How to Renounce/Relinquish
Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart
Department of State Forms, Procedure Manuals, and Contact Info
Expatriation Date, Form 8854 & Certificate of Loss of Nationality
Important if Relinquishing Act Prior to June 4, 2004
Very important for pre-2004 relinqishers to read, the posts/threads at this link also contain some useful information for those who relinquished after June 4, 2004, or are planning to do so.
Interactions between Department of State and IRS regarding Renunciation/Relinquishment
You can renounce (or apply for a relinquishment-based CLN) if you have not filed taxes. Here’s some general information, with source links, relating to that and the relation between DoS and IRS in the context of renunciation/relinquishment.
IRS Ruling on Relinquishment and Retroactivity, 92-109
Relinquishment and Renunciation Data
The actual “relinquishment and renunciation data” was integrated into the Appendix of the Consulate Report Directory in 2013 (tracking chart of people’s wait times from booking to consulate appointment to receipt of CLN) and is continually updated there. The thread itself , however, has remained open and popular.
Relinquishment by Persons-Born-Dual or Who Naturalised in a Foreign Country as a Minor
Although a person who is already a citizen obviously can’t relinquish by naturalisation, any adult can relinquish by taking employment with a foreign government (or its subdivisions) or by joining the military.
Relinquishment by Naturalisation (INA, s. 349(a)(1)) by Person Born in US to Canadian parents: Cheryl’s Story. Relinquishing act (naturalisation) was her registering her birth abroad with the Canadian government in 1977 when she was an adult.
Cheryl’s detailed story contains information of particular interest to Canadians and general information which may also be useful to those of other countries and those with slightly different fact sets as well.
Reports by Persons who Relinquished US Citizenship Upon Taking Government Employment, Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a)(4)(A)
Self-Documented Relinquishment
The relinquishing act itself causes the citizenship loss. A CLN provides proof of it, but it’s not the only way to prove it.
Estate Matters for Former US Citizens
How the 877A Exit Tax May Apply to your Canadian Assets
This is a series of nine posts on different aspects of the exit tax. Much of it is relevant to persons in all countries.
Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin
The title highlights Dublin, but this post contains a chart of links to consulate websites’ and their info re renunciation appointments around the world, as well as ongoing discussion of the topic.
@Maz 57
Thats pretty much my understanding. If FShower has never actively applied for US citizenship, then as a child born outside the US to pre Naturalized parents then she is not a citizen. She would have had to apply and fit the criteria . She would need to have and to show a Naturalization certificate to renounce as I did, unless of course she was US born.
I don’t have US birthplace. I was issued US passport before.
So you are a US citizen, but as mentioned previously, just ignore it if you have another passport showing a non-US birthplace.
@Ron
Thank you for the reply.
I still hope to know if it’s possible for me to renounce under the circumstance (not sure what to put on DS4080), just in case I decided to do so.
Why would it not be possible? If you are a citizen, you are allowed to renounce. Period. If you have a US passport, even expired, that demonstrates that you are a US citizen. You were probablynaturalized at the same time as your parents, but if you don’t know the details because you don’t have the original paperwork, you can probably have that looked that up or just guess on the DS 4080.
If they don’t recognize you as being a US citizen and don’t allow you to renounce, that’s even better, because you just saved $2350! It won’t matter anyway because you don’t have a US birthplace. The implication here being that you don’t really need to bother renouncing – just ignore the fact that you were once turned into a US citizen – unless there is some complex financial reason to do so, involving US assets.
Also, don’t forget to file a 2019 tax return to get your free $1200 “stimulus check” from the US government! Suddenly there’s a good argument for compliance.
@flowershower
I guess your parents must have registered you as a child. If renouncing is something you chose to do then you could email the Embassy and ask for their help in locating your Naturalization cert/ number. I naturalized as an adult back in the late 80’s but I had to produce my certificate as they could not find mine! I guess this was in the days of paper filing.
Unless you have a specific financial reason for renouncing it might be better to forget you were ever a US citizen. Change your bank if you have to.
@FS
I am still a little confused, were your parents already naturalized US citizens when they gave birth to you? In that case you did not Naturalize, you were a citizen at Birth, wherever you were born, all they had to do was register you.
This situation has really got me scratching my head. The bottom line though, is that possessing a US passport proves flowershower is definitely a US citizen, regardless of how that happened. My question is what problem is flowershower trying to solve by renouncing US citizenship? If there are no problems, why bother? Having a non-US birthplace is the one thing money can’t buy and one’s ticket to financial freedom.
