February 17, 2020 at 10:54 pm (Edit)
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Yes, I am a renunciant and stand up to U.S. induced trauma. Thank you for your support and recognition of the wider problem beyond FATCA.
@ Mr. A
There are a number of U.S. persons “hiding in plain site” whom I know personally. They live in Canada as I do. I think that this is more a matter of being afraid and hiding behind current Canadian protections for their own citizens which keeps them private. Not that this is an excuse for not supporting the lawsuit and standing up for their own rights. And as we know, these things can change.
Ron Henderson says
February 18, 2020 at 11:31 am:
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What do “afraid” and “hiding” have to do with it? It’s a pragmatic decision not to file US taxes – there’s nothing to fear. And what does “private” mean in this context? It’s simply prudent not to publicize one’s decision to ignore US tax compliance.
In the case of Boris Johnson he bailed after he got stung by the IRS on real estate. I think his response to people in the U.K., In a similar situation was “I’m out of it” or there a-bouts. As I said you are on your own.
You are indeed on your own. Fortunately, at present, nobody in Canada will be hurt by the IRS unless they choose to let this happen to themselves. (Unfortunately, however, lots of people don’t know better and get talked into doing silly things by the tax industry.)
“Unfortunately, however, lots of people don’t know better and get talked into doing silly things by the tax industry.”
Or the media with their sensational but ignorant reporting.
You are right on about the tax compliance industry and the media. If you start filing taxes and stop your accountant will notify the bank. The media wants to keep stirring the pot and quite frankly in Canada protect Trudeau. You might notice that they have never asked about the ridiculous situation Sheer ( and the rest of us) are in. They are couching-the issue in terms of Scheer being a Trump stooge if he is (or was) elected rather than Trudeau’s reluctance ( or any other western leader’s reluctance )to confront the U.S. government.
“If you start filing taxes and stop your accountant will notify the bank.”
Evidence, please. (I assume you mean US taxes?)
First hand experience. Your accountant has all your info.
What precisely did your accountant say to your bank, and what would the consequences of this be?
I am fortunate to not have an accountant, so I’m simply asking out of curiosity.
That you have U.S. indicators. Your info is sent to the IRS via the CRA.
Let me get this straight: your bank was not aware of your US citizenship; you told your accountant that you wished to no longer file US tax returns; your accountant notified your bank that you were a US citizen so that you would be subject to FATCA reporting.
One thing is clear: your accountant is a complete dick. Presumably not your accountant any longer.
You got it. He was also charging a fortune. Complying and then getting fed up with the whole thing is probably the riskiest position to be in today. Things could work out or they might not. In any event It is no longer a concern for me.
I don’t think he said the accountant told the bank That would be unethical. Not that this particular accountant was ethical. What he probably said was your bank is going to tell the IRS. Sounds like something moody’s would do. Still a dick and a good reason to fire him. He was putting his own interests above his client’s. Too bad JimA didn’t discover IBS beforehand.
Very disturbing that Andrew Sheer has decided not to renounce US citizenship. It seems to me he must be quite clueless as to the tax implications of being dual.
The US economy and impact from Covid 19 will be a very interesting situation. It indicates the poverty of their healthcare system and lack of public health funding as well. I also think that the virus may bring them down.
Maybe he doesn’t actually file US tax returns. It’s not like anything bad would happen if he didn’t, after all.
Wonder whether Andrew Sheer files US tax returns or not? Want if like Boris Johnson “he got stung by the IRS”? I’ve always thought that it’s not a good idea to be like an ostrich, with one’s head in the sand when it comes to the IRS and FINCEN. We’ll see what comes out on this one but in general better to protect oneself proactively when it comes to dealing with cross border thugs.
Scheer claims he’d been filing but I wouldn’t be surprised if he hadn’t, he’s a shifty character.
People often assume that Boris “got stung” by the IRS. He did not. The likely story is this: Boris filed US tax returns for years because he had US income sources – speaking fees and book royalties. Then he sold his London house at great profit, and some time later his accountant presumably informed him that he owed the US a good chunk of capital gains tax. He was rightly annoyed and shot his mouth off about it in the press. (Added twist: he was mayor of London at the time and publicly complaining about the US embassy not paying diplomats’ parking fines.) He then renounced, and presumably payed some percentage of the US taxes owed.
The main point is, had Boris not been a public figure and not already been filing, particularly with US income, he would have been perfectly fine to ignore the IRS. Just as every other dual citizen with no US assets etc. is perfectly free to ignore the IRS and FATCA and all the rest of it. There are no “cross border thugs” – unless you mean the lawyers and accountants who will helpfully recommend compliance.
Of course Boris got stung. The fact some people could and should have ignored the bill is neither here nor there. I’m sure other people will also feel they have to pay, for whatever reason.
Boris stung himself. If he’d kept his mouth shut and known what he was doing – admittedly, both qualities he’s not known to possess – he could have renounced before selling the house, or simply failed to declare the capital gains while hurriedly renouncing. Main point being, the IRS didn’t “come after” him; he went on record complaining about a tax bill he could have easily avoided or evaded.
Boris got bad advice, He was an MP in 2001 and later Mayor of London. Either one would have been a relinquishing act. All he had to do was state he took the position and intended to give up his US citizenship. He would have saved $2350 plus all the capital gains taxes and accounting fees.
Regarding the earlier point about Scheer: “It seems to me he must be quite clueless as to the tax implications of being dual.”
There are no (US) tax implications to being dual. Unless you decide to create them for yourself, or allow a tax professional to do so on your behalf.
The way I remember it is that Boris complained quite publicly about the US tax system during an NPR radio interview that he was giving to plug his recent book. Specifically, he complained that according to US tax rules he was expected to pay CG tax on the London house he had recently sold, even though he had left the US when he was a child and hadn’t lived there since. He further stated that he considered the US CBT system to be outrageous, and that he would refuse to pay that tax.
I have no idea whether or not he had been previously filing anything, but after rubbing the IRS’ nose in it during that interview, they most likely “reached out” and explained to him how they had the power to screw him on his book royalties and any other future US source income if he didn’t meet his US tax “obligations”. In other words, he made some major mistakes: 1. having US source income and 2. making a very public stink. Had he not shot off his mouth during that interview, no one would have been the wiser about the house sale, and he could have ignored that capital gains tax.
He had previously experienced an annoying incident where he was refused boarding on a flight that stopped in the US on the way to Mexico because he couldn’t produce a US passport. His family flew on to Mexico while he was forced to follow them later on a different flight. Even in those early days, he already had ambitions to be Prime Minister and it was becoming obvious that getting rid of US citizenship was a necessary step toward that end. Boris is apparently smarter than Scheer.
“Boris is apparently smarter than Scheer.”
That is the cruelest thing anyone has ever said about Andrew Scheer.
Undoubtedly only a small increment, but every little bit helps.
“Boris stung himself.”
Then the IRS stings nobody abroad, they all sting themselves.
Yes, precisely. That’s the point we’ve been making for years. US citizens abroad are never actively stung by the IRS; they sting themselves, directly or through the selfless kindness of the tax industry.
Some people have particular vulnerabilities, such as those with (or expecting to inherit) US assets, or non-dual US citizens who fear for their passports, or who live in countries with collection assistance agreements (though our one celebrated example, poor Mr. Dewees, brought it all down on his own head). But they are the exceptions.
FATCA and banking problems are a different issue, and a serious problem for some people in some countries.
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