Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart            Part 2

1,560 thoughts on “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart            Part 2”

1. Sorry if my previous post was written in wrong thread.

2. No wonder Vancouver is so far behind. They are making a two ro three day ordeal out of what should only take about 30 minutes.

3. re renunciation questionaire – #8 where it asks for dates of residence in the US. How many years back you have to fill in? 3 years? for the sunstantial presence test or longer?? Thanks

4. @downtherabbithole,

   I believe the questionnaire requires all of the years of actual residence in the US (vs substantial presence), i.e. were you born in the States and resided there for many years??; born in the States and moved to Canada when you were a child; had permanent residence in the States for a period of time with a green card?

   Substantial presence would have to do with if you were, say, a Canadian snowbird who went to the States in the winter but were not actually a ‘permanent resident’ but did not meet the ‘substantial presence test’ so overstayed and would then be taxable unless you had filed the yearly requisite Form 8840, Closer Connection Exception Statement for Aliens, http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8840.pdf

5. Hi thanks. does this mean if you left the US over 30 years ago you have to account for every visit you made back to the US in the last 30 years? even if you had no permanent address there? Not even US border immigration would have that info would they??

6. @downtherabbithole,

   No, visits would be different than residing in the States. If you left the States 30 years ago and have lived (resided) in Canada ever since (permanent resident, landed immigrant or Canadian citizen), then just put your date of birth through the date you moved to Canada as the dates you resided in the US.

7. I have my first appointment for renunciation at the Vancouver Embassy March 6. I feel like I have the golden ticket. I booked the appt on Oct 16. I will bring all forms such as DS 4079 etc, maybe Vancouver can do it one appt. Thanks for all the advice and stories on this blog.

8. Good luck with your March 6th appointment for renunciation at the Vancouver US Consulate, Kermitzii. Whatever you do, keep that — don’t cancel or have to postpone and go to the end of a very long line.

   We’re glad you’ve appreciated the advice and experiences of others here.

   I’ll start a new line for you for the database at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishment/ if that’s OK with you. Your experience will, in turn, help others.

9. So very impressed with what is being accomplished here. Thank you @pacifica and others for your dedication to keeping tabs on the consulates and embassies. Thank all of you for sharing your experiences so that we know what is currently happening, as well as recording the stats and stories of those who have made it safely to the other side.

   Am still wondering why they would try to make things lengthier, and more difficult rather than more efficient? Obviously people have good reason to make and act on their decision to renounce. And those who relinquished, or who lost US status decades ago are a fait accompli – so what’s to deliberate about? Obviously they are adults, and didn’t just hop on down to the consulates on a whim. And there are tens of thousands? a million? in Canada alone, who will have need of a CLN because of FATCA – but who lost citizenship decades ago.

   Are they just inept, or are they actively trying to impede the flow of renunciants? Coupled with the ludicrous figure from the last Federal register quarterly report, it is hard not to think about deliberate obfuscation and obstruction.

   How long can they hope to keep a lid on this?

10. Astute rhetorical questions, as usual, badger.

    I sent this to my favourite Calgary tax lawyer today:

    Since you have been working with the Calgary US Consulate on streamlining process and even Calgary letting lawyers accompany those going in to Calgary, it looks like all consulates in Canada may need working with!! so everyone gets a similar and fair process.

    I thought you might be interested in these comments and my recent email to Ottawa Embassy on behalf of someone who has her second appointment in Vancouver scheduled for July (a year in process):

    Lagoon
    Submitted on 2013/02/19 at 11:43 am
    RE: Consulate hours/days for booking relinquishment appointments in Calgary

    I received information this morning (Feb 19th) about the days and times that you can book for a relinquishment appointment in Calgary. Unfortunately, as I followed the directions provided by the Vancouver consulate for booking a relinquishment appointment, I now have to pay for and book a second flight to Calgary. Here is the copy of their email to me:

    “Unfortunately we are not able to see you on the April 5th appointment date. We are already fully booked as we have inherited many, many cases from Vancouver’s consular district. We are booking appointments the mornings of Tuesdays, Wednesday, and Thursdays. We have appointments open beginning the morning of May 8th. You can pick any morning from then on excluding the third Thursday of every month. Please indicate which morning you’d prefer and we’ll make every effort to book you in.”