As for how to fill out DS-4080, you have to keep in mind that this is a government form invented by a government bureaucrat that can’t possibly cover all situations encountered in real life. For instance, the form asks for the former US address of the applicant and we know that many accidentals that have renounced have never even set foot in the US, let alone had a US address. If I were filling out the form I’d write “unknown”, “n/a”, “other” or simply draw an X through the non-applicable fields. (Disclaimer: Personally I hate filling out forms and have always felt free to modify, skip sections, or deface them to suit my own purposes.)
My advice is the same as Heidi’s and RH’s above: forget about filling out DS-4080, forget about renouncing. and forget about US citizenship. If you are not “on the radar” right now, theoretically renouncing will put you on the radar because the State Department notifies the IRS when someone renounces. Save the $2350 and let sleeping dogs lie.
One consideration is if FS wants/ needs to visit the US in future. If FS lives in one of the ESTA countries she will have to answer on US state dept forms if she has ever had any other citizenships or if in a visa country there will be an interview and same questions will be asked. Its one thing lying to a bank another to lie to the US gov especially if you have family there you want to visit. I think in Canada is a little easier to visit the US?
Canadians need neither visa nor ESTA waiver, they just Can simply walk up to the border. The authorities don’t pay much attention to US birthplace on Canadian passports. (I was busted for it precisely once, and continued using the Canadian passport afterwards, without difficulty.)
Please advise and thank you in advance!
I am a Canadian-born, dual citizen (U.S), having received my dual citizenship in my late teens (my father is American and a landed immigrant to Canada). I thought it would be a good idea to have dual since I was living in New York City for approx 2 years and earning income. It is now more than 30 years later and have lived in Canada.
I stand to inherit my father’s house and assets in the near future and am told it would be wise to renounce u.s citizenship, since the IRS would tax me heavily. I have not filed u.s taxes in the last five years and only filed 3 years before that. My income is below $50,000 CDN per year and I have not owed Canadian taxes in years.
Can I renounce my u.s citizenship without filing back tax returns? I would be in the IRS system since I’ve filed in the past. I believe it is required to pay the renouncement fee as well as pay an accountant approx $500 per filing year, yuck!! Another reason for me to renounce is that I will leave my owned residence to my own kids one day, and they would be responsible for u.s taxes.
@Christina
There’s not enough information in your post to answer all your questions but there is a definite answer to one of them.
Yes, you can renounce without filing back returns (or Form 8854). Renouncing (the US State Department) is a totally separate matter from filing taxes (the IRS). After you have renounced, the State Dept. eventually gets around to notifying the IRS that you lost your US citizenship but there are no reports that the IRS does anything with that information, even if you have previously been in the US system. Many people have renounced, skipped the filings, and suffered no repercussions.
Its not possible to renounce presently because the Consulates are not booking appointments due to COVID19. No word yet on when things will get back to normal but undoubtedly there will be a huge backlog when that finally occurs.
@Christina
Who told you that the IRS would tax you heavily upon your inheritance? That is most likely not true.
Are your father’s house and assets in Canada or the US? That may make a difference. If it’s all in Canada there is generally no risk of the IRS taxing anything because (1) the IRS won’t know anything about it unless the executor decides to tell them; (2) US estate taxes don’t kick in until $5 million or something like that anyway (trusting my memory here, please verify). Have a discussion with your father and/or the executor, to ensure that the US government stays out of a Canadian estate.
As to your citizenship, if you were born in Canada, you really need do nothing. Do not tell Canadian banks that you are a dual citizen, and you will not be subject to FATCA reporting. If you have no US assets yourself, you are not at risk of being found or penalized by the IRS. It’s not necessary to renounce if you are comfortable keeping your US citizenship a personal secret.
In general, the IRS knows next to nothing about Canadians’ financial dealings – even after FATCA – and can be safely ignored. Your children would not be obliged to pay a US tax bill if they inherited a house from you before you had renounced.
If you do wish to renounce, however, this might be the year. You can claim the $1200 stimulus benefit, which is already half the renunciation fee, and with luck it will soon double to cover the entire cost. There may be some delay to clear the backlog when consulates finally reopen, however. As mentioned above, there is no requirement to become tax compliant in order to renounce. (You can even simplify matters by using the “non-filer” form to claim the stimulus benefit.)
