16 thoughts on “New instructions to book Canada appointments to relinquish or renounce US citizenship”

1. Is there a “grace period” where dual US children can relinquish or renounce WITHOUT FEE within 6 months of their 18th birthdays? (They were born in the US and have social security numbers so our children are definitely of US taint). Thank you.

2. Regarding DS-4079: it’s truly a horrible form in my opinion. The worst thing about it is the question about whether you’ve ever registered a child at a consulate/embassy. Maybe that information doesn’t get passed to the IRS right now, but with the IRS, there’s always tomorrow.

3. @MomofMinorDuals — my recollection is that the 18 1/2 rule was to exempt those born dual from the exit tax. I am not aware of any exemption from the $2350 “administrative” fee. (I’m sure someone here will correct me if my recollection is wrong).

   @iota – re 4079 – it’s purpose is to find intent to remain a US citizen where there was a prior relinquishment. As noted in the link above:

   (Interestingly, at least for the moment, Canada seems to continue to require Form 4079 an issue that I have discussed here.)

   this form doesn’t really make sense for current renunciations. I wonder if you can omit the form (or respond to the questions that the answer is not relevant to your current case for renunciation).

4. “While you may choose to seek legal advice in preparing your forms, attorneys are not permitted to accompany an applicant to the Consulate.”

   Guess the compliance condors selling their services won’t like that.
   Oh they mourn the recent good old days when they tried to milk us every way they could, including trying to sell us on having “a U.S. trained and licensed attorney accompany them for the interview. If properly admitted, U.S. legal counsel may accompany the renouncing individual to the hearing. The presence of competent and qualified legal counsel can provide a great deal of comfort to what can be an intense, emotional event.”

5. @Karen – That’s what I thought – it’s not needed for a renunciation so what the heck do they mean when they say it might be “useful”?

   After a lot of searching, fortunately I was able to find a Consulate which didn’t require it. (Amsterdam).

   ” I wonder if you can omit the form (or respond to the questions that the answer is not relevant to your current case for renunciation).”

   That’s a good idea.

6. MomofMinorDuals,

   As far as I can tell, everyone has to pay the US$2,350 renunciation or claim of relinquishment fee. The 18 to 18-1/2 time period has to do, again, with not being subject to the exit tax. http://hodgen.com/expatriation-between-age-18-and-18-12/.

   Does anyone else have further information regarding this often-mentioned time period for young persons expatriating?

7. I renounced at the Montreal consulate in December. They did ask for form 4079 in their initial email, but when I pointed out the recent changes in 7 FAM 1264 and asked if I could complete the process without the form based on that, they said that it was “not mandatory”. I had my appointment and I already received my CLN (!), so it is definitely possible without it.

8. Sounds as long as you satisfy “form nation” of the requisite forms and present them at your designated appointment, you’ll no longer need another appointment. Does all this streamlining mean they’re going to decrease the fee? (Sarcasm).

9. @MomofMinorDuals

   As others have already stated, your kids will have to pay the $2350 but won’t have to deal with an exit tax. The other compelling reason it’s best for them to do it young is because they won’t have to file taxes (as long as annual income is below $10,300 during the preceding five years) or FBARs (as long as the aggregate total of each kid’s bank account(s) does not exceed $10,000). That means avoiding a ton of complicated paperwork.

   I would start saving the funds for the application fee in cash in an old-fashioned piggy bank. Call it the ‘freedom 18’ plan 😉

10. Thanks to all who responded. WestCoaster, my savings funds are to be directed toward college costs. I am seriously considering “charging” the fee–and only this fee–to an American credit card with no forwarding address…

11. FYI the automatic return reply email I received today from CanadaCLNInquiries@state.gov does NOT include any mention whatsoever of DS-4079.

    I’ve prepared so many draft versions that I was quite surprised and unprepared for the complete absence of DS-4079.

12. @ Rebecca,

    Thanks for this news. Good to hear.

    Some background on the (welcome) flip-flop. Dept of State didn’t require 4079 renunciations but didn’t forbid it either, although its use became more strongly discouraged in 2014. It was in widespread use in Canada, with some exception — I recall Calgary didn’t for a while (prior to them coordinating procedure of all the consulates in Canada in early 2016).

    Really irrelevant for renunciation, and lengthy to fill out, so I’m glad they’ve finally axed it in Canada.

    Sorry that you’ve worked on preparing yours, good you won’t have to work on a final draft, though – one less thing to do. Thanks for the heads-up.

    7 FAM 1264 pre-2014.08:

    ” While Form DS-4079, Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship, is not standard for renunciation cases, where there is a question about intent it may prove useful.”

    Current 7 FAM 1264 :

    “While Form DS-4079, Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship, is not standard or typically necessary for renunciation cases, where there is a question about intent it may prove useful. Further, the DS-4079 may serve as a helpful tool for information gathering in appropriate cases regarding, for example, ties to the United States and the host country, or possible earlier commission of an expatriating act. In short, consular officers should not seek completion and signature of the DS-4079 in renunciation cases as a matter of routine but only if pertinent as described above.”

13. Very good news. Thanks, Rebecca.

14. The questionnaire that must be attached to a request for a renouncement appointment,,,allows you to specify more that one consul location. I haven’t been able to get information on wait-times at the various locations. I sent an e-mail asking for this information to Halifax-ACS@state.gov — no response. Calling the local (Halifax) consular telephone number results in a merry-go-round of instructions; I wasn’t able to leave a voice message. Anyone know about wait-times, especially for Halifax, Montreal, Toronto?

15. Vancouver appears to be about 10 weeks. Halifax has always been better than Vancouver and Toronto.

16. P.S. 4079 is no longer required.