See below March 9, 2016 response of new Liberal Canadian Government to January 21, 2016 FATCA questions raised by NDP Revenue Critic Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke).
Response comes from Canada Revenue Agency, Minister of National Revenue (who we are suing), Finance Canada, Stephane Dion, and Attorney General (who we are also suing).
SEE THE LINK. The text is in both english and french.
Bottom line: 1) We are still second class — our lawsuit continues; and 2) WE NEED MORE WITNESSES.
— I am amazed that the Prime Minister of Canada allowed this statement to be included in the response, asking Canadians to recognize the public interest of the United States at the expense of the sovereignty of our country:
“…we must resign ourselves to the fact that we are faced with a requirement from the United States and that the requirement corresponds to the public interest of the United States, meaning the integrity of their tax regime.”
— The OPC privacy review was passed on to CRA in January 2016 AFTER the September 2015 turnover of your bank records. In other words, Canada does the privacy assessment AFTER the turnover of private confidential data. See below statement:
“Part (aa): The CRA consulted with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner (OPC). A privacy impact assessment (PIA), which is a policy process for identifying, assessing, and mitigating privacy risks, was completed and submitted to the OPC for review on August 27, 2015. The CRA received the OPC’s recommendations on January 4, 2016 [AFTER THE TURNOVER]. The recommendations do not prevent the CRA from exchanging the required information. A response to the OPC’s recommendations is being prepared.”
Mr. Dusseault is now considering his next step. If you have follow-up questions you would like him to ask Mr. Trudeau (e.g., “…But Mr. Trudeau, what about that pre-election statement you made that Canada’s FATCA IGA legislation is insufficient to protect Canadians? What changed your mind?”) you can email him at Pierre-Luc.Dusseault@parl.gc.ca
United States Secretary of State John Kerry offers this accurate assessment of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “It’s clear that the Prime Minister has begun to make his mark on Canada’s future.”
USCitizenAbroad comments on Government response:
“The disappointment is understandable. That said, the Trudeau Government is behaving exactly as expected. The truth is the the previous Conservative Government and various opposition MPs (at least in the initial stages) did more to oppose FATCA (think Flaherty, think Murry Rankin, think Scott Brison, think Elizabeth May and others) than the Trudeau Government will ever do.
In fact, this is much worse. Not only is Mr. Trudeau NOT protecting Canadian citizens, but what he is actually doing is socializing with the Obama Government. He is being friendly to the biggest bully on the block.
Would this be an appropriate analogy to describes Mr. Trudeau’s behavior? An intruder breaks into the family home one night and attacks your teenaged daughter. Instead of protecting the daughter, the father is having a beer with the intruder. That’s Justin!!
At least the previous Prime Minister did not spend his time trying to ingratiate himself to the United States.
But, what is clear is the following …
The attitude of the Trudeau Government is that it its perfectly okay for the United States to use the IGA to claim ANY Canadian citizen that it wants, at ANY time, as the property of the United States of America. That’s the attitude of the Trudeau Government. Now, this has a historical analogy to the “slave trade” where European powers would go to other nations and say “I’ll take this one and I’ll take that one”. The time has come to stop the politically correct BS and tell it like it is.
It’s simple. U.S. citizenship is nothing but a modern day form of slavery. That’s all it is. The U.S. claims a property interest in all its citizens – their only purpose is to serve the Homeland in some way or another. Some on this blog call it “taxation based citizenship”. That’s fine, but how about “slave based citizenship”….”
@ George
I am not the only one who has benefited from the generosity of your kindness.
‘Just think of this motley crew you have become associated with!!!’
That’s the best part. Otherwise we all would have been alone. The relationships we have formed here assist each of us, and I am not immune from needing cheering up too and you always provide that, thanks.
‘I am thankful that you and Gwen are the plaintiffs as you two are the perfect plaintiffs.’
From my heart to yours, George, thanks.
Thanks, Cheryl. I needed that. Fortunately despite my normal cynical nature, I can only sustain that position for so long. With one less hour between today and tomorrow, I will put things back in perspective. I have never doubted our cause. I do sometimes doubt whether my being plaintiff is as helpful as it could be or is seen to be.
I think of all of you as being the brave ones especially when you share your individual stories.
I am an open book, you can ask me anything. But when people venture out of their shadow selves, I admire that kind of courage and I am the beneficiary of that sharing.Nothing impacts me more than the individual stories here and in the archives. I wish every lawyer had the opportunity I have been given.
@ Canadian Ginny
Please don’t let JT’s weakness make you feel any less Canadian. You and Gwen are true Canadian heroes with your courage to come forward. No politician can take that away from you. All of us owe you a great debt, win or lose in court.
I was very lucky growing up to have a special relationship with my paternal grandparents, who were proud Canadians. My grandfather (who served in the Canadian army in France 1915-1918 and was a proud veteran) encouraged me as a boy to wear red maple leaf pins on jackets etc., as he always did. And I have done that for many years, to this day. No hypocritical politician is going to take my Canadian identity away from me, and nor should he from you or any other Canadian.
