When both the United States and Canada leave their dual citizens to wallow in uncertainties, those hapless fish/fowl are left to grasp at protruding roots that encircle the morass of quicksand.
Most often, those handholds are not data. If good data could be had, the atrocities of the situation would be too evident.
In absence of data, anecdote becomes all that is left to latch onto. Here are three, newly acquired this week.
One. A person from Canada in a position to test the system deliberately travels to the United States with an expired US passport. Objections. So sorry, so busy, didn’t notice, didn’t get around to it. Allowed in. Next time, not so good. The computer tells us that you were expired last time, and we know we told you that. After that second trip, testing accomplished, the passport is renewed. (At first hand.)
Two. Many travels from Canada across the border to see an aged mother. No problems. Mother now departed. Recent flight to Los Angeles to transit to cruise to South America. With U.S. place of birth in Canadian passport, the traveller is “grilled.” Companion traveller in same circumstance not grilled, because place of birth was not US or Canada. (At solid second hand.)
Three. Worst for last. Person in Canada owing U.S. tax of something less than $70,000 receives warning letter from Homeland Security. Message: Attempt to enter the United States and we will take you into custody. (At solid second hand.)
@usxcanada 70k assessed or suspected?
@usxcanada
I’ll point out that Canadian citizens are specifically encouraged to travel on their Canadian passports by the Canadian government wherever possible.
I am curious on any details of your “third” annecdote. Whoever person three should definately inform DFAIT of any communication of that nature.
JDT – My understanding was that the amount was definite tax owing, at least from the IRS point of view. Not sure what “suspected” would mean in this context.
Tim – Circumstances are such that I cannot reach the person in the third anecdote, and would be reluctant to attempt to go further with the immediate source. The immediate source was a highly credible professional.
@usxcanada suspected=nonfilers stopped at the border due to IRS-Homeland cross-referenced databases.
OK. I understood the person to be within Canada, nowhere near the border – and not intending to go there after receiving that letter. There was this additional editorial comment on the situation: IRS pursuit of this person through courts within Canada seemed unlikely due to the possibility of generating unfavorable publicity, especially by perhaps losing the case!
@usxcanada
I don’t think the IRS can pursue anyone in the Canadian courts. In US, IRS has to pass on to DOJ to prosecute. So should be safe there!
I will be traveling through the US on my Canadian passport in less than two weeks. I was born in the US but have never had a US passport…and have never had any trouble. I’m curious to see what happens.
These are the kinds of stories that we need to continue sharing with one another. One of ranks told a story (source also a tax professional), of a man required to produce US tax filings at Pearson Airport. By the time the paperwork was produced, he’d missed his flight.
The strong message to US citizens resident in Canadian: We are going to use access to the United States as leverage to make sure you pay your taxes and do your filing.
@Bruce Newman, US State Department regulations on dual citizens on-line state that “generally” dual US citzens must use US passports to enter the US, or “most” US citizens must use US passports to enter the US. But it does not state the exceptions under which such a dual citizen may use a foreign passport. If anybody can find what these exceptions are and post them it would be helpful.
Some countries absolutely wil not permit citizens using passports of the “other” country to be used when entering and will deny you entry and deport you on the next flight back if you try. I witnessed this with a fellow worker when we traveled from Lima Peru to Buenos Aries Argentina. He was a British subject born in Argentina who had never been back since he left after birth as a baby in arms. It was noted in his passport that he had been born inArgentina so when he could not produce an Argentine passport he was retained by Immigration overnight and departed back to Peru on the first outbound flight the next morning. He then went to the Argentine counsulate with his Argentine birth certificate, was issued an Argentine passport and returned to Buenos Aires.
For air travel the usual practice for dual citizens is carry both passports; using the passport of the country you are leaving when you depart and the passport of the other country when you arrive. But when driving or walking across the US and Canadian borders there is no checking of passports by the country you are leaving. They are only checked by the country you are entering.
@Bruce Not a good idea with the crackdown to depend on transit through the US to a second destination like Mexico. It is better to fly direct if you are planning to use a Canadian passport.
If you are just driving to the states, no big deal. But I’d hate to lose the money on a flight.
The problem is that they can indeed use the passport rule at any time. If they applied it assiduously, it would really become a story all over the Canadian news.
@usx Perhaps you could inform your professional source about the need to verify the story, and he can reach out to the person.
