Renunciation and Relinquishment Questions – Part 1 of 2
Ask your questions about Renunciation here.
This thread will be focused closely on renunciation questions and answers. If the conversation starts to ramble, those comments will be moved to another thread.
Sub-topics (more will be added as they occur):
Farrell v. Tillerson. Plaintiff is contesting Bern Embassy’s rejection of his CLN application due to his not having appeared in person at the embassy and his having been issued a passport after the relinquishing act.
Previous Renunciation Threads:
Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions)
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This thread is now closed. Please comment on Renunciation and Relinquishment Questions – Part 2 of 2
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@Confused
Or you just ask to renounce without filling out the form, which should not be required for straight-up renunciation.
If you’re planning to renounce rather than relinquish, the 4079 is not required. Some embassies ask for it anyway.
You could go back to the Embassy to let them know that you plan to renounce, that you’re not trying to claim a relinquishing act, and therefore you won’t be completing the form.
I am planning to renounce. From the questions on the form it appears that I would not be eligible to relinquish anyway as I lacked intent. I want to renounce. I would not like to refuse to fill in the form but I will explain I am confused by it.
Excuse me, I had meant to thank all who responded for their replies.
I spent several hours last night googling/reading information and felt I had made some progress.
This morning, back on the computer where I came across a comment by a commercial service saying I could not use the FEIE on my final tax return. Which has presented me with something else to research. I have limited my reading in the past as I got to the point where it was not helpful, especially as I have read conflicting advice, as well as advice which is incorrect, at various places on the internet.
I will be relieved when I have found my way through these issues and renounced.
A lot depends on when you performed the potentially relinquishing act. If it was before June 2004, then it would be greatly to your advantage to claim that it was your intention to give up your us citizenship. If it can be established that you relinquished before then, you would have NO tax filing obligations.
If that is not the case, many here would argue that it Is silly to file final tax returns anyway.. Every situation is different.
As others on this site already know, I’ve never filed a US tax return in my life, and I certainly shan’t be now that I’ve renounced. But my entire financial life is in the UK. If someone has US assets or income, they might want to take a different path.
Does anyone have any advice in terms of whether it’s a good idea to provide a statement or not? If it is advisable, would it be detrimental to use my disagreement with the IRS’s requirement for citizens abroad to file yearly as a reason for wanting to renounce? Or, should I just use the statement as an opportunity to acknowledge the ramifications and to solidify my intent?
@ DJ,
People generally do not provide a statement. I recommend not doing so as in not writing one, you don’t have to worry about writing anything “wrong “or something that could be taken the wrong way.
Re: “Or, should I just use the statement as an opportunity to acknowledge the ramifications and to solidify my intent?”
There’s need to acknowledge the ramifications in a statement, as you’ll do that in the DS-4081 (Statement of understanding of consequences), nor a need to solidify your intent as “I have the intention of relinquishing my United States nationality is also in the DS-4081.
Best to not include a statement. Keep it simple
@DJ
I wouldn’t mention anything in connection with taxes on a statement.
I did provide a written statement which mentioned the difficulty in keeping a simple bank account ( which was the situation in Switzerland at the time). The Consul said it was not necessary but I included it anyway. You really don’t need to as they know why we are all leaving the plantation.
Thanks for the information. I’ll keep it simple as suggested.
Have any of you had any trouble with banks after providing your CLN (perhaps in terms of ignorant employees)? Just curious how smooth everything has been for you guys after all…
I only had to supply my CLN to the investment company which holds my Unit Trust ISA (my own bank, I believe, has no idea that I was a US citizen). They confirmed in writing that they had amended their records to show that I was no longer a US citizen. At any rate, ISAs are not reported under FATCA, so it probably didn’t worry them very much.
I received my CLN today, one month after my appointment. Thank you again to everyone who gave me such helpful advice and support.
@Rose pleased to hear it.
I scanned mine and have a copy on my iPhone in case I need to show it when entering the USA.
@ Rose,
Glad to hear, especially that it’s arrived within a month. Congratulations on getting it all wrapped up 🙂
Thanks both! Good idea about scanning onto my phone. I’m not sure if I should tell my bank, or wait for them to approach me. My only contact from them was a pop up on my online banking which asked me to confirm I was born in US. I suppose it would be best to just tell them.
My main bank never asked me, but I think it’s because I’ve banked with them since 1986 and they simply didn’t know I was born in the USA. As for the company which holds my unit trust ISA, I sent them a copy of the CLN and they confirmed in writing that they’d removed the US marker from my account. I know that ISAs are not reported under FATCA, at the moment, but I wanted the marker removed in case that changed in the future.
By the way, when I entered the US in October last year, the border guard waved away my offer to show him my CLN, even as the London Embassy official did when I had my interview for my US visa. I guess just the fact that you are willing to show it to them is enough.
Thank you BirdPerson. I’ve had my account 42 years, and they do know I was born in US, so probably best to just clear the slate! It’s such a relief to get it over with.
I’m pleased to say I got my cln today (i was the one asking all the questions!).
I experienced a few differences at the place I renounced:
1.The ds 4079 wasn’t destroyed at my appointment
2.I was brought into an office at the consulate to sign ds 4079, statement of consequences and the CLN.
3 The consulate provided the self addressed tracked envelope and posted it out to me
It was very informal and friendly service
Going for a long nap and having a large glass of wine after all the stress.
Congrats, I’m glad it’s all done for you!
@ Purpleflower,
Glad to hear your CLN has arrived and that your appointment went well too. Thanks for your report, which I’ll add it to the Consulate Report Directory.
i just received my appointment for renunciation. can anyone let me know what questions they have been asked and what ‘good’ answers are to these questions? i have been told by some people not to talk about tax/banking/reporting requirements as reasons for renunciation. what are topics that should be avoided when answering their questions? i have many reasons (not just tax stuff) that have lead me to this point, but i am scared that i might say something that will be a ‘red flag’.
I just said that I wanted to only be loyal to one country, the one on which I’d spent my entire adult life. My other answer would have been FATCA.
You don’t need to give a reason for renunciation. It’s not an interrogation.
The best approach is to not say the T word; if the subject comes up at all, just mutter something about my life is here and I have no ties to the US. They know full well why people are renouncing – FATCA mostly – and have no desire to pry.
Consular officials have a duty to ensure that you are not renouncing under duress, are mentally competent, and fully understand the implications of your decision – which is why, quite rightly in my view, young people will be treated to more of a discussion – but they are not there to deny your desire to renounce because your reasons for doing so fail to meet some criteria for validity.
That being said, someone who’s been to an interview recently will probably be along to offer more current advice.
@ Appointmentnextweek,
I echo Ron. Also, take a look in the Consulate Report Directory. It has 275 paqes of people’s consulate reports, organised by location.
They generally don’t ask many questions at the appointment, especially at places where they’re really used to doing it (such as Toronto, London, Bern). The consul will have looked over the forms you sent in before they meet with you. That generally tells them all they need to know, and the meeting itself is pretty short.
FWIW, in my experience at Toronto a few years ago, it took about 5 minutes face time with a clerk, wait in the waiting room 45 minutes, then about 10 minutes face time with the consul, which was mostly singing papers and pushing them back and forth across the counter. There’s lots of other examples in the Directory.
If they ask a reason, you don’t have to give one. Personally I feel it’s best just to answer something to keep things running smoothly — have a neutral one-liner ready in your mind, such as “because my life takes place entirely in Canada and I’ve come to feel 100 percent Canadian” or BirdPerson’s suggestion “I said that I wanted to only be loyal to one country, the one in which I’d spent my entire adult life.”