29 thoughts on “New Accidental American Groups”

1. This is great. I guess they’ll eventually get around to North America!

2. Non-FaceBooking EU residents might like to know that the Petition can be signed at https://petiport.secure.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/petition/content/1088%252F2016/html/Petition%2Bre.%2B%2528i%2529%2Bthe%2Binfringement%2Bof%2BEU%2Brights%2Bfrom%2BFATCA%2Band%2B%2528ii%2529%2Bthe%2Bextraterritorial%2Beffect%2Bof%2BUS%2Blaws%2Binside%2Bthe%2BEU

   (You first need to register at https://petiport.secure.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/registration/register#registerFrm)

   Also worth emailing your MEPs urging them to support the Resolution.

3. The U.S. Gov’t will eventually get around to making the entire world pay American Taxes even though the cost of collection exceeds the revenue collected. If you had an ancestor who passed thru the U.S. while the sperm that created you was being formed then you are an AMERICAN, for tax purposes

4. In light of Trump’s behaviour, Canada should suspend FATCA reporting.

5. Yes, tax haven Canada.

6. Don: I enthusiastically agree!

7. Way past time to hold the US to its promise of reciprocity re FATCA reporting.
   https://www.angloinfo.com/blogs/global/us-tax/the-us-and-its-reciprocal-igas-oh-really/

8. So, anybody find out who this person is (these people are)? Is there any more to these “groups” than Facebook pages?

9. Is it called the IRS? Internal revenue service or the ERS? External revenue service?

10. Mailings in the 1990’s said they were from IRS International. I could guess what the R was. I couldn’t guess what the S was, but someone else said it’s like the way a bull Services a cow.

11. Zla’od, the new organizations are modelled after French Accidental Americans association which has made much progress in France. They are not just Facebook groups. They are real organizations aiming to help accidental Americans renounce easily without tax compliance. Fabien Lehagre is head of French association. He is trying to encourage accidentals in other countries to organize and bring awareness to public and media regarding plight of accidentals and put political pressure on governments to negotiate with USA to free accidentals.

12. So who is/are organizing these new groups?

13. Zla’od

    see Jules’ comment and the links in the post. Fabien has been working very hard for about the last 3 years and has succeeded in getting the issue in front of the French government.

    https://www.americains-accidentels.fr/page/222256-qui-sommes-nous
    https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/07/24/fabien-lehagre-on-frances-tv5/
    https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/accidental-americans-living-abroad-fight-tax-bill-uncle-sam-n867711
    http://www.internationalinvestment.net/tag/fabien-lehagre/
    https://www.google.ca/search?q=fabien+lehagre&safe=active&rlz=1C1CHWA_enCA516CA516&ei=3H4gW7GeNMTejwS-7oeIAQ&start=0&sa=N&biw=1455&bih=697

14. You keep talking about the French group. I’m talking about the UK, Irish, Italian, and Belgian groups. Or is Lehagre behind them too?

15. PS. The lede suggests that he is, but expresses uncertainty.

16. @Zla’od

    I am not talking about the French group but the person who is behind it as well as these new groups. He is trying to kickstart something. It is my understanding that these are umbrella groups.
    Perhaps you could try emailing the addresses listed above and ask

17. Don: but, but, but Canada would be reneging on an agreement. The United States would insist that agreements be respected.

    (sarcasm)

18. “The United States would insist that agreements be respected.”

    Yeah, the same as when the IRS writes a settlement. The IRS writes it, the victim signs it, the IRS signs it, and then the IRS chooses what happens next:
    (a) the IRS reneges, or
    (b) the IRS files it in court, and then after that, the IRS reneges, or
    (c) the victim reneges and gets fined more than a year’s salary and gets worse penalties …

    No, wait, that’s not what happens. Let me try again.

    (a) the IRS reneges, and the victim suffers legal expenses of more than a year’s salary and gets worse penalties, or
    (b) the IRS files it in court, and then after that, the IRS reneges, and the victim suffers legal expenses of more than a year’s salary and gets worse penalties, or
    (c) the victim doesn’t get a chance to renege because the IRS already did.

