Justin Trudeau, King of Canada, has issued his first edict: the reinstatement of the long census form. Minister in charge of Canadian census Navdeep Singh Bains, will jail people who refuse to divulge personal information required by the long census form:
[The Liberal government] didn’t provide details on how it plans to make sure that people actually fill it out, although Navdeep Bains, the minister of innovation, science and economic development, said “the law is the law” and the Statistics Act hasn’t changed, which suggests penalties would include jail time. Bains said restoring the long form will mean a return to solid, high-quality data.
It seems lost on Bains that saying that “the law is the law” does not make any particular action of the government morally right. Putting old ladies in jail because they refuse to fill out a form is disproportionate to the alleged crime. That it is an invasion of privacy and a violation of universal human rights makes it all the more despicable. But the new Trudeau government seems to be carrying on the tradition of the elder Trudeau’s attitude towards law, as we discussed earlier (see, Burning down barns is not wrong because it is illegal; it is illegal because it is wrong).
In the past, the government found one woman guilty of refusing to fill out the long census form. She was 79-years old. I have seen how government persecution of senior citizens can lead to fear and sometimes premature death, as in the case of friend of the Isaac Brock Society Mark Pinetree, who lived out his final years in fear of the IRS. He was a psychiatrist who had moved back to Brazil after becoming a US citizenship, not realizing that the IRS would persecute him even though he no longer lived in the USA.
In any case, if we were hoping that the government of Trudeau the Younger would respect the privacy rights of citizens of Canada, we now have tangible evidence that the new King doesn’t really believe in privacy. This bodes ill for those hoping for the repeal of the FATCA IGA.
Calm down, please, people. Before Harper abolished it, the mandatory census had a long and useful history as a tool for planning the allocation of government services. I believe its reinstatement is adequately protected by legislation, as Jon said. Putting people in prison for refusing to fill the form is very much the exception. If anyone can cite and document reliable statistics on that, I will be happy to stand corrected. Now that the government has reinstated it, I’m sure Statistics Canada will do all that is required to keep the information for specific people private. Otherwise there would certainly be an outcry to have it abolished again.
If I receive the long form census, I will be happy to fill it out as part of my duties as a citizen.
I still mainly trust the Government of Canada, more so with the new government than with the previous one.
The purpose of prosecuting 79 year old women with extortionate fines and prison sentences is to create fear and conformity with the law. Tyranical governments just make examples of people: disproportionate punishments of a few will bring the rest into line.
A just government punishes according to the severity of a crime. Tyrants punish disproportionately in order to create examples so that others will obey. Proportionate punishment is a fundamental principle of justice.
There is no possible way to go after every single objector so just go after a few old ladies that refuse–and punish them out of proportion to the crime, and the rest will obey out of fear. This is a sign of tyranny. But it is hardly anything new.
But I hope it is evident that putting people in prison for not filling out the long form census is not proportionate.
I talked to a single mum who says she won’t fill it out. Another friend who sees himself as working class poor says that he will shred the long form consensus if he even has a fixed address when and if they make him fill it out.
Maybe dissidents seek me out or something. I do not think so. I think rather that the long form census form is invasive. I certainly felt that way when I read through the questions.
So perhaps I should just lie. I heard a comedian who said that when he was in elementary school the teacher made them raise one or two fingers when they asked to go to the washroom. He was embarrassed so he put up the wrong finger and the teacher could never figure out why he took so long for #1 and so short for #2.
The “rule of law” does not allow but rather requires that governments create just laws. This is in recognition that certain laws are higher than others. In this area, natural law in my opinion, those laws which nature or God establish, are higher than positive law, those laws which human beings legislate. This is why ADCS exists: to sue the government over an unjust law that violates the rule of law–and we hope that the courts in Canada will agree with our side and thus uphold the rule of law.
“I would not suggest that those who write letters address his highness as king either. ”
Of course you wouldn’t.
People who may be able to help us who either are part of, or associated with our new Liberal government, may be reading here. No matter how non-sociopathic or committed to doing their jobs ethically that they may be, we risk leaving a bad impression of what our grass roots movement is all about if we jump all over them showing them how bad they are, just as they are leaving the gate.
Unless I misunderstood, CBC radio said that ALL census forms will be the long form going forward…
Take a pill.
