Your Experiences: Banking; Dealing with Consulates; Entering the US
Share your experiences and read about others’:
Banking
Banking Issues
What Are Banks Asking about your “US Personhood?”
The Ripple Effect is Here. Americans Unable to Open Bank Accounts. In CANADA!
Is TD Bank Overzealously Ferreting Out US Persons?
Dealing with Consulates for Expatriation
Consulate Report Directory: Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings
Entering the United States
Entering the United States: Current thread 2019
Entering the United States: Previous thread 2013-2019
@Nononymous – this is exactly what I’ve been seeing in Australia, at least since CRS came into full effect on 1 July last year.
Similar to the CRA form issued last year.
This is the “tactical” advantage of having CRS. Instead of “US citizenship” they ask for “foreign country tax residency” – a term so vague it’s likely to snag far fewer unsuspecting accidentals.
Can anybody find a direct non-stop flight from Canada to Hispaniola? I would have thought there should be one. Hmmm… I guess the airlines figure nobody would mind stopping on USA soil and going through Hassles and Interrogation, err… Customs and Immigration.
Tom,
Flights from Canada to Hispaniola
“I guess the airlines figure nobody would mind stopping on USA soil and going through Hassles and Interrogation”
At least if you have to go through the US, you’ll go through its hassles and interrogation in pre-clearance on Canadian soil. At least you know the worst that can happen to you, where agents will be armed:
http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-police-involved-shooting-bodycam-philip-brailsford-not-guilty-daniel-shaver/
My husband just got back from our local bank. He was merely depositing a money order into a savings account that he’s had for years and he was asked if he is an American citizen and does he pay American taxes. He had to sign a form which verified his answers to be NO. There was also a question for snowbirds as to how many days they spend in the USA. So even in Canada we have mission creep or maybe it’s more like economic missile strikes, all thanks to the FATCA spectre. I wonder what happens to an indignant Canadian who refuses to answer such impertinent questions?
I was adding a new savings account with RBC, where we are existing customers for regular banking stuff. I saw a CRS/FATCA question during the online signup process. It’s pretty banal:
Are you resident of Canada for tax purposes? Yes/No (pick province from list if yes)
Are you resident of any foreign country for tax purposes? Yes/No (pick country from list if yes)
I don’t remember verbatim, forgot to screencap, and can’t reproduce it since I’ve already answered, so the text may not be completely accurate, but it’s close enough. Point is, if you knew yourself to be a US citizen but didn’t know about CBT, you would answer no to the second question and “accidentally” avoid FATCA reporting!
The way the question is worded almost makes me think they are trying to satisfy their obligations under the IGA while doing as little as possible to report their customers. That’s probably too optimistic. Never ascribe to good intentions what can be ascribed to incompetence (a variation on Occam’s razor).
Follow-up: My wife was asked to confirm the opening of this account as a joint account. (All online, nothing in person or over the phone.) She was also asked the same FATCA question. Unlike me, she answered truthfully.
I needed to open a TD account today, for various reasons. Once again I’m committing perjury to gather intelligence. I used my drivers license as ID, not a passport. There was a verbal FATCA/CRS question, oddly formulated as “do you file taxes in Canada, or are you a US citizen?” I untruthfully answered no.
When I signed various forms at the end, one was called “Tax Residency Self-Certification” with three questions:
And here’s the fine print above the signatures:
Pretty vague threats, so I don’t feel too concerned about having to lie. Otherwise, interesting that they ask both for countries of tax residence and for US citizenship – a bit more thorough than RBC or others.
@nononymous
Good for you. I wish more would do the same. The TD has a big stake in the US and that may explain its wimpish behavior.
US laws and courts require perjury but I haven’t seen that in Canada. It might be impossible (yet again) to obey both Canadian and US law at the same time.
It sounds more like CRS than FATCA. With no US indicia, and a “no” answer to the USC question, the bank is compliant as far as IGA obligations go. The warnings seem more likely to be intended to cover the bank’s back with regard to CRS obligations.
On the travel front, this is a useful Canadian article re those duals or Canadian citizens with i.d. / passport showing a US birthplace who may face delays in renewing their Canadian passport due to changes in Canadian law re the type of proof of Canadian citizenship required (ex. currently a letter size form vs. wallet card prior to 2012).
See;
“…Ellen’s Advice
If you’re a Canadian citizen born outside Canada and your passport has expired, you probably need a citizenship certificate to renew it. Apply now. Don’t risk the loss of your travel plans.
If your passport is up to date, try to renew it before the expiry date or in the year it expires. You will expedite your passport application and avoid having to provide the extra documentation.”
from
‘Don’t underestimate how long it can take to apply for or renew a Canadian passport’
By Ellen Roseman, Personal Finance Columnist
Mon., June 25, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/advice/2018/06/25/dont-underestimate-how-long-it-can-take-to-apply-for-or-renew-a-canadian-passport.html
@Badger
I remember being warned at some point a few years ago that my old tiny plastic card (registration of birth abroad or something) might no longer be adequate proof of Canadian citizenship. I travel enough that I’d never let my passport lapse and renewal hasn’t been a problem, but this is a good reminder that I should get the proper citizenship documentation just in case.
@Nononymous, it was a good reminder for me as well. I don’t travel outside Canada except to the US, and I don’t travel to the US unless I absolutely have to – ex. for family reasons, but because I use it so rarely I tend to lose track of the expiry date.