@Christina
I’m one of those who renounced without filing any US tax returns. I have no financial life in the USA. I have yet, two years on, to hear anything from the IRS.
Christina. Yes you can renounce US citizenship without filing US taxes. One is not dependent on the other.
Why renounce? In your case it doesn’t appear to be necessary except for peace of mind. If you do, there is no need to file anything with the IRS. They are pretty busy sending out stimulus cheques with no resources to do so properly.
As far as your Father’s house is concerned- where is it? If in Canada, there is no problem. The US doesn’t have any right to tax it or even to know about it. With respect to your own house and your children, the same applies. Be wary of some accountants. They may try to frighten you into doing far more than required in order to make a buck. Some are quite unscrupulous.
@Christina
There really is no need for you to renounce regarding the inheritance of your Father’s estate.
The US estate tax is only paid on assets greater than $5.3 million per individual ($10.6 million per couple). The deceased owner of the Estate pays any tax due on the estate, that would be your American father. You do not say where his estate is situated, if in Canada then Canadian inheritance tax would be assessed first, then the US will look at anything left .
Your citizenship is not relevant.
As a Canadian born you should be able to keep your US citizenship hidden from any bank but if you are seeking freedom from this you can renounce and disregard any further tax filings as others here have explained.
Addendum @Christina
Your US citizenship may be relevant in the future for any US taxes that could be assessed on your estate after your death, unless your executor is willing and able to keep your US citizenship off any forms.
Any new US administration could change US estate/inheritance tax limits in the future. I believe Mr Obama wanted to reduce it to $500,000 or even lower.
@Christina
Here is a useful link.
See ‘inheritance issues’
https://www.taxesforexpats.com/expat-tax-advice/Analyzing-Your-Tax-Situation-if-you-Expatriate.html
The Taxes for Expats info on inheritance is useful, though of course gift taxes and all that only apply if someone is actually attempting compliance.
Otherwise, be aware that the text seems to have been written around 2011/12 so may not be entirely current, and the following statement is a bald-faced lie:
Utter bollocks.
@RH
Agree Bollocks, to the quoted section but I only pointed to the inheritance tax paragraphs, where form compliance would be out of our hands and in the hands of our executors.
If Christina’s father moved back to the States and his house and other assets are all situated in the US, when he dies it will be a US estate and will be settled according to US federal (plus the resident state) rules. Once the estate is settled and the estate tax (if any) has been paid, Christina can inherit in Canada with no further tax liability on either side of the border. It would be far less complicated to have a US executor in this case. This happens all the time and poses no problem whatsoever.
If, on the other hand, Christina’s father lives in Canada and all his assets are in Canada, then it is a Canadian estate which should be settled under Canadian rules. Canada doesn’t have an estate tax comparable to the US estate tax. Instead, everything is dealt with on the deceased’s final tax return. The risk here is if the executor, upon discovering the father is a US citizen, tries to comply with both Canadian and US estate tax law. This why its critical to pick an executor who is fully aware of the circumstances and who agrees beforehand that the estate will be settled in Canada only. There is no reason to get the IRS involved and absolutely no good can come from attempting to do that.
If Christina’s father lives in Canada, he is the one who should be thinking about renouncing US citizenship. (Which, of course, is not possible if he is not a Canadian citizen.)
If her father has assets on both sides of the border, then its time for some serious estate planning while there is still time to do something about it. Its better to take a few tax hits up front rather than leave a big mess that the heirs have to clean up.
Thank you to everyone who has taken time out of their lives to answer my questions. Very much appreciated!
My American father does in fact live here in Canada, and has for the past 55 years. All his assets including the house are in Canada.
I’ve been given advice from people who have renounced their u.s citizenship, and thought that leaning toward tax compliance would be the best thing for me to do, (for peace of mind) before renouncing. Now I’m not too sure….
@Christina
You don’t really need to do anything – not even renounce.
The only concern at this point would be to ensure that your father’s executor doesn’t needlessly bring his estate into US tax compliance.
Christina 3 options 1) Do nothing – best.
2) Renounce but file nothing. Costs $3000 and about 20 hrs. of your time.
3) Renounce and file. Cost about $7500. and 50 hrs plus anguish as to whether or not you are getting the filing right. ( It’s not possible to know if you are getting it right) This is the worst option- totally unnecessary and expensive.
Has anyone heard from the Embassies recently about appointments getting set for renunciation? I know everything was on hold but I am hoping as Canada opens up, so do they.
Hope springs eternal.