    To book an appointment in Calgary you need to email: Calgary-ACS@state.gov

    Montreal going from one appointment to two appointments (I hope Calgary won’t be going to this with possible edict for all consulates to go back to 2 appointments):

    Ottawan
    Submitted on 2013/02/14 at 8:02 am
    I wanted to pass along my experience of visiting the US Consulate earlier this week to renounce my US citizenship. I live closer to Ottawa than Montreal but booked at the Consulate in Montreal because They had appointments that better fit my work schedule. After telling the Consulate official why I was there, her first question was whether I was from the Montreal area. I said that I actually lived closer to Ottawa and explained why I booked the appointment in Montreal. She told me that under a new policy issued last week, renunciations can only be done at whatever Consulate is closest to where the person lives and I would have to go to the Embassy in Ottawa if I wanted to renounce. I was also told that as of last week, all renunciations require two visits. When I questioned the requirement that I had to go to the Embassy in Ottawa, I received no further information. The Consulate official looked up the appointment schedule for Ottawa and told me there was an appointment available next week and she would book it for me if I wished. I felt like I really did not have option at that point so I said yes. She booked the appointment and sent me on my way. The staff were very professional and polite but made it very clear that I would not be provided any service by the Consulate in Montreal because I live closer to the Embassy in Ottawa. It was also made clear that all renunciations would require two consular visits as of last week.

    and forwarded my February 11 correspondence with General Consul, Ottawa Embassy, Sylvia D. Johnson, saying “haven’t heard any more so guess the person I was advocating for will have to come to Calgary, now booking in May.”

11. Montreal’s answer concerning my appointment for relinquishment :

    Your first appointment is only to open up an inquiry and to determine whether it is a relinquishment or renouncement. Please submit relevant documentation ie proof of US citizenship, proof of Canadian citizenship. The second appointment will e to sign under oath and pay the fees of US$450.00 if applicable.

    The application is then transferred to the State Department. Once approved by the State Department you will be notified. The delay for this last step is approximately 6 to 8 months.

    Regards,
    ACS

    After four times telling them I was interested in relinquishing, not renouncing.

    Actually, I had already decided to cancel my appointment. I have gotten together all the documents necessary for relinquishment, and then reread the info I received on IBS…special thanks to Petros, Duke of Devon, Pacifica and Calgary411…and all the other helpful people who have contributed. I am the type of person who has to read a lot of docs before making a decision (document analysis and queries were a big part of my career).

    I came to the same conclusion that Petros did right at the beginning of my questioning. In my position (old relinquisher, no need or desire to ever visit the States, below the radar for FATCA, no American assets, protected by my Canadian citizenship from any attempts by IRS to collect anything), I really don’t need a CLN, unless I want to frame it like a diploma 😉

    For a while I wanted to go thru the CLN process to make them admit that I no longer belong to them. However, their own doc. 7 FAM 1220 states that the presumption at the time people like me took their Canadian citizenship was that the were expatriating and that the date of the expatriating act is the date of the loss of nationality.

    That’s enough for me. Going thru the CLN process would be uselessly humiliating and a little frightening. The Montreal people seem to be dancing with two left feet and God only knows what they could mix up.

    I will consult IBS once a month because I want to keep abreast of this vital topic, and want to participate in any letter writing campaigns.

    Also, if IBS ever wants to make any of its press releases bilingual, I would be glad to volunteer for translating.

    Pacifica, I do think it would be a good idea to put something about Montreal’s requirements in the Consulate directory.