“I remember being warned at some point a few years ago that my old tiny plastic card (registration of birth abroad or something) might no longer be adequate proof of Canadian citizenship.”
I just phoned the Canadian Embassy in Tokyo (because they rejected my e-mail 3 times).
Wallet-sized plastic cards are still valid. A few years ago they switched back to large letter-sized certificates for new certificates, but if you have a wallet-sized card it is not necessary to switch to a letter-sized certificate.
Also if you wish to switch (despite it not being necessary), you have to surrender the old card and it takes a year to get the new certificate.
From another recent IBS thread, experience with RBC;
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/11/22/seven-reasons-canada-must-say-no-to-fatca/comment-page-2/#comment-8330415
10 days ago I flew from Japan to the US, on a US-based airline. My Canadian passport shows a US birthplace. No one questioned it.
My ticket continued on to Canada, which could be observed by airline staff, but I don’t know if they observed or cared. The airline’s machine required me to select a residence. It defaulted to Canada and I left it that way. Just now I figured out that I should have selected Japan, because my residence in Japan didn’t end until I went through Japanese immigration (exit control) an hour later. Anyway it wasn’t a problem.
US immigration (in the US since the US doesn’t have pre-clearance in Japan) took my passport and said “Welcome home.” I said “Um.” He said “My mistake, they look the same.” I don’t know if he noticed my US place of birth. I think his machine showed my renunciation but I don’t know if he looked at it. I don’t know why he didn’t ask for fingerprints; I think his colleague did a year ago.
Since my renunciation in Ottawa on August 30, 2018, I have entered the US approximately 25 times. Most of these entries were visits to family or to do some cross-border shopping, and I have experienced no problems. I was only offhandedly asked once about my former US citizenship. I was visiting my son, and the CBP agent asked me what my son’s status was in the US, which is citizen. She asked how he got that status, and got confused for a second when I explained that I was a former citizen. No further questions after that.
My employer requires me to travel for my job to our facilities in the US, so they paid for me to get an E-1 Treaty Trader visa, which was issued about a month ago. Again, no problems during the visa interview. They do ask if you renounced for tax purposes, which was not the case for me. I answered that my entire life is here in Canada, along with my wife and my home and job. They were fine with that answer, and issued my visa straight away. And at the border to get my I-94, no problems there either.
I travelled to North Korea for a holiday in 2016, and under new US rules this means I can no longer enter under an ESTA. I applied for a visa on line, and my interview at the London Embassy was several days ago.
The process is a lot of waiting around until your number is called. First interview is just a quick fact checking. The second interview, which lasted all of five minutes, was the important one. The chap asked me why I wanted to visit the USA (family), why I’d gone to North Korea (holiday), and why I’d renounced US citizenship (I said it was because of FATCA-that I couldn’t open any investment accounts or a private pensions). He asked if I had my CLN with me, which I didn’t, but he waved away my offer of showing him the scan which I have on my iPhone. The visa request has been granted.
Interestingly, the first chap only identified that I might be a US citizen because of my place of birth. Their systems quite obviously didn’t record that I’d renounced last year.
Current stories about treatment of some US citizens detained by US border agents while returning from Canada into the US;
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/discrimination-has-no-place-at-the-u-s-canada-border/
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/edward-alden-crackdown-by-u-s-customs-and-border-protection-likely-to-drive-a-deeper-wedge-between-canada-and-u-s
https://globalnews.ca/news/6454720/iran-extreme-vetting-border-whistleblower/
Not about US impeding Canadian/dual/US citizen, etc. travel across the border, but innocuous Canadian mail impeded for no reason:
‘Whitby man puzzled after his letter to Michael Moore was stopped at the border’
Jason Miller Fri., Feb. 7, 2020 Toronto Star
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/02/04/whitby-man-puzzled-after-his-letter-to-michael-moore-was-stopped-at-the-border.html
If regular innocuous correspondence is treated this way, it doesn’t bode well for the treatment of Canadians travelling crossborder by US border agents now operating on Canadian soil – while our federal government colludes to give the US freer rein on our sovereign soil;
ex. “…. Canada’s privacy commissioner has argued that protection appears to be “hollow” due to Canada’s State Immunity Act, which grants the U.S. government immunity in most cases.
“A Canadian who believes a U.S. customs official has broken Canadian law has little recourse in the courts,” states the Office of the Privacy Commissioner’s website. “…….
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/preclearance-act-federal-government-u-s-border-1.5429662
Here is current advice to lawyers re safeguarding privileged information on electronic devices;
https://www.nationalmagazine.ca/en-ca/articles/law/hot-topics-in-law/2019/best-to-remain-suspicious
Plenty more press on this issue available for anyone who wants more info…..
Just in the process of opening a new account with RBC and the sum total of their FATCA/CRS compliance was a checkbox down at the bottom of the personal info page that said “I am a resident of another country for tax purposes.”
No additional information about what this means, no mention of citizenship, US or otherwise. Nice to see they’re still only doing the bare minimum to clear the bar.
Same experience with Santander.
@Mike
Not sure what country you’re in (Canada for me) but for new customers, does the bank have an ID requirement with birthplace?
UK now. No birthplace ID needed to open accounts. I had to ask about FATCA, she had no idea what I was talking about.
Belgium, where I lived until fairly recently is an ID card with birthplace on it, no escape.