Yesterday was a busy day on this blog. There were many comments explaining why U.S. citizenship is a “problem to be solved“. I would be interested in having you post comments explaining specifically why you wish to retain U.S. citizenship. Practical, emotional, Patriotism?
According to the US, here are the benefits:
1- Enter the US and live and work anytime you like;
2- Protection from the US Government, unless you commit a crime in a country, and then you are on your own.
This is all I can find. If someone knows of more hidden benefits, please DO post them here.
As I tell people, if you plan to live and work there, US Citizenship is good to have. If you live and work abroad (and especially if you have entrepreneurial leanings), it’s probably best to renounce and save yourself a whole host of problems.
The only benefit for me that I could see is an emotional one. The US is where I was born and where the vast majority of my family reside. But when dealing with government bureaucracy, one must think with their head and not with their heart. Living in Canada, I and other expats have the same if not better rights and privileges compared to what we would enjoy living in the US. Consider that we have universal healthcare here, and already the scales tip over to Canada’s favor.
I left the US already disillusioned with the overall direction the country was taking in terms of social and economic inequality, as well as imperialistic foreign policy. From my perspective, these problems have only worsened. Call it pessimism if you must, but seeing how deeply the US government is mired in corruption, I don’t foresee things improving any time soon. This whole FATCA and FBAR scandal is just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I have already renounced my US citizenship in my heart. The only thing left for me is to formalize it on paper and swear an oath to the same effect. Better to do it sooner rather than later. I am still young and want to start a family and own a home, as well as have a decent retirement plan. I wouldn’t be able to do any of those things with the albatross of the IRS constantly flying around.
I wouldn’t want to risk the ire of the IRS and US govt, at least til I’m completely through my tax and FBAR statutes of limitations, which could be as late as 1 July 2019 due to still having a final complicated fbar to complete next year for 2012 tax year. I also wouldn’t want to risk any difficulties being allowed entry which could happen if they decided to be spiteful and start enforcing the Reed amendment, etc.
I have no children and with my spouse fifteen years older, I will probably wind up alone in my final years; I thus may decide I’d prefer to spend my old age near my btothers’ children back stateside.
I also don’t know if I could be penalised on my parents’ inheritance if I renounced. The rules get very confusing.
On a more positive note, I hope that Fatca will wind up bring repealed or at least simplified; I also hope the US will eventually decide to join the rest of the world with residence_based taxation. If so, zI would be sorry that I’d chosen to renounce.
I really only see it as the last straw. Though I resent the onerous compliance obligationd, I do nonetheless still consider it a privelege to hold the blue passport so acknowledge that it may come with some extra costs. It would also dishonour my family if I renounced. As most of my assets came from them, I feel in a way that to renounce would be spurnning everything they’ve done for me.
You say you are “still young”. Interestingly, years ago I would have thought that for a young person having U.S. citizenship might increase your opportunities. But, I now see that, for many young people, divesting themselves of U.S. citizenship might be the best investment they could make in their future.
Certainly, you would want to cease to be a U.S. citizen before acquiring any wealth. See why:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/exit-tax-triggered-by-renouncing-u-s-citizenship/
Thanks for your comment.
Mona Lisa – very interesting comment.
Waiting out the FBAR statute of limitations could turn out to be a very smart decision. Also, for people with possible inheritances, as always, it is important to get good legal advice.
Theses considerations seem to me to be very “fear based” (and I don’t blame you).
When people fear the government:
http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/when-people-fear-the-government/
You also raise another interesting point – might the U.S. get rid of citizenship-based taxation? Well, that would help. What would you imagine would make them do that? Also, there would still be all the reporting requirements.
I am not sure that I want to waste my life on this stuff.
https://twitter.com/#!/FBAR_Compliant/status/154369526903996417
I’m on the other end of the spectrum, in retirement. For me, the USA is not the country I grew up in, although I have many good memories of those times. I left the US in 1969, disillusioned then and moreso now.