@Tim It is important that Canadian officials learn about the IRS shake downs of Canadian residents and dual citizens. I agree.
back in the 50’s we had to check with US Customs before entering Canada. I travel by bus to the US
(it is actually faster for my destination.) The US has started random Passport checks internally and prior to entry to Canada. Once the border patrol stopped the bus between interstate exits and everyone had to produce ID. 3 yrs ago they set up a passport control inspection 3km south of the Canadian border to check ID and random luggage checks.
I travelled to the U.S. in Dec. through Pearson airport with my daughter and husband. My daughters passport; no problem. My husbands passport; no problem. When they got to me, the customs officer studied my passport carefully, set it down and started typing for what felt like forever. He never said anything to me and let me pass but it makes me wonder what he was writing and what will happen next time. BTW, I was travelling with a Canadian passport with a U.S. place of birth. Will let you know how my next trip planned for May goes.
My husband has been travelling to the US on business for decades on his Canadian passport, he’s never had a US one. He originally came to Canada as a small child by car using only his US birth certificate as identification.
He went to the US using his Canadian passport a few months ago, no issues.
@Everyone
You do have certain rights at preclearance locations ala Pearson Airport etc. You are still on Canadian soil and can choose to withdraw your request to enter the US at any point. My understanding although I’ll have to look this is you can be detained but only if the pre-clearance officer suspects you have broken Canadian law and only until a Canadian law enforcement officer arrives to assess the situation(at Pearson or for that matter at any other airport this would take a few minutes maximum).
I know many people have many strong feelings about Air Canada that usually aren’t positive but you can fly non stop to most of South America from Pearson such as Bogota, Caracas, Lima, Sao Paulo-Guarulhos, Buenos Aires etc avoiding the US completely so I would not feel trapped by the situation. I would say from a convience point alone flying nonstop from Pearson even on Air Canada is preferable to changing planes at the “madhouse” of Miami International Airport(MIA is quite literally in Roger’s current territory so he would know better than I what the current situation is down there)
I was told in 2004 at the border I should be entering only on a US passport. I asked why because I had been a Canadian since 1973. The border guard told me because I was born in the US, I was still American. I insisted I wasn’t because I had renounced when I became Canadian (I truly didn’t know then that the US had reclaimed without my knowledge of consent). She didn’t agree with me, but let me enter but said I should have a US passport by the next time I traveled to US.
I never got a US passport and had no further issues until my most recent trip. A border guard again noted my US place of birth and told me I should get a US passport. I didn’t have the energy, time or courage for the debate. I simply said “Oh,” nodded and went on my way. His word was “should,” not “must.” I don’t know if he entered any info about our discussion into data base, so I don’t know if the next time I travel to see my elderly mother if I will have problems.
If they arrest me and toss me in jail, shall I make my one call to Isaac Brock Warriors to storm the prison and rescue me?
Because my husband used to travel to the US alot he had to go through a process once which would in the future allow him to be fast tracked when crossing the border. This procedure was put in place after 911.
He was interviewed by US officials to get his clearance and was never asked anything about his US birthplace. He was never told he needed a US passport. If somebody was going to harrass you it would be these folks and they didn’t.
For some Canadians with American birth, an Enhanced Driver’s License may be a better option. As I understand it, this does not include place of birth. Of course, they can still ask place of birth. I don’t know how often that happens. Doe anyone have any experience with that?
I’m planning to get one, but I recently lost my Canadian citizenship card (rotten timing!) and
CIC says it will be about 10 months for a replacement (So, it’s not only Americans who are slow).
Others who have their citizenship card may want to consider the EDL if your province has them and if you’re driving into the US. Of course, they can still ask your place of birth, but if they don’t, there shouldn’t be an issue.
In Ontario, you have to go for an interview to get an enhanced driver’s license at designated locations. It will mean a two hour drive for me (four hours round trip!), but it’s worth it. You must have the interview each time you renew the EDL. You also must pick up the EDL (again four hours round trip for me). If you’re closer to the border or in Toronto, locations will be closer to you.
You will need an appointment for the interview. I don’t know how long that takes. You will also need your citizenship or Canadian birth certificate (for accidental Americans born in Canada). There is a $40 fee over the cost of a regular driver’s license.
EDL is only good for land and water crossings from Canada to US. It can be used if you are driving into US from Canada. It can’t be used if you are flying.
Here’s a link to EDL info for Ontario. Canadians in other provinces could check out your province’s website to see if it is available and how to get one.
http://www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_residents/ONT05_017865#WhatisanEDL
@ Blaze
I assume you mean that you can use an EDL to drive from Canada to U.S. I, too, am thinking of getting one in British Columbia. One thing I want to find out prior to getting the EDL is how much information is put into the “chip” on the card. I know you sign a waiver that Canada can transmit the info from the chip to Homeland Security. If your place of birth is in the chip, then they would have that information when you use the EDL.
