Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@Mykitty, yes you will. Hopefully you’re on the downward slope so be strong, try and put this to the back of your mind for a little while and enjoy Christmas with your family and friends.
@calgary411,
I’d like to exchange a private email with MyKitty. Could I trouble you to forward my email address?
Done, WhatAmI.
Someone who renounced on Sept 06 in Vancouver has their CLN as of yesterday. I relinquished on Sept. 26th in Toronto. I hope this is a good sign and mine comes soon.
Seems as if Toronto has been having longer turn around times on this though looking at the chart. I really want this thing out of the way. My dad’s health has been going downhill all fall and winter.
@mykitty
You will need your start date with the government.
I went through a lot of red tape to get mine verified..
The start date is the date they put on the CLN. Without it, the OCS lawyer will not sign off on it.
Mine is awaiting delivery in Calgary.
Otherwise, it sounds like you are on track.
@Benedict Arnold
I have the actual oath that I signed with a date on the actual oath. I have my letter of offer, and my resignation … along with the governments acceptance of my letter of resignation. I would be OK if they dated the CLN with my resignation date.
Hopefully that will be enough.
@Atticus, sorry to hear about your dad. Hope the CLN comes soon and with it more peace of mind.
@Mykitty
One would think the actual oath date evidenced should do it…
@AtticusinCanada, I Relinquished Sept.19th and have NOT received CLN, hoping it will be soon!
Having to deal with the uncertainty along with a family member’s health, and that family member living across the US border, must be horrible for you, Atticus. Is there no end to the insanity? I hope there is a CLN for you soon and that your dad’s health improves. (Are CLNs for claimed relinquishments longer than for renunciations?)
@Atticus and Calgary411
I hope the renunciations/relinquishments, pain, suffering and blowback are worth the few shekels they’re squeezing out of us.
Honestly? I think with so many going ahead with this and with the consulate confirming our paperwork is in order they ought to just start printing off the CLN’s at the consulate and then inform D.C. once it’s done that we are done too. But oh nooooo. That would be way too simple. Why can’t they trust that the consulate has confirmed all the paperwork is complete, you’ve taken the oath and allow them to present raised seal CLN documents? After all the consulate deals with the hard part. All D.C. does is issue the so called official piece of paper. The waiting is ridiculous.
AND you get no way of knowing if and when it’s coming. With relinquishment you don’t even get a receipt of any kind to show at the border. @saddened I hope you get yours soon too!
At least that part of this will be over with once it comes. I don’t know if we can compare turn around times for Vancouver vs. Toronto. it actually looks like Vancouver is getting their CLN’s faster. Tick tock!
I am still awaiting my CLN in Melbourne but it’s early days (relinquished Sept 5, appointment with consulate October 20).
All will probably be okay, but I’ll feel better once I have it in my hand.
I don’t know where to post this, but Ozteddies has passed away.
He told me shortly before his death that he did would not see gay marriage legalised in his lifetime in Australia, and unfortunately he was right 🙁
But he did manage to escape the clutches of the US govt, and provided others (especially myself!) with much-appreciated information and support.
RIP Chris.
@Atticus,
I see no reason why they could not just even acknowledge that you have submitted your requisite paperwork for processing, pending a final official decision. That does not bind them to a specific decision or outcome.
But they are determined to make it as difficult as possible, and erect all manner of barriers. The renunciation fee of 450 alone is enough to discriminate against those who cannot afford it. Imagine the cost to a family who all renounce?
At what point does this become a diplomatic issue if we in Canada, as Canadian citizens are being effectively obstructed by the US (a foreign power) from divesting ourselves of our non-Canadian citizenship and we want to be a Canadian only? Where is the official Canadian disapproval of the US tactics on Canadian soil?
I only hope that the truth of the true numbers comes out and shines the spotlight on what so many have been forced to do in order to preserve their Canadian family savings, and protect their non-US family and businesses.
@shunrata
This is sad news to hear that oz teddys, Chris, has passed on. His help to you and others will be always remembered. I am so sorry.
@ shunrata
Oh that is very sad news about ozteddies. He was indeed a good source of help. You get impressions from reading people’s comments here and my impression of ozteddies was that of a kindly person.
Thanks, shunrata, for passing this sad news on to us. I wish Chris had lived for his wish to have gay marriage legalized in the country the Ozteddies chose to live and am thankful for the escape from US clutches. I so appreciated all contributed here of the ozteddies story. My sincere condolences.
…and I hope, shunrata, you soon have your own CLN. Thanks for all your contribution here too.
@calgary
Thank you… I am being just a wee bit paranoid I think, but I’m keeping quiet while waiting.
Hopefully once I have my CLN I can tell you some more things about my situation 🙂
And put my experience in the Consulate list.
@All, as soon as I heard that my local bank had chosen to enter category 2 in the US “program”, I called the bank to inquire on what they needed from me.
For those who don’t know what category 2 is, it means that a bank, for whatever reason, claims that it assisted Americans to evade US taxation. From the view of the bank, claiming such doesn’t mean that the bank actually did so, but rather that it cannot prove that its clients were compliant with US taxation. In other words, all banks are pressured to go into category 2 regardless of innocence. The bank will then go through a process of proving client innocence and if no guilt is found, then the US suggested that it might be switched to category 3.
The staff said that they would inquire and let me know. So, a few days later, they called back and asked 3 questions:
1) When did you renounce?
2) Do you have a CLN?
3) Did you file 8854?
Upon answering those questions, I was told that I’m good to go and all that I need to do is to bring my CLN and 8854. I forgot to make a copy of 8854, though, before sending it off, so I’ll have to call the IRS to see if they can send me proof of having filed it.
So, it looks like form 8854 is just as valuable as a CLN and that it is better to renounce/relinquish before a bank enters the US “program” if one wishes to avoid the hassles of proving innocence.
@ SwissPinoy
It sounds more like a pogrom than a program. The escalation in the search for and the documentation required for “US persons” banking in Switzerland is a perfect demonstration of mission creep. After US persons overseas are rounded up and fleeced who will the USA go after next?
Question: does anyone have any experience on getting an “initial DS-4083” per recommendation from the American Expatriation Guide from Casey Research: “In any case, make sure you leave your renunciation appointment with your CLN in hand. If for some reason they don’t give it to you automatically, tell them you’d like one of the CLN copies (you’ll have signed several) as a record that you completed the process here today, even though you know it’s not final until the State Department approves it. Why am I making a fuss over this? Because CLNs are now taking a long, long time to be processed by the State Department. We’re talking several months to as long as a year. I believe this is because they’re swamped with renunciations, but regardless of the reason, you need your CLN, even if it’s not the stamped version. I recommended making a couple copies of it right away and storing them safely.” – link: http://archive.org/stream/AmericanExpatriationGuide/20100517_AmericanExpatriationGuide_djvu.txt
CanadaExpat388,
There was some discussion on this way back. Very few Consulates will give you a copy of what you have signed at your renunciation meeting, which is wrong in itself in my opinion. A few have. You will, though, now that there is the $US450.00 fee, come out with a dated receipt for that payment. For a relinquishment, as far as I know, no one has come away with any kind of receipt.
@ CanadaExpat388,
I don’t know of any doing it in almost two years. We’ve had reports of some consulates providing a letter stating that the person has renounced. I remember Lord Jim wrote that London did. But as Calgary411 pointed out, your receipt for the $450 will indicate it’s for renunciation. Also if you’re crossing the border, a vice consul at Toronto informed us that the border stations have access to a database that indicates you have a CLN file in progress.