    (sadly there’s no sarcasm in this comment)

19. To all the Canadians who are accidental Americans, the president of the Association for French Accidental Americans is encouraging Canadians to start up their own association. Mr. Lehrage has posted in the citizenship taxation Facebook group seeking interested Canadians but did not get positive response. Please Brock Admin could you create a new post at Brock so Canadians can discuss this?

20. In case people are wondering what is definition of accidental, broadly speaking is anyone born in USA who left as a young child or anyone born outside USA to American parents. It does not matter if you had a US passport. Key is you left as young child and do not identify as American. Canada must have most number of accidental Americans in the world. It would be a shame if Canadian accidentals did not follow France’s lead. Canadian accidentals may be able to hide now by lying to banks but that option may soon change and with the crazy Trump, the situation for US persons in Canada could get worse. Time for accidentals in Canada and throughout world to demand recognition they are not American!

21. “Time for accidentals in Canada and throughout world to demand recognition they are not American!”

    A person is not necessarily American just because they got born in America and had to grow up and make their own way out, rather than being carried out by their parents as a child.

    I admire the work of Fabien LeHagre and the French association but it would be nice if it included all those who wish to renounce cheaply and easily. Restricting membership to those who left in childhood seems to accept snd confirm the Americans’ preposterous claim that US citizenship benefits a USC citizen wherever they live and work and save for their retirement, and therefore the US is entitled to a share of future earnings.

22. @Jules

    There is no need for a new post; that is what this post is for.

    We all know what an “Accidental American” is here. For goodness sakes, Brock is the original group for the anti CBT/nonresident taxation grassroots movement.

    If you have not received a positive response from Canadians, I do not know what to tell you.I have personally posted here, in citizenshiptaxation.ca maplesandbox ca and several facebook pages and the facebook citizenship taxation group. I have also supported Fabien from the beginning.

    Perhaps many Canadian “Accidental Americans” already feel represented by our ADCS-ADSC lawsuit as both of our plaintiffs are so-called “Accidental Americans.” This is a term many here do not even recognize as they take issue with the idea that they are anything but Canadians.

    At any rate Brock has provided support as a courtesy and perhaps “pushing” for a separate group should be done elsewhere.

23. Maybe there is no response from Canadians because we don’t know about it. After receiving an Email from Moody’s tax experts on the subject and going to their info session, I watched the France group on YouTube last night and what is happening over there is awful. For example, one woman had her bank account closed and a life insurance policy cancelled because her bank required her to provide an American Social Security Number or SSN which she didn’t have. (Of course I believe that getting one only helps the IRS even more in finding you).
    I had heard a bit about Amercians living in Canada having problems with the IRS and was warned to keep a low profile but I had no idea how dangerous the situation has become internationally. I might add that I recently renewed my mortgage without any problem, so maybe Canada is not cooperating with the IRS.

24. Be wary of Moodys. There was no reason to expect a problem renewing a mortgage. If you were to open a new account in Canada, you would be asked – are you a tax resident of the US? Or some variant of that question. The best answer is no. Canada is cooperating with the IRS.

25. @Monique

    Be extremely careful with any advice from Moodys. They will try to scare you into expensive, unnecessary compliance and renunciation.

    Bad things have happened in Europe, where banks have overreacted and closed accounts or refused services to US persons, with or without them having provided an SSN. This is overkill on the banks’ part, to the extent that both European and US governments are now complaining about it.

    In Canada there are no such problems. If you truthfully declare US citizenship to a bank, they may report your account information to the IRS under FATCA, but nothing else will happen. If you untruthfully fail to declare your US citizenship, the bank won’t notice or care. In other words, Canada is cooperating with the US, but it’s doing the bare minimum, and it’s very easy to avoid.

    Canadians with dual citizenship have no problems with the IRS unless they begin filing US tax returns. That is a very silly thing to do, and there are no negative consequences to not filing. (Don’t believe a word of what Moodys tells you on this subject.) For those who stay out of the US tax system, there is literally no situation, let alone a dangerous situation. (This true everywhere, not just in Canada.) The Canadian government will provide no assistance to help the IRS collect from Canadian citizens, in the very unlikely event that the IRS had enough information to determine that a non-compliant non-resident actually owed it money.

    If you have US assets or income sources, or are only a US citizen without Canadian citizenship, then the situation can be more difficult, and even potentially expensive if you really mess up.