See below March 9, 2016 response of new Liberal Canadian Government to January 21, 2016 FATCA questions raised by NDP Revenue Critic Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke).
Response comes from Canada Revenue Agency, Minister of National Revenue (who we are suing), Finance Canada, Stephane Dion, and Attorney General (who we are also suing).
SEE THE LINK. The text is in both english and french.
Bottom line: 1) We are still second class — our lawsuit continues; and 2) WE NEED MORE WITNESSES.
— I am amazed that the Prime Minister of Canada allowed this statement to be included in the response, asking Canadians to recognize the public interest of the United States at the expense of the sovereignty of our country:
“…we must resign ourselves to the fact that we are faced with a requirement from the United States and that the requirement corresponds to the public interest of the United States, meaning the integrity of their tax regime.”
— The OPC privacy review was passed on to CRA in January 2016 AFTER the September 2015 turnover of your bank records. In other words, Canada does the privacy assessment AFTER the turnover of private confidential data. See below statement:
“Part (aa): The CRA consulted with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner (OPC). A privacy impact assessment (PIA), which is a policy process for identifying, assessing, and mitigating privacy risks, was completed and submitted to the OPC for review on August 27, 2015. The CRA received the OPC’s recommendations on January 4, 2016 [AFTER THE TURNOVER]. The recommendations do not prevent the CRA from exchanging the required information. A response to the OPC’s recommendations is being prepared.”
Mr. Dusseault is now considering his next step. If you have follow-up questions you would like him to ask Mr. Trudeau (e.g., “…But Mr. Trudeau, what about that pre-election statement you made that Canada’s FATCA IGA legislation is insufficient to protect Canadians? What changed your mind?”) you can email him at Pierre-Luc.Dusseault@parl.gc.ca
United States Secretary of State John Kerry offers this accurate assessment of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “It’s clear that the Prime Minister has begun to make his mark on Canada’s future.”
USCitizenAbroad comments on Government response:
“The disappointment is understandable. That said, the Trudeau Government is behaving exactly as expected. The truth is the the previous Conservative Government and various opposition MPs (at least in the initial stages) did more to oppose FATCA (think Flaherty, think Murry Rankin, think Scott Brison, think Elizabeth May and others) than the Trudeau Government will ever do.
In fact, this is much worse. Not only is Mr. Trudeau NOT protecting Canadian citizens, but what he is actually doing is socializing with the Obama Government. He is being friendly to the biggest bully on the block.
Would this be an appropriate analogy to describes Mr. Trudeau’s behavior? An intruder breaks into the family home one night and attacks your teenaged daughter. Instead of protecting the daughter, the father is having a beer with the intruder. That’s Justin!!
At least the previous Prime Minister did not spend his time trying to ingratiate himself to the United States.
But, what is clear is the following …
The attitude of the Trudeau Government is that it its perfectly okay for the United States to use the IGA to claim ANY Canadian citizen that it wants, at ANY time, as the property of the United States of America. That’s the attitude of the Trudeau Government. Now, this has a historical analogy to the “slave trade” where European powers would go to other nations and say “I’ll take this one and I’ll take that one”. The time has come to stop the politically correct BS and tell it like it is.
It’s simple. U.S. citizenship is nothing but a modern day form of slavery. That’s all it is. The U.S. claims a property interest in all its citizens – their only purpose is to serve the Homeland in some way or another. Some on this blog call it “taxation based citizenship”. That’s fine, but how about “slave based citizenship”….”
@calgary411
Junior has been giving his marching orders from the President & Congress for Canada…. how long does it take to say…. yes, sir…. yes, sir… hence why the meeting ended early…
Maybe the next time that Quebec votes to separate…. I will throw in my vote for that… since Canada does not think I am good enough to protect… how much worse can it be????
I am disappointed too, but frankly this outcome was more or less predictable, given that the Government of Canada is continuing the defence in our lawsuit.
RE Item e) “Cost for the CRA to compile the records for transfer was $2,520”, based upon the time required and the pay scale of the individual.
I find this quite disingenuous. As far as I can tell, the lowest pay for a clerical employee of the federal government is about $19/hour. At that rate, compiling the data took some 133 hours, or about one month. Presumably the individual (if there was only one) was working at a higher pay scale than that. It means that the cost reported was limited to the clerical time in compilation but could not have included time for:
– developing protocols
– communicating with financial institutions
– programming
– etc.
Barack Obama says “What’s not to like” about Justin.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-obama-state-visit-washington-1.3483545
Wait! Is this the the same “right values, enormous energy and passion” Liberal government that is NOT engaging Canadian citizens in solving their FATCA problems? .
A Hypocrite is a Hypocrite is a Hypocrite.
My response to the article:
Harper sold out Canada with FATCA, now Justin is continuing the legacy by continuing to pander to Obama with this visit while trying to snow over the Canadian public with “A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian”.