It cannot be used if you are driving into US from Canada.
Should this be “can“, Blaze?
Wikipedia “Enhanced driver’s licences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Canada#Enhanced_driver.27s_licences
Along with numerous U.S. states, several provinces have implemented their own Enhanced Driver’s Licence (EDL) programmes for Canadian citizens that includes proof of citizenship to comply with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative for entering the United States. Provinces issuing EDLs include Manitoba[*], Quebec[**], British Columbia [***] and Ontario.[****]
*Manitobans wait for one-piece driver’s license continues
**New Quebec licence good for U.S. travel
***B.C’s enhanced driver’s licence for U.S. border use goes public
****Enhanced Driver’s Licence Applicant’s Guide”
I immigrated to Canada in 2004. I became a proud Canadian citizen almost a year ago, and duly applied for my Canadian passport immediately after the ceremony. But here is something that hasn’t changed in my trips to the U.S. to see my family: my son and I (even when I have a signed letter from my husband stating he is aware of our travel plans and final destination) get hassled EACH and EVERY time we cross into the U.S. through the Vancouver airport and it is getting worse. (Part of this is likely to do with the fact that we adopted our U.S. born son [he was five days old at the time], and he has a bit more melanin than I do!) On our latest trip in January, the official demanded to see my son’s birth certificate. I responded that I never travel with his birth certificate, but he was welcome to see his Canadian passport. We got hassled crossing the border even before I took Canadian citizenship–there is always this air of “how dare you live in Canada as a U.S. citizen,” complete with look of disdain from the border officials. We get the “where is home?” question numerous times as well. And to top things off, I really don’t understand taxes in either country (hence my hiring a CA each year at great expense). I haven’t been earning anything as a stay-at-home mum (with a learning-disabled child). And I don’t dare come “out of the shadows” because there is no way I could ever pay IRS penalties and back taxes. With aging parents, I have no idea if the next time I cross into the U.S. what will happen when I take my son to see them. We don’t have oodles of cash squirreled away in some bank account in the Cayman Islands. We are a perfectly ordinary, middle-class family with the usual food-clothes-shelter concerns. We also pay for a learning disabilities support school for our son, and this amounts to one-fourth of my husband’s income. I do have to say that it is appalling that I have to keep the IRS apprised of our lives in Canada. When we adopted our son, his birth certificate was legally changed to list us as his parents. Along this line, it is too bad that when one becomes a citizen of another country that the country of birth cannot be changed to the new country! It would certainly solve a few problems.
OOPS: Yes, I meant you CAN use it to drive into US — FIXED. Many apologies. I I didn’t mean to confuse even further.
@Tiger: I don’t know how much info is on the “chip,” I called about the Ontario EDL and was told I did not need to provide my US birth certificate. In fact, he told me they only accept a Canadian birth certificate. Others must provide citizenship. As far as I know, Ministry of Transportation does not have my place of birth.
Isn’t it creepy that we suddenly have to sneak around about things that should be so simple?!? I feel like I’m being treated like a criminal by my country of birth. I’m too old for this nonsense! Yikes–that is the first time I have ever used the word old to describe myself. I still think of myself as young because I’m an active productive 61 year old woman. But, this whole process has exhausted and aged me. I feel as if I am being penalized for being a responsible, contributing, passionate,energetic, spirited, hard working and law-abiding person for six decades!
I had an idea this morning. Do you think we might be able to organize Canadians (and others around the world) of American origin to demonstrate at American Consulates and Embassies on Fourth of July to sign our own Issac Brock Declaration of Independence. We already have John Hancock and Thomas Jefferson here (or maybe its Jefferson Thomas.) This time, though, there will be women signing the Declaration, as well as people of all races, colours and creeds.
July 4 is, of course, just a few days after Canada Day on July 1. I understand Canadian government is planning 200th anniversary of War of 1812 celebrations as part of Canada Day festivities. We could use this as a perfect lead-in. I think the media would love it–maybe even the American media!
Blaze, I, too, would like to figure out how to organize expats to protest the U.S. practice of double taxation without representation. The U.N.? Lawsuits? I do like the idea of protests and an expat declaration of independence! In the meantime, please write to the representatives of your current country of life and demand help and attention to our plight.
Windsor Ontario might be a good location. Right across from Carl’s as in Levin’s hometown.