FATCA and France

97 thoughts on “FATCA and France”

1. Thanks badger. Very significant IMO.

2. A bilateral tax treaty has been concluded between France and the United States for the avoidance of double taxation, only in cases where French tax is lower than that due in the United States or certain income are not effectively taxed under French tax law and are, moreover, taxable under United States law, that additional taxation could be claimed by the US tax authorities.

   It’s official then (in the France-US treaty, and presumably in other US treaties:

   the US can tax dual USCs up to the US rate on income

   “not effectively taxed” or “not taxed up to the US rate” by the residence country.

   <b<Not on pretended income from pretended forced sales or pretended forced distributions (exit tax, transition tax).

   And that’s why the overwhelming majority of dual USCs living outside the US don’t file US tax returns and don’t need to, and will never have a problem with the IRS: they’re paying tax in their country of residence and are not affected at all by treaty provisions aimed at avoiding double taxation and preventing tax evasion.

   The old options are the best options, and are all perfectly legal:

   a) ignore
   b) renounce
   c) comply

   (sort order: price low to high)

   🙂 🙂 🙂

3. Should add: all the above IMO

4. It seems to me a clear acknowledgment by a spokesperson for one of the G5 countries who proposed and co-drafted the IGA, that having a US birthplace is not evidence of US tax liability.

   It follows (at least in my non-lawyer logic) that using US birthplace as the primary indication that an accountholder has a US tax liability (and putting the onus on the accountholder to prove otherwise), is indefensible.

5. @badger

   Very nice submission on les americains en France . Maybe we should join the EU…but then what difference would that make since we have a clueless PM .

6. Any IGA change that addresses the European bank access problems will presumably have to be acceptable to the EU, the residence country, and the US.

   If a (bank access) solution is agreed in one IGA 1 country, it should be available to all IGA 1 countries, if I’m not mistaken.

7. @plaxy, re; “If a (bank access) solution is agreed in one IGA 1 country, it should be available to all IGA 1 countries, if I’m not mistaken.”
   That is what I remember as well.

   @Robert Ross, perhaps all these efforts in several countries (lawsuit in Canada, the efforts in France, the Australian efforts, etc.) will together be more than the sum of their parts….

8. Was this posted already on this thread?
   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-16/-accidental-americans-in-france-press-macron-for-irs-relief
   ‘Accidental Americans’ in France Press Macron for IRS Relief’
   By Gregory Viscusi
   April 15, 2018
   ‘ French citizens born in U.S. denied bank services due to Fatca’
   ‘Macron’s MPs ask him to raise issue with Trump during visit’

9. It’s not over ’til it’s over but I think it’s nearly over 🙂

10. @plaxy, interesting to see it at Bloomberg. Will be in suspense as to what the outcome is, and whether there is any followup media coverage.

11. badger – yes indeed. Fingers crossed.

12. Though the Bloomberg article is I believe more about who gets to tax Apple and other MNEs – an issue which may continue to have implications for compliant (or wouldbe compliant) expat USCs, but won’t necessarily have implications for US-born individuals currently encountering FATCA-related problems with local accounts in IGA 1 countries.

    The corporate taxation / digital economy issue seems likely to be thorny, and I sympathize with would-be compliant expat USCs (America’s real diaspora) who find themselves caught up in the US – EU argy-bargy plus the US political argy-bargy on these matters.

    On the other hand, I’m optimistic that the FATCA-related bank access problems will be resolved, for US-born individuals (i.e. not entities) seeking to open accounts in their country of residence (for IGA 1 countries).

    Have to wait and see.

13. https://www.aaro.org/images/Press_Release-04-23-2018.jpg
    see AARO link to document per legal complaint in France, against BNP Paribas Bank described in English by AARO as;
    “….On April 22, 2018, a complaint for civil and criminal violations against the BNP Paribas Bank was filed with the National Commission for Informatics and Liberties and the Prudential Supervisory Authority, an independent administrative authority backed by the Bank de France, which protects customers of banking institutions.

    This complaint, registered by Pierre Ciric, a lawyer in New York and a client of BNP Paribas Bank, concerns a series of civil and criminal violations concerning the use of personal data of expatriate customers in the United States and subject to the US FATCA law ( Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act).

    According to this complaint, the BNP Paribas Bank is routinely blocking the accounts of expat-rated clients subject to the US FATCA law without sufficient legal basis, and is engaged in discriminatory practices vis-à-vis expatriates. trying to identify customers with “signs of Americanness”. In addition, the complaint denounces the existence of systematic exchanges of personal data between Bercy and the IRS since at least 1998, without the customers of the banks were never informed of these exchanges….”
    https://www.aaro.org/advocacy/fatca/657-a-fatca-complaint-filed-against-bnp-paribas-bank

14. Repatriation Tax Seminar:

    The 2017 US tax reform created two new taxes: the Repatriation and GILTI taxes. Although intended for US multinationals like Google and Apple, these taxes have a severe impact on American citizens and Greencard holders who are professionals or business owners living in France.

    This seminar, intended for U.S. and French tax professionals and Americans living in France who have interests in French Companies, will discuss the following:

    U.S. Tax Aspects:

    The Repatriation and GILTI Taxes
    The problem these taxes came to address.
    Understanding the new tax laws
    The impact these laws have on American business owners and professionals living in France
    Compliance timelines Planning options and advocacy alternatives
    French Tax Aspects:

    France’s first right to tax its residents on French-source income
    Taxation of dividends and retained earnings
    France-US Tax Treaty issues and Tax credits
    Planning alternatives
    Monte Silver is a U.S. tax attorney residing outside the U.S. Mr. Silver previously worked at the Estate & Gift Tax division of the I.R.S. and at the U.S. Tax Court. He specializes in providing advanced tax solutions to American expats. In addition to having published extensively on the impact of the Repatriation and GILTI taxes on Americans abroad, Mr. Silver has initiated a global tax advocacy effort to exempt expats from these taxes.