We should all keep telling Trudeau, Brison, Wilson-Raybould etc.about how they are violating the Charter rights of Canadian “US Persons”, not because they might amend C-31 (they almost surely won’t), but to be a thorn in their consciences. May their consciences (if they have any) all drive them mad like Lady Macbeth, knowing that they are sacrificing the rights of their own citizens.
Mr. A your thoughtful comments really touched me thanks, and gave me pause. Especially your history with your wonderful grandparents. These are the stories I love hearing because these are what form us. I too was so very fortunate to have a incredible father who would think along your lines.
You are so right to point out to me that no politician can take away my right to be a Canadian. It is intrinsic and immutable. What was I thinking. Forgive me for my momentary lapse. I must have been channeling Lady MacBeth there for a minute. Maybe I was a failed Drama wannabe student, who went to law school instead. Some would say it’s la meme chose.
Thanks, Mr. A. And to you all.
As we set our clocks forward tonight, let us also set our best hopes forward as well.
@WhiteKat, re;
“….A reminder of that shock of awareness when we were slapped hard with the reality that we are not what we thought we were. We are not free people. The government of the country we live in, which we once thought had our backs, never did; it not only witnesses, but facilitates a foreign country’s insistence that it has the right to know the private details of Canadians’ financial lives, and the right to tax and impose complex, expensive and potentially penalty laden reporting rules on us…. ”
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/03/10/canadian-government-response-to-ndp-revenue-critic-fatca-iga-questions-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-aims-to-keep-second-class-canadian-citizens-second-class/comment-page-5/#comment-7299707
Your whole post very well said exactly how I felt when I read the Liberal statement “…” we must resign ourselves to the fact that we are faced with a requirement from the United States and that the requirement corresponds to the public interest of the United States, meaning the integrity of their tax regime.””.
We’ve known for a while that the Liberal government had shown all signs of FATCAmnesia sufficient to have conveniently (and apparently without unease, pain or strain on their consciences or ethics) picked up and now unequivocally flaunt the mantle of betrayal that the Cons created, and now as Embee so eloquently expressed in verse:
“….He’ll never want to plead our sov-reign-tee
So who the deuce will keep our country free
How we gonna keep him here on our side
Now that he’s seen DC.”
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/03/10/canadian-government-response-to-ndp-revenue-critic-fatca-iga-questions-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-aims-to-keep-second-class-canadian-citizens-second-class/comment-page-5/#comment-7298316
I totally agree with Animal about the Liberal response to NDP Revenue Critic MP Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke)’ s questions in Parliament. @Animal said “.. (reading this makes me go nuclear)…”.
Did we miss the ceremony when Trudeau and the rest of the federal Liberals swore the oath of fealty as US federal officials; “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office#Federal_Executive_and_Legislative_Branch_Oaths in order for Canada to uphold “..the public interest of the United States..”, and chain Canada to the US National debt and “their tax regime”?
Too bad we’re not softwood lumber, cause if we were, we’d get some effort “at the highest levels”:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chrystia-freeland-softwood-lumber-1.3488105
So interesting that; “Softwood lumber deal ‘central’ to Canada-U.S. relationship, Christy Clark says”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/christy-clark-softwood-lumber-us-1.3434038
but CANADIAN CITIZENS AND RESIDENTS are treated as expendable deadwood by our own Canadian government.
@Donald
Currently (!). the tax treaty does state that no assistance will be coming from Canada on collecting taxes on income generated while the “victim” was a Canadian citizen.
“8. No assistance shall be provided under this Article for a revenue claim in respect of a taxpayer to the extent that the taxpayer can demonstrate that:
(a) where the taxpayer is an individual, the revenue claim relates to a taxable period in which the taxpayer was a citizen of the requested State, and
That could change, given that our feeble new PM seems to have a love affair with America now that they’ve thrown a dinner for him. The duplicity of Trudeau et al on FATCA is astounding. I e-mailed Brison asking him how he could even look at himself in the mirror given his post-election behaviour on FATCA.
Perhaps an NDP MP would resubmit MP Brison’s Parliamentary questions (Q-127 2 — October 28, 2013 — Mr. Brison (Kings—Hants) http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/29/new-fatca-written-questions-from-liberal-mp-scott-brison/comment-page-1/ to the current Liberal government – and see if the Trudeau government is more forthcoming with the information he sought from the Cons. While the NDP is at it, they should resubmit the Parliamentary questions that Liberal MP Ted Hsu asked as well (Question 121 in the Canadian Parliament on October 25, 2013) , since the Cons wouldn’t answer most of them http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/28/ted-hsu-mp-looking-for-answers-on-fatca/ . Presumably the Liberals now have access to the information they didn’t have the power to pry out of the Cons.
So, if the questions were good (which they were) when first posed by Liberal MPs, they should be just as relevant, and find the Liberals happy to provide full and frank answers now that they’re the ones in power.
‘Did we miss the ceremony when Trudeau and the rest of the federal Liberals swore the oath of fealty as US federal officials; “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, […]”‘
They’ve already sworn to join the US government in overthrowing the Constitution of the United States. After all, Congress has spoken more loudly than those scraps of dead trees.