I’ve tried but, sorry, I cannot find one reason for me to retain US citizenship, which I thought I had relinquished in 1975. I want to end this terrible chapter of my life and get back to being a contribuing member of Canadian society and to live each day with some joy. All that has gone by the wayside since I learned of all this, did back US tax returns and FBARs, got the dreaded US Passport in 2009 so I could legally cross the border with that, and now will be required to complete one more yearly form with duplication, added cost, added administration and further loss of financial privacy to the USA — 8938.
The day I get my Certificate of Loss of Nationality will be one of the happiest of my life.
I am having a very difficult time completing the renounciation. I’ve had my first meeting, cancelled the 2nd one and now rescheduled it for mid-January. I guess it is entirely emotional, which is odd to me as I have never seen myself as strongly patriotic or what have you. Both of my parents and one of my brothers are gone, leaving my sister and youngest brother left in the US. I am afraid that I might end up alone, should my husband pass away (we are both 56) and our son could be living/working in the US. But at the same time, it is far more than simple annoyance with the reporting requirements that keeps pushing at me to finish with it. We all know the overwhelming fear and anxiety that has ruled our lives since we became aware of FBARs, etc. So it seems to me that fear of the unknown future is the only real reason to consider keeping my USC while freedom from this whole mess is the reason to renounce. Perhaps oversimplified but that’s what I see and it seems to make sense in life, to make decisions based upon the merits or positive aspects of a situation rather than operate from a fearful state of being.
I am optimistic that they’ll be happy enough with good faith compliance, especially as we’re not their main target- we’re just annoyingly swept up in the net of all these onerous reporting laws. I am already becoming more familiar with various forms and record keeping will become easier going forward because I am simplifying and consolidating my holdings, plus have moved my investments into a compliant btokersge account. My next couple of years will involve high accounting fees but things should be a lot more straightforward within a couple years.
Of course it’s been awful but I want to be more optimistic that it’s going to turn out easier than we thought…it’s certainly forced me to be more organised, which has to be a good thing.
“Protection from the U.S. government”? Don’t you mean “protection of the U.S. government”? I think at the present time that all U.S. citizens living outside the United States, need protection FROM the U.S. government.
Calgary411 your description of the day you renounce U.S. citizenship:
“The day I get my Certificate of Loss of Nationality will be one of the happiest of my life.”
sounds a bit like what people say about the day they sell their boat.
“The two happiest days are the day you get the boat and the day you sell the boat.”
I suspect that is what a lot of green card holders are feeling.
I have given this a lot of thought. It is a question that has been asked a number of times on this blog and on the expat forums. I have tried to put into words the feeling that this question triggers in me when I think about it. I will put my reply into a post.
I agree on comments about WE need protection FROM the US Government. Amazing how it has come to that now.
Zucc.. your 2nd paragraph is exactly why I left. Everyone I know there, I ask them, “Has it gotten better or worse since I left?” The answer is always.. “I think worse..”
Over-regulation, compliance, telling me where I can have a bank account is why I never want to go back. Home is where you make it. Heck, I’m even too scared to go there now, thinking that IF I utter one word, the TSA agents will lock me up in some little room or just make my life difficult just because they can.
I think a lot of people give too much attention to the threatening nature of renouncements rather than to the facts. Of course they are going to threaten and try to scare you. If you leave, they lose control over you, and all the benefits from having that control throughout your lifetime.
I just want to renounce, get rich, and THEN send a copy of my bank statements to the IRS. Oh yeah, I’ll include a drawing with the two finger British salute with it!
My favorite TSA video:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a8jGVXOMsw&feature=player_embedded]
@Petros – That TSA video.. my God.. they touch people all over. So it HAS gotten much worse since I left!
@Nobledreamer. If I were you, I would just sit tight to see what happens with the law. I will check again, but I KNOW Rick Perry said he is for residency-based taxation. I will see if there is anything from Romney because he seems to the “favourite”, Moreover, I really don’t think that this indiscriminate money grab from innocent people can go on forever! I know I’m on here everyday saying that “I can’t wait to renounce.” That’s the absolute truth, but I’m also quite a bit younger (more than 20 years) and the blue passport is creating too many hassles in my life.
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