From CBC online: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-liberal-census-data-1.3305271
http://www.desmog.ca/2015/11/05/liberals-just-restored-canada-s-long-form-census-here-s-why-matters
But sometimes the survey data is useful. Especially the Statistics Canada data showing that back in 2006 that over 40% of U.S.-born Canadian residents considered themselves to be solely Canadian. It’s no longer on their website, but it is the only piece of data anywhere showing that U.S.-born people weren’t necessarily thinking of themselves as U.S. citizens even before FATCA. Or the data showing that U.S.-born Canadians left the U.S. when they were really too young to owe the U.S. anything and don’t fit the “expat” stereotype at all.
Before someone hearts the return of the Long Form Census too much, they might consider these questions asked on the last one available (2006) and the possible consequences of revealing their link(s) to the USA.
Questions from the Long Form 2006
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb-bmdi/pub/instrument/3901_Q2_V3-eng.pdf
(9) Where was this person born?
Specify one response only, according to present boundaries.
(10) Of what country is this person a citizen?
Indicate more than one citizenship, if applicable.
(11) Is this person now, or has this person ever been, a landed immigrant?
A “landed immigrant” (permanent resident) is a person who has been granted the right to live in Canada permanently by immigration authorities.
(12) in what year did this person first become a landed immigrant?
(25) Where was each of this person’s parents born?
(a) Father
(b) Mother
And also consider that this Canadian census was outsourced to a U.S. company which according to the U.S. Patriot Act must hand over to DHS any data it has access to.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/canada-s-census-outsourced-to-lockheed-martin/2242
Peter you can be better than this. There is very widespread bipartisan opinion that the long form census is invaluable for policy decisions.
To transfer your distaste of politicians and government so quickly from Harper to Trudeau and to mock our very popular new Prime Minister by calling him ‘King ‘ doesn’t help your ( our) cause one little bit.
@EmBee, Well, I think you would have written a better and more chilling post on this subject than I did. I wonder what Snowden would have to say about Lockheed Martin’s data harvesting abilities with regard to the Canadian census.
@DukeofDevon, mostly elitist academic folks say this data is necessary. I do not suppose it is really necessary anymore than I believe that the Stasi apparatus of the state is necessary.
Bipartisan is a very odd word to use. I wonder which two parties you could mean? I for one belong to no political party.
I see no evidence that Canada is getting better just because some elitist says he is going to make it better. I think it is important not to see the world through the rose coloured glasses suggested by a young handsome and popular prince who has become quasi-king and now can issue edicts.
“And also consider that this Canadian census was outsourced to a U.S. company which according to the U.S. Patriot Act must hand over to DHS any data it has access to.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/canada-s-census-outsourced-to-lockheed-martin/2242”
No problem. Parliament has spoken:
‘The statistics act addresses privacy concerns:
Information is privileged
18. (1) Except for the purposes of a prosecution under this Act, any return made to Statistics Canada pursuant to this Act and any copy of the return in the possession of the respondent is privileged and shall not be used as evidence in any proceedings whatever.
(2) No person sworn under section 6 shall by an order of any court, tribunal or other body be required in any proceedings whatever to give oral testimony or to produce any return, document or record with respect to any information obtained in the course of administering this Act.’
Since Canada obeys US law, the US will obey Canadian law, right? Right?
IBM used to advertise how their powerful, useful machines helped governments execute orders based on ethnicity of their citizens, in Germany and the US. Of course Canada did the same to Canadians as the US did to Americans depending on their ancestry, but I haven’t seen if IBM advertised the use of their machines in Canada.
The law is the law. The constitution is the constitution. These brave entities protect citizens, whenever and wherever a government finds it convenient for some reason that they want to obey a law or constitution at that particular time.
Petros. You find Canada’s government to be ‘tyrannical’ . Would that be like Egypt or Saudi Arabia? How about Russia, all of the ‘Stans, or maybe China? Would you compare us to Singapore, India, or Myanmar?
How about your former Homeland?
You call Mr. Trudeau elitist. Many Canadians, both old and new stock, see him as a breath of fresh air and are thrilled with his cabinet selections. Give us a break. As I said, you do us a disservice.
Tyrannical governments legislate prison sentences and severe fines for form crimes. The purpose of excessive fines and prison sentences for crimes of refusal to violate one’s own privacy is to make an example of the person so that others come into line. I do not see how comparing one form of tyranny to others around the world belies my point: Is it a fundamental principle of justice for the punishment to fit the crime or not?