12. Old Warrier. Bien fait. Bonne chance. Le Duc

13. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/10/02/nestle-replaces-willy-wonkas-golden-ticket-with-a-gps-tracker-in-well-find-you-kit-kat-campaign/

    Will the IRS now find me? Calgary411 and badger, you have such interesting posts. It seems you must use half of your day composing these things. My main take on US extraterritorial taxation is that I had nothing to do with their debt and they cannot control me.

14. @Kermitzii,

    Thanks for the link on the Nestles Kit Kat gps tracker — having a nice option of giving consent for being tracked. No consent required for our tracking!

    Everyone has a different twist to the similar story that we all have in common. You’re right — we have NOTHING to do with USA debt.

    So glad you have found this site — it is a bit of sanity from our astonishment that our story is not being told in the gagged media.

15. Thanks for the update on your decision, Old & Simple.

    … and for your update on Montreal requirements. They seem to be going backwards from their former one-appointment policy (and cite ‘short of staff’ as the illogical reason?). Again, it should be the same process at each Canadian (and world) consulate — efficient and fair instead of obstructive.

    Thanks for staying tuned. We’ll appreciate your future contributions.

16. @calgary, and @kermitzii, and @all, thanks for granting me an ear to rant via my posts and rhetoric. If I didn’t have IBS, I’d be wandering the streets yelling about the IRS and US-citizenship-based taxation, to all those around me who have no reason to know about it or care. I’m trying to keep a grip. If not for IBS, I’d be thinking I was having paranoid delusions of US government persecution. Unfortunately, it is all too true.

17. @ badger
    Thanks for funneling your thoughts through Brock. We all benefit because often your writing puts into words some of the thoughts we are having and many we were getting close to but couldn’t quite consolidate. It all helps to keep us saner than we would be otherwise.

18. @Calgary, @Badger and @Em, it goes without saying that I too am always grateful for the advice and support I find here. My family and friends sympathize too but don’t fully comprehend, plus have lost patience. It thus really helps to be able to express all my worries and frustrations here where I know that others understand how we feel persecuted. Even after trying to explain, my family still can’t seem to see how unfair and overreaching the U.S. government have become. They think I’ve gone a little mad.

    It’s as though Americans are brainwashed.

19. @ badger

    “I’d be wandering the streets yelling about the IRS and US-citizenship-based taxation, to all those around me who have no reason to know about it or care. I’m trying to keep a grip. If not for IBS, I’d be thinking I was having paranoid delusions of US government persecution. Unfortunately, it is all too true.”

    actually every body should care. For all the “soak the rich” rhetoric FATCA is a massive wealth transfer to the relatively wealthy. The FFI’s will be the direct payers of this $1 trillion program, but the costs will be passed on to their clients who are ordinary people of modest means with no connection the the US

20. @Monalisa1776

    Its not just the Americans who don’t understand. My Canadian family doesn’t get it either. I suspect they think I have gone a little mad. Perhaps they are right. FATCA and US policy of citizen-based taxation is maddening.

21. @whitebait, exactly. I don’t. Want to agent off topic too much here but will be so relieved when they offer me a definite date for an interview and subsequent renunciation meeting…I’m sick to death of worrying that the IRS might try to subsequently. Hit me with huge penalties for my employer’s. Pension scheme and/or my ISA account because they could claim that I should have been also filing the 3520 forms which would double my accounting bills which are already way too high.

    It’s all a grey area and am concerned that my accountant may be taking an aggressive. And thus riskier position to try and save me money. But I am a risk-averse person so find it all so nerve-wracking; in other words, to be absolutely fool-proof compliant would be costing me north of $5,000 per year which I simply cannot afford!!! I just hope and pray that my case can be resolved before the end of the year so I can officially log out of the system next year and no longer have all this hanging over me.

22. @montalisa1776, Thanks for the laugh, ‘whiteBAIT’ is what I feel like I am for the IRS fishing net.

