get the much needed encouragement.

12. I was wondering if someone could advise me on booking an appt to renunciate at the Calgary consulate.  I tried calling 1-900-451-2778 but it just hangs up on me.  I tried their local number of (403) 266-8962 but I just get automated message telling me to go to their website to book an appt.  It also gave me an email address but said they would not respond to general inquiries.  Not sure how to book it on the website.

    Thanks.

13. @ ShaggyZ,

    Email the Calgary Consulate at Calgary-ACS@state.gov.

    I have confirmation for an appointment on November 14, 2012. There was an earlier report of appointments being given in December of this year.

    We would appreciate if you can give us information to add to our database in which we are tracking Renunciations and Relinquishments — date of first contact / first appointment / Renounce or Relinquish / finally, date of Certificate of Loss of Nationality? (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/)

    Note: All recent renunciations at the Calgary Consulate have only required one appointment with, of course, payment up front of $450 fee (no fee if you are relinquishing instead).

14. @All

    Bit of a double post, since I just mentioned this on the relinquishment thread – I just got my CLN today!  It took about 10 weeks to arrive after a four month wait to get the appointment, which seems to be standard for people based in Europe nowadays.  

    Now I just have to plan how I will celebrate 🙂

15. @calgary411

    Thanks for the quick reply. I will try to use that email addy to book my appt.  Once I have updates I will add them that other thread.

16. @Shaggy Z,

    …and I, most importantly, forgot to say GOOD LUCK. The Calgary Consulate experience has good reports here.

17. Big congratulations, Don Pomodoro. I’ll update the Renounce and Relinquish database (likely tomorrow). What is the date of your CLN?

    Thanks for the info — happy for you!!!!

18. @Don Pomodoro

    Congratulations. Wow, 10 weeks. Here in Canada, they seem to take 1 year to arrive and in Vancouver, it takes two appointments at the consulate.

19. @Tiger

    I do admit to feeling a bit guilty that I got mine so much faster than everyone based in Canada here.  It certainly isn’t fair, but I would guess that they have different departments for each region. My CLN has some sort of departmental stamp next to the date that says EUR, so I guess that they actually must divide them up regionally. I also had to complete two visits and wait four months before I even got an appointment though, so it still isn’t made easy here.

20. Congratulations Don Pomodoro!   Glad to hear your good news!

21. Yes huge congratulations Don!!  Great to read that some of our long-standing friends and fellow combatants on this and other websites finally are getting some closure!  I can’t remember what country you live in, but if I were you I’d find the nicest, prettiest, most interesting and most-profoundly-unlike-America place in the country or nearby to go and spend a couple of days hiking, wining, dining, gallerying, or whatever else your favourite pasttime or vice might be.  Go for it; this is a once-in-a-lifetime event!

22. Congratulations, Don Pomodoro! 🙂

23. @ Calgary 411

    I now finally have a confirmed appointment in Calgary (relinquishment) for Oct. 17. I was previously told by my lawyer that they were booking into December, so go figure. You might want to correct the data base with the new date. I think I’m #13.

    @ all

    I was sent a Renunciation Questionnaire – no form number on it. There are 13 questions – name, date of birth, SSN, address, phone, last US address, dates of US residence, how did you acquire US citizenship (birth, or otherwise), other nationality, do you want to provide a written statement of reasons for renouncing, will you swear or affirm the oath of renunciation. They want this form prior to the appointment.

    Has anyone else seen this? I’m thinking that I will send it in, but cross out all references to renunciation and substitute relinquishment. Would this cause gnashing of teeth at the consulate ?

    To bring to the appointment they want:

    Evidence of your United States Citizenship. This must be presented at the time of your interview.

    – Any U.S. passports (valid or expired),

    – If applicable, your Consular Report of Birth Abroad, Certificate of Citizenship/Naturalization.

    – You should also provide evidence of your Canadian citizenship to show that you will not become stateless by renouncing your citizenship.