    The event will also feature two guest speakers:

    Emmanuel DINH, Professor at the University of Paris Dauphine, Director of the Master in Business taxation, Of Counsel, STCPARTNERS
    Melissa PUN, Attorney-at-law, Of Counsel, STCPARTNERS
    Date: Wednesday, May 2
    Time: 15:00-18:00
    Place: FIAP Jean Monnet, 30 rue Cabanis, 75014 Paris, Salle BERLIN
    Registration required: €15

    Please bring proper ID, as they will be checking at the door.

    https://www.aaro.org/events/upcoming-events/event/132-the-repatriation-and-gilti-taxes-for-tax-professionals

15. As posted by Barbara on another IBS thread
    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0504/For-accidental-Americans-the-hidden-costs-prove-taxing

16. https://www.cbanque.com/actu/67950/banque-en-ligne-pourquoi-les-americains-accidentels-ne-peuvent-pas-y-acceder
    ‘Banque en ligne : pourquoi les Américains accidentels ne peuvent pas y accéder ?’

17. Thanks badger. Interesting. There was much comment in the UK press in 2014 when NS&I (a bank owned by the UK Chancellor and operated wholly online) suddenly closed accounts belonging to USCs. Explanations were demanded, and NS&I stated that FATCA compliance wasn’t regarded as a worthwhile use of taxpayers’ money.

    There is another aspect to online (automated) operation. Most traditional banks also offer online services to their customers. If a customer applies for an account using these automated services, s/he can be easily and automatically sent down the path to rejection once a US place of birth is entered. No scope for reasonable explanations.

18. French AA group has posted on the American Expatriates FB page a link to a report on Senate consideration of the motion “for a resolution pursuant to Article 34-1 of the Constitution, inviting the Government to take into account the situation of “accidental Americans” concerned by the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).”

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/334650186701060?refid=18&__tn__=C-R

19. further to @plaxy’s post above, a direct link;
    http://www.senat.fr/espace_presse/actualites/201805/americains_accidentels_concernes_par_le_fatca.html#c640282
    13 mai 2018
    Accueil > Espace presse > “Américains accidentels” concernés par le FATCA
    “Américains accidentels” concernés par le FATCA
    Dernière mise à jour le 27 avril 2018

    Mardi 15 mai 2018 à 18 heures, le Sénat examine la proposition de résolution en application de l’article 34-1 de la Constitution, invitant le Gouvernement à prendre en compte la situation des “Américains accidentels” concernés par le Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), présentée par Jacky DEROMEDI et plusieurs de ses collègues, à la demande du groupe Les Républicains.”

20. “Tuesday, May 15, 2018, the Senate unanimously adopted the motion for a resolution pursuant to Article 34-1 of the Constitution, inviting the Government to take into account the situation of “accidental Americans” involved in the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), presented by Jacky DEROMEDI and others, at the request of the group Les Républicains.” (Google translation)

    http://www.senat.fr/espace_presse/actualites/201805/americains_accidentels_concernes_par_le_fatca.html#c640282

21. The resolution urges the French gov. to adopt measures respond to their concerns about
    their right to abank account
    the end of discrimination by french banks
    reciprocity with respect to FATCA
    information for French persons living in the US about fiscal consequences (if they leave?)
    the start of diplomatic efforts to make renunciation free, simple, and without fiscal consequences.
    reciprocity concerning the agreement of Nov 14, 2013. (IGA. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/business/international/us-and-france-agree-to-cooperate-more-intensively-against-tax-evasion.html)

    Courtesy of myhigh school French. No guarantees.

22. “information for French persons living in the US about fiscal consequences (if they leave?)”

    Perhaps warning them to get rid of a Green Card before those fiscal consequences kick in. And think very carefully, and think again, before going for citizenship.

23. “La nationalité américaine, un cadeau fiscal empoisonné ?”
    https://lepetitjournal.com/expat-politique/la-nationalite-americaine-un-cadeau-fiscal-empoisonne-224518

    aussi:

    “« Américains accidentels » : Une première bataille gagnée !”

    Une mission conjointe ministère des affaires étrangères – ministère de l’économie se rendra prochainement à Washington, les 28, 29 et 30 mai afin de négocier et obtenir des aménagements concrets. ’’Nous réclamerons des services dédiés à l’ambassade, une obtention simplifiée du numéro fiscal et la régularisation rapide des Américains accidentels sans taxe de renonciation à la nationalité américaine’’, a détaillé le secrétaire d’État.

    https://lepetitjournal.com/expat-politique/actualites/americains-accidentels-une-premiere-bataille-gagnee-230832

24. https://www.lesechos.fr/monde/europe/0301936622390-le-parlement-europeen-au-secours-des-americains-accidentels-2190567.php
    ‘Le Parlement européen au secours des « Américains accidentels »’
    Gabriel Gresillon Le 08/07 à 09:47

25. J’aime la phrase:
    “Américains un jour, Français toujours”

    http://www.europe1.fr/societe/des-americains-accidentels-manifestent-a-paris-pour-interpeller-donald-trump-3798305