As for being thrilled with cabinet appointments and breathing Justin’s royal fresh air, please spare me.
The sociopaths in DC decided that since nobody was paying attention to FBAR that they would up the fines to 300% of a person’s financial wealth, and now there are excessive fines discussions on the internet about FBAR. The thing is if you are a US resident actually trying to hide money in an offshore account (i.e., you have mens rea), then the fine is excessive. To threaten grandmothers in Canada with 300% fines is an act of sociopaths.
“And also consider that this Canadian census was outsourced to a U.S. company which according to the U.S. Patriot Act must hand over to DHS any data it has access to.”
How much stupider was it to use Pay Pal as a donation destination.
You have at most several hundred donors.
It was done voluntary
Which is easier get a list of several hundred donors from Paypal or doing a computer question search of 10 of millions census forum
Paypal has SIN number or other local tax ID number and bank account information
Donating to paypal will lose your defense to IRS ,that I did not know about FBAR and that I had to do USA taxes
The Canadian Government can demand that US company doing census keep records confidential. Pay Pal is a USA only financial company that is supposed to monitor FATCA and money laundering.
Worst headline ever! for God’s sake, they’ve only been in office for a week and just because Prime Minister Trudeau is young and handsome doesn’t mean he’s arrogant. That belongs to King Harper if you will.
Quote: “It didn’t provide details on how it plans to make sure that people actually fill it out” So there is no evidence yet that they will maintain the same law or change the penalty.
@Goerge trois
Canadian gov’t can demand privacy from any firm within the 4 corners of Canada & legally make them keep it…. if data leaves Canadian soil… data is at the mercy of foreign gov’ts…. I don’t understand why Canada needs to send any kind of data to be processed or stored out of Canada… I am pretty sure there are firms that can process info and store data in Canada…
Also, is it your intention to derail funding by saying over & over about Paypal… they will not chase anyone down for the amounts being donated… I worry more about a data hack… that can & will ruin your life…. Good luck in getting any help from any gov’t when that happens… no one will take responsibility if that happens…. I have a family member who is still trying to dig out of that situation… over 5 yrs later…
“Also, is it your intention to derail funding by saying over & over about Paypal… they will not chase anyone down for the amounts being donated… I worry more about a data hack… that can & will ruin your life…. Good luck in getting any help from any gov’t when that happens… no one will take responsibility if that happens…. I have a family member who is still trying to dig out of that situation… over 5 yrs later…”
People can donate with interac, Canadian cheques and these are confidential Canadian companies. It is not donation it is the fact that could see your US connections.
Also any USA companies that bring Canadian ID stuff over the border and vioaltes Canadian law by giving it over would face sanction IN Canadian and casn kiss away any chance of doing buisness in Canada.
As I already said it a very simple manner to get a list of Paypal donors with birth date SIN and bank information, It takes a lot more computer effort to go through the answer of several million census forms.
Also using Paypal messes up your argument for FATCA privacy.
You are correct that Paypal is open to private hacking.
You should never get verified give bank, SIN info to them.
For unverified accounts
You should never leave your credit card info on that sight.
@George 3
I understand where u are coming from… but not all donors are in Canada… hopefully… world wide… since the donation has not gone up much… I really don’t know too much about all these electronic payment systems…. Thank u for sharing your knowledge… I usually ask someone to take care of it for me… I don’t trust electronic anything… At this stage of life… I am surprised by how much I distrust any gov’t… new or old gov’t… same crap… a different day…
So far the criticisms of this post have not consisted of saying that the required long form census does not require a citizens to violate their own privacy rights but that
(1) The government’s invasion of privacy is necessary to gather quality data so as to be able to operate the modern state.
Furthermore,
(2) Petros’ mocking of Trudeau is an unfair disservice to our cause.
I am still trying to get over the sociopathic need of the government to know intimate details of our lives which nature gives us a right to withhold from everyone including the government. See, Privacy, says who?
I cited above Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.”
The question is what does “arbitrary interference” mean. In the history of the right to privacy, arbitrary means without a warrant. So that the government may invade the private realm upon reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.
US_Foreign_Person says
I will give you a hint and see if anybody can come up with the solution in 48 hours.
The hint have you ever heard of the Euro.