    – Due to a recent policy change made by the Department of State, the $450 fee for Renunciation of citizenship is now required at the time of your interview. We can accept US/CDN cash, credit card or U.S. dollar money order, payable to the U.S. Consulate, Calgary. We do not accept checks or debit cards.

    – As an option, you may also wish to provide a written statement regarding your reason for renouncing your citizenship.

    No mention of Form 4079 which I have filled out and will take along. I assume the $450 is not applicable.

    Is all this consistent with others’ experience?

24. @hijacked2012,

    I did a search on “relinquishment” on the Consulate Directory (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/24/consulate-visit-report-directory/)and found that 4079 was referred to in several relinquishment experiences at Consulates, so a good idea to have prepared and in hand. One relinquisher (Toronto) had this to say:

    “…Having all the necessary documents and two completed copies of both 4079 and 4081 probably contributed to the smoothness of the experience; having “all your ducks in a row” before going in, seems to be a very good idea.”

    You might want to puruse the Consulate Directory for a review of other experiences before you — it seems to differ from Consulate to Consulate. There is one relinquishment reported for Calgary.

    Glad you were able to get your appointment date moved up. From other experiences in Calgary, sounds like it should go smoothly for you. Be as prepared as you can be. The best of luck to you. And, let us know how it goes for you.

    (I’ll update your info on the Renounce & Relinquish database.)

25. I am delighted to report that Canada Post delivered to our Ottawa home in this afternoon’s regular mail my wife’s CLN.

    My wife had her relinquishment appointment at the Toronto Consulate 4.5 months ago. The dates on and within the envelope reveal that the Consul in Toronto completed and approved the CLN (which is back-dated to my wife’s 1977 Canadian citizenship date) exactly one week after the interview. Washington gave final approval to the CLN almost exactly 3 months later. It took 5 weeks and 2 days from the Washington approval to the Toronto postmark on the envelope (the CLN was mailed from the Toronto consulate). I guess that means the State Department uses Tortoise Express for internal delivery, or maybe DHS had to run it through an electron microscope at the border to check for anything nasty in case those nasty State Department people might have planted something in the envelope; who knows? Canada Post took three business days to deliver it, which is a huge model of efficiency in comparison (though three days between Toronto and Ottawa is pretty sad on its own …).

    For the record: the cover letter asks my wife to sign and return it as confirmation of receipt; I guess they’re too cheap to use registered mail any more. There has been no $450 charge. Included in the package was my wife’s decades-old expired US passport that she had submitted has been returned with a big CANCELLED stamp; she plans to frame it along with her CLN. Also in the envelope are photocopies of the forms 4079 and 4081 that she completed and signed. Nowhere in the envelope can I find any mention of the T word or the digits 8, 5, or 4.

    I will be monitoring the Name and Shame List with great interest for the next couple of quarters. Will let y’all know if I see anything of interest there.

    Other good news is this means the backlog in Toronto is starting to clear. I’m puzzled at the lack of information about any of the renunciations that went forward in Toronto back in November or December. Maybe people aren’t reporting on this website. I can’t imagine any sane reason why a renunciation CLN would take longer than a relinquishment based on a 35-year-ago expatriating act; a renunciation ought to be a slam dunk unless the applicant was drunk, incoherent, or seemed otherwise incapacitated or under duress. Otherwise I don’t know what to say, except sorry for those folks but happy for my wife.

    We’re going out to a very nice restaurant in our neighbourhood to celebrate.

    And now we both can proudly carry and, on demand, display our CLNs. God help any banker who even thinks of trying to rat either of us out to the IRS under FATCA … “Go ahead; make my lawyer’s day,” to paraphrase Clint Eastwood.

    I will continue to monitor IBS and participate when I think I have something different and constructive to contribute, but I hope you’ll understand if I scale back my involvement from this point onward. I wish everyone all the best in their quest to gain Freedom from the US, and I’ll try to help in my own way at a reasonable pace when it seems appropriate. Time to regain our lives and sanity after 12 months of Hell.

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