Good one, Justin, tell that to the 1M+ Canadians who have to deal with the US’s extra-territorial taxation of them and their Canadian families because of the stench of US birth. This doesn’t only extend to Canadians of American birth but also to Canadians of Canadian birthplace who have a parent who has an American birthplace.
A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian, are they. Mr. Trudeau, I call BS
The only solution to this is to lift the middle finger to the United States and tell them; you want us, you cross the border and come get us.
The Americans can go f**k themselves. And I’m not lifting one finger to help the IRS in their search.
I on the other hand will go about my daily business working to better my wife’s and children’s life. And the United States can go kiss my…@$$.
@NorthernShtike
The cost to those whose records were turned over is what the government’s going to hear about.
@Bubbles…..mea culpa mea culpa……on numerous threads I have been meaning to thank you here there and everywhere for your absolute dilgennce in this battle.
So here it goes…Thank you. 🙂
A possible follow up question for Mr. Dusseault to pose to the Liberals-in-hiding: If FATCA is, indeed, operating under the long standing tradition of information sharing between nations, can you clarify how much data was transferred in the reverse direction–from the USA to Canada–on or about 9/30/2015 that wouldn’t have been transferred under the pre-existing income tax treaty? Is there any information “sharing” going on here or is this really just a one way coercive grab for data by the US government?
I’ve lived in the USA for 29 years and never once have I been asked “are you now or have you ever been a Canadian person?”
It could be a symbolic burning. Easy enough to scan the outside of a “blue book”, print on heavy paper and fill with a few blank pages. If even a hundred people participated in front of the U.S. Embassy Ottaw. I think it would garner significant attention?
By the way, the questions that SHOULD have been asked were, “How much has FATCA compliance and reporting cost the Canadian banking, investment and life insurance industries to-date, how much will it cost them every year going forward and precisely how do they plan to recoup those costs?” THAT might have attracted some attention.
Who would be able to tell just what was burning? It’s the idea that would count and probably draw more media attention than anything we could ever send out…….
So, what does this response mean then?… Is the court case still going ahead? What do we do next? Is there any politician in Canada that we can rally behind and who will go very public for us? What about Elizabeth May? We can’t roll over, we have to continue to fight this oppression.
to continue from my previous note, is the NDP Revenue Critic Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke) willing to continue to help? What can we do to tell him we appreciate his work and to ask him to continue his assault? (will he? would he?) I am prepared to contact him… should others too?
Actually we should stand in front of Parliament and burn Canadian passports!!! It’s the Canadian Government that we are fighting!!!!
Yes, the court case will still go ahead. WE NEED, THOUGH, MORE WITNESSES TO COME FORWARD. Doesn’t this response inspire some others to have their voice heard?
In the post, Stephen says and gives Mr. Dusseault’s email address. Any of us can sent our individual thanks and questions on our mind. I will do so as a Canadian citizen whose family has been assaulted by US extra-territorality enabled by the IGA that implements FATCA in this country.
No need to thank me, George, but I appreciate it nonetheless. You’re welcome. I’m getting tired though. I’m tired of what feels like one step forward and two steps back. I’m tired of being angry and depressed, but every turn seems to put on another layer. I don’t think I can be angrier or more depressed – but I have seen how others do and have suffered the destruction of both. I’m afraid any more anger and depression on my part will be self-destructive and counterproductive. Time for others to step up – unfortunately our government has seen to it that there will be plenty more to join in.
Interesting how the testimony given the next day, by Ms. Bernier does, imho, raise issues of privacy particularly with regard to over-reporting.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6601885&Language=E&Mode=1
@15:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8NjUpngfxE&t=12m50s
Not serious about the Canadian passport thing. Obviously not a good idea.
In other words the recent liberal response is incomplete & pure spin.
Havent posted in a while, but thought I’d share that the following has just been sent:
To the Honorable Pierre-Luc Dusseault,
First and foremost, I want to thank you for your extensive efforts to obtain further information from the current government on the background and current details regarding the FATCA Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA). It is hoped that there soon will be complete answers provided for all your recent questions.
Further questions could be raised to the CRA and Office of the Privacy Commissioner to inquire
(1) In what manner the final IGA avoids the excessive collection of information and sufficiently protects citizens from undue intrusion on their privacy (as mentioned in the recent response from Finance Canada). Also, how does the current IGA protect the security of information once it has been collected, especially given that it is being sent to a foreign country (where Canada has no legal oversight) which holds as it’s right the possibility of within-country sharing such information with various other government investigative branches?