23. I wanted to provide an update on my renunciation experience and hopefully shine a little light for some who are in similar circumstances. In my post last week, I told of being turned away from the Montreal Consulate and told that I must do my renunciation at the Embassy in Ottawa. I was also told in Montreal that all renunciations would now require two visits. After reading comments/reports from others who had tried to renounce in Ottawa, I had resigned myself to a long and potentially unpleasant experience – that was not to be the case.

    I arrived at the Embassy in Ottawa this morning and after going through security, I was directed to the waiting room for American Citizen Services. The Embassy official at the counter asked why I was there and I explained that I wished to renounce my US citizenship. I was asked why I wanted to renounce at this time and I explained that I had given it a great deal of thought for a year and half and had made up my mind because my status as a dual citizen is problematic for my career goals. I was then asked whether I had completed any of the required forms and I explained that I had done the questionnaire, oath of renunciation and the statement regarding my understanding of what renouncing would mean.

    The Embassy offical advised me that there were a number of questions they had to ask me – they asked – I answered. I was asked for my Canadian passport, proof of Canadian citizenship, proof of US Citizenship and I provided these. I was then told to have a seat in the waiting room while the documents were typed up. A short while later I was asked to review the typed version of the documents and when I said they were ok I was sent to the cashier to pay my $450 and then asked to take a seat again. After about 15 minutes, I was asked to come to the counter again and was introduced to the Vice Counsel. He asked me several questions, verbally explained the consequences of renouncing, and asked whether I was certain that I wished to proceed. I responded that I wished to proceed and he asked me to carefully read each of the forms (the Questionnaire, the Oath of Renunciation and the Statement of Understanding) and then sign each form. After I signed the forms, he signed them and affixed his seal. He then explained that Washington would still have to approve the paperwork but when they did, the renunciation would be effective as of today. He said that it would be about 6 months for the CLN to arrive and they would call to let me know when it was ready for pick-up. The whole process was done in under 3 hours. The officials were professional, polite and were not confrontational or judgemental in their dealings with me.

    A little background of my specific situation – I was born in the US (mid-1960’s) while my Canadian citizen parents were living there for a few years as greencard holders. They registered me as a Canadian born abroad with the Canadian government which made me a natural-born Canadian citizen. A State Department official had, at the time, told them that if they registered me as a Canadian, I would not be a US citizen. I now know that what there were told was not necessarily correct however, I lived my entire life until the middle of 2011 believing that I was only a citizen of Canada. With the media coverage in 2011, I became concerned that I might be a US citizen so I went to the Embassy to confirm. I was told that I was a US citizen and I spent the last year and a half getting up to date with my IRS and treasury filings. I did not owe any US taxes and my assets are well below any threshold concerns for the Exit Tax. I never had a US passport, never voted in a US election, never did anything to indicate that I was claiming US citizen rights. In 1999, I began to work for the Canadian government and took an Oath of Allegiance to her Majesty the Queen. I did not try to argue relinquishment as I could not honestly say that I accepted the employment or that I took the Oath with the intent of relinquishing my US citizenship because I had no idea at the time that I was a US citizen. For me – renouncing rather than relinquishing was the best approach and it does seem to be possible for it to happen in one visit.

    I am very happy and relieved. I hope that the process is starting to improve, at least in some locations, and hope that others going through this will find their freedom soon.

24. @Ottawan,

    Thanks very much for the report of your, thankfully, positive experience for renunciation at the Ottawa Embassy. I, too, hope this is indication of the process there having improved. Unless you have an objection, I will enter your renunciation appointment as #2 of the reports for the Ottawa Embassy on the database at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishment/. Hopefully, you will receive you CLN well before the six months as has generally been recently reported for Canadian renunciations and relinquishments. Congratulations, Ottawan.

25. @Calgary411
    Thanks for your comments. I would be pleased if you added my comments to the Report. I hope that it will at least give some comfort to those who will need to go to the Embassy to do their renunciation/relinquishment.