@Canadian Ginny, take heart.
Back in 2011 we could hardly dare to imagine where we are today. I know it doesn’t look like progress sometimes, because it shouldn’t take this lawsuit to get the Liberals to do the right thing – which we know they have the power to do – to change what they themselves acknowledged was wrong, and put right what the Cons did. Apparently they lack the gonads or the backbone or the ethical conviction, and are choosing what they see as most politically expedient, but the last song has not been sung, and the last word has not been written. And we are not alone. We are now part of a network, have amassed data, support, a lawsuit, a legal team, much more awareness, and knowledge. We are not going away.
I think the Trudeau government and the US should be more wary – they grossly underestimate the size of the resentment, anger and resistance they’ve created – which is not going to disappear. It will have repercussions for the Liberals in Canada.
It may have been slow, but I think we’ll see more FATCA pushback coming in the EU as well – the development in France is a start, which an EU MEP is now following https://twitter.com/SophieintVeld/status/707637562236641280 .
@badger
With every bank account closure and OMG moment our “network” grows. We have yet to reach critical mass.
I wonder if there’s any way to perhaps coordinate a campaign to “overwhelm” all of the involved Liberals with their previous statements on FATCA in order to highlight their silent endorsement…
I wish we had the money to take out a full page ad in the Globe &Mail for example not admonishing the conservatives or liberals but to “educate” Canadian citizens with U.S. Contamination of their risk; pointing the various ways of being considered a U.S. person for tax purposes and pointing out the serious consequences of this U.S. Extra-territorial action and tha at they must figure out how to deal with this on their own as the Government of Canada is unwilling to protect them and is indeed facilitating the U.S. Maybe include some quotes???
Might this not gain us some publicity and interest?
@ICB
That’s the very tactic Lynn used at the Finance meeting – after I suggested we use the Conservative’s very own words against themselves.
“A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian” is strictly a political phrase. Its legal standing will need to be established in court – SURGITE!
@Cheryl – Do you (or anyone out there) have any idea how much such an ad would cost?
I don’t know.
http://globelink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Globe-Newspaper-National-MediaKit-Q1-2016.pdf. Cheryl.
Thanks @animal11970. If I read it right…it’s lots of money. Too bad.
@Cheryl
A G&M ad may be lots of money, but given our frustration with the lack of media coverage (or at least accurate coverage), and the government ignoring us, might Brockers (who have now raised sufficient funds for the court case) not be interested/willing to continue fund raising for some good – – and accurate – – coverage of this issue, especially given the number of “US Persons” (and their spouses, etc) affected and the possibility of getting more people aware of the situation and aware of/involved with IBS and the court challenge and letting them know that they are not alone in this? If we could raise the funds, wouldn’t it be useful to place a well-worded and “visualed” ad in a major newspaper to tell all Canadians the truth about FATCA and the cost of the IGA to everyone, and maybe get more supporters? (Sorry this has such long sentences but it is just past midnight and the brain is not working as well as it normally does)…..
@LM It looks like half page adds are $10,000 plus but full page are $$40,000 range? A half page would probably be good but it would have to be clearly written, not rabid and come across as trying to help U.S. contaminated Canadians. Of course, the Canadian Government part in seeking us out and sending off our detailed data would also have to be clear.
I don’t know if there would be enough interested in paying up. I guess we’ll see from the response. Maybe it could be an IBS ad?
Cheryl, a newspaper ad is an excellent idea! It has been tossed about before, but no one ever followed up on it.
ooops….newspaper AD.
I’m trying to find information on public service announcements in Canada, but can’t find much. I’ve read that with the CBC you would need to be a registered charity or non-profit, but can’t find any criteria for newspapers. Something to look into, as PSA’s are free.
How about a little inspiration from these early slavery abolitionists? (Upper Canada gets a mention):
http://www.upworthy.com/this-1846-pamphlet-wants-your-kids-to-explain-to-you-why-slavery-is-wrong?c=upw1
RE: a national ad
Yes it could be done but one problem is not knowing if there is any return … some bang for the bucks, so to speak. I did a local newspaper ad (cost $400) a few years ago (pre FATCA IGA) but had no way to know if anyone cared or even read it. I don’t regret doing it though because I really wanted to make sure I’d done something to alert at least a few thousand people about FATCA. My ad was titled: “Urgent Warning” … USA to Invade Canada — AGAIN!”
https://openparliament.ca/committees/finance/41-2/32/scott-brison-16/
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Kings—Hants, NS
Has the government sought and received an opinion from the Privacy Commissioner regarding the sharing of personal information with the U.S. government or the IRS?
4:55 p.m.
General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Brian Ernewein
Is your question, again, about what they’ve been doing for the past 50 years?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Kings—Hants, NS
Has the government sought an opinion from the Privacy Commissioner in terms of sharing this information?
4:55 p.m.
General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Brian Ernewein
I don’t believe so. As I say, it’s been going on for a long time.