(2) The IGA includes suggested promises of reciprocal information coming back to the CRA. To date, what information of this sort has been supplied from the IRS back to the CRA? Is there any more financial detail being provided than what has been transferred to Canada in the past? Certainly what Canada is supplying to the IRS (at full cost to the Canadian government – – that is, the Canadian taxpayer) is, as I’m sure you realize, massively more intrusively detailed than prior to FATCA and the IGA. In other words, what level of reciprocity are we, in fact, receiving and is this added information sufficient to outweigh the price that Canada – – and it’s citizens – – are paying (financially and legally/ethically). And how much added tax revenues will this information be providing to Canada? [NOTE: any new financial information exchanged from the US is NOT LEGAL given that there has been no authorization from Congress]
Lastly, you may have received the following information from others but, just in case you have not, here is a link to a very recent report from France about the establishment of a commission to examine the US extraterritorial overreach by the US Government effecting citizens and businesses in France (particularly in relation to the US imposing sanctions and penalties in respect of events occurring outside US territory, and the IRS pursuit of French citizen “Accidental Americans” through FATCA ). http://www2.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/missions-d-information/missions-d-information-communes/mission-d-information-commune-sur-l-extraterritorialite-de-certaines-lois-des-etats-unis/a-la-une/reunion-constitutive-du-mercredi-2-mars-2016
(3) How can the current Liberal Government justify new refugees in Canada having more protection and rights to privacy than one million Canadian Citizens and longstanding permanent residents who, not by their choice, happen to have been born in the US and, now (under US laws) are being held (with Canada’s support) as life-long tax-slaves? What has happened to “A Canadian is a Canadian” and full respect for and judicial deference to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
Again, your continued support is deeply appreciated.
Here’s something else Mr Dusseault should follow up on.
Now that Chantal Bernier is gone the new Privacy Commissioner, Daniel Therrien, should be asked to follow up on her concerns that “all the measures required to avoid the excessive collection of information will be implemented, as well as all the measures required to protect the security of the information once it has been collected.”
Bernier “thinks” that the “regime we have developed is proportional” to preserve the integrity of the US’s tax regime – but that was just HER opinion, and as I stated above, she still had other outstanding concerns when she left office.
Excellent email to the Honorable Pierre-Luc Dusseault, LM. Thanks.
@Bubblebustin –
You are absolutely right! Please send this point to Mr. Dusseault (Pierre-Luc.Dusseault@parl.gc.ca) and to Mr. Therrien ASAP.
BTW, since I have not commented in a few weeks, I definitely want to add my deepest thanks to Stephen and, especially, the unnamed US donor who finished the lawsuit funding.
The disappointment is understandable. That said, the Trudeau Government is behaving exactly as expected. The truth is the the previous Conservative Government and various opposition MPs (at least in the initial stages) did more to oppose FATCA (think Flaherty, think Murry Rankin, think Scott Brison, think Elizabeth May and others) than the Trudeau Government will ever do.
In fact, this is much worse. Not only is Mr. Trudeau NOT protecting Canadian citizens, but what he is actually doing is socializing with the Obama Government. He is being friendly to the biggest bully on the block.
Would this be an appropriate analogy to describes Mr. Trudeau’s behavior? An intruder breaks into the family home one night and attacks your teenaged daughter. Instead of protecting the daughter, the father is having a beer with the intruder. That’s Justin!!
At least the previous Prime Minister did not spend his time trying to ingratiate himself to the United States.
But, what is clear is the following …
The attitude of the Trudeau Government is that it its perfectly okay for the United States to use the IGA to claim ANY Canadian citizen that it wants, at ANY time, as the property of the United States of America. That’s the attitude of the Trudeau Government. Now, this has a historical analogy to the “slave trade” where European powers would go to other nations and say “I’ll take this one and I’ll take that one”. The time has come to stop the politically correct BS and tell it like it is.
It’s simple. U.S. citizenship is nothing but a modern day form of slavery. That’s all it is. The U.S. claims a property interest in all its citizens – their only purpose is to serve the Homeland in some way or another. Some on this blog call it “taxation based citizenship”. That’s fine, but how about “slave based citizenship”.
Now, if you agree that U.S. citizenship is nothing but a form of slavery, then I’m curious what you think about the following idea.
If you agree that:
1. The United States uses its slaves in Canada as a weapon to suck resources from the Canadian economy (let’s make this an economic issue and NOT a human rights issue), then it is NOT in the interests of Canada (or any other country) to have U.S. citizens in Canada. (Think capital gains on sale of Canadian house going to the U.S. Treasury.)
2. There are two kinds of U.S. citizens in Canada. (A) those who are U.S. citizens only and (B) those who are Canadian citizens.
3. Regardless of whether it is type (A) or type (B) U.S. citizen, Canada cannot assume the damage to Canada that their presence implies.
4. Therefore Canada is faced with the problem of removing all U.S. citizens from Canada.
5. Those who are Type A can simply be deported.
6. The interesting question is what to do with the Type B U.S. citizens (those who are also Canadian citizens). With respect to the Type B U.S. citizens, I believe that it would make economic sense for both Canada and the United States, for Canada to simply purchase those U.S. citizens who are also Canadian citizens. The U.S. would receive a lump sum payment for each one of them. Canada would save money because they no longer be used for the purpose of transferring Canadian capital to the United States.
The final question is:
What should be the amount that Canada should offer to purchase the Type B U.S. citizens from the United States. Perhaps, Justin can discuss that with Barack this week.
What do you think? How much per head?
The Government is just fobbing off people pure and simple. It’s really only a step up from silence.