I received the following by email — it is from Keith Redmond’s Facebook page (I still do not do Facebook so could not otherwise access). This story deserves its own post here. How many other Canadians who were border babies will one day sooner or later have their own OMG moments? There was a push to inform them in correspondence to mayors and a CBC broadcast. We wanted them to know of this site but that effort seems to not have connected with too many born across the border as long ago that is where the nearest hospitals were.
A truly heartbreaking story of a Canadian Accidental American…..
XXXXX to Accidental Americans
I just received the following heartbreaking story from a Canadian accidental. I wish there was something I could do or say to make her pain go away. I can’t. The only thing I can do is speak up and fight back on her behalf.
To all Accidentals. We need your stories and more stories. If we can collect more stories like this one out open letter to Obama will become extremely powerful. Please help us by 1) sharing your stories with us 2) writing to your domestic politicians asking them to act and also help you connect with other Accidentals 3) contact the press in your home country and 4) spread the word. Our strength is in numbers and nationalities.
*****************
Dear President Obama,
I am Canadian, married to an Accidental American, but we only found this out this summer, and it has turned our world upside down.
My husband was born in xxx just because it was the closest hospital to the small border town his parents lived in, and medicare had not yet come to Canada, so the cost was the same here or across the border. He was taken home within a day of his birth, and lived his entire life up to now right in this same area. He grew up on a farm, and always dreamed of one day owning his own farm. We worked day and night to make that dream come true, went without to pay for the necessities, raised our children on our farm. Up until a few months ago, we were in the process of semi-retiring and our son taking over the farm, but now that seems impossible. We are faced with huge accounting fees, because there is so much work involved to comply when you own a business, and we will also face huge capital gains if we sell. All this just because of where he was born, it seems like we don’t have the right to live here in Canada. Our tax-free savings will be taxed, our investments will be taxed because they are “foreign” investments?? How are they foreign, we are Canadians!! Because we own a farm, we have over 2 million dollars in assets, so he can’t renounce without paying the exit tax. We are trapped, and for what? Because the US owns him? Because you need our money more than we do? We get nothing in return! I really don’t think you fully understand what this is doing to so many Accidentals who knew nothing about this until now. The amount of money you will get from us will make little difference to you, but will most likely bankrupt us and ruin our lives, lives we have struggled to make a success. You also know about the TPP and what that is doing to dairy farmers in Canada, because you are the county who wants to dump milk into Canada, so we are also losing there. Our future looks bleak. I have had to start taking anti-depressants and sleeping pills just to carry on. My husband is angry and moody, very hard to get along with. I fear that if this goes bad and he has to pay huge taxes, that I will lose him, he will kill himself before he will watch his farm fail and our son’s future be ruined. This is my biggest fear.
Another problem here is that it is impossible to know where to turn, we have accountants everywhere who don’t know a thing about doing this and they just scare people into dropping it and “taking the chance” that they won’t get caught. The first accountant we paid to talk to told us so many things we later found out to be false, like the spouse has to file, the children have to file, he will have to pay taxes on my income, so many other things that were not true. We paid 3 account firms before we settled down and hired one to do it. The work involved in this was astronomical! My entire summer was swallowed up between farm work and US tax work!!
So please, Mr. President, think long and hard about the people this is hurting. We are human beings trying to survive. You are a human being who holds in your hands the power to let us go, let us live our lives as we were before we learned of US citizenship taxation. Please, I beg of you, for thousands of Accidentals, give us our lives back, let us renounce without losing our businesses, our life savings, our hope for the future of our children and grandchildren. Do what you know is right, your proposal in the 2016 Green Book shows that you know about Accidentals and that is just isn’t right, please help us, let us go. We are not saying we want nothing to do with the US, that just isn’t the case, we respect the US for the most part, but knowing what citizenship taxation is doing to Accidentals and expats is disturbing to say the least.
Should these letters to President Obama not also be copied, as a minimum, to US Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders AND, ESPECIALLY, our new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau?
I feel for these people but everytime someone tries to comply with insane laws they help strengthen those laws and make them become more real. If one million Canadians with US ties refused outright to comply or cooperate to any extent, this whole thing would have no teeth and be dead in the water.
@meridan
In the olden days, a king would bring his army to the gates of a foreign city and demand that the citizens bring out their silver and gold. Of course, Stephen Harper just let Obama come and take without first laying siege to our country.
For crying out loud, JUST SAY NO. Don’t pay the stupid tax or penalties. Don’t enter U.S.A. or board any domestic flight that might pass over U.S.A.
News flash: You don’t get anything in return for a lot of taxes.
Attention Justin Trudeau: Harper has been requiring Canadian banks in Canada to comply with a U.S.A. law and register with I.R.S. even if they have no operations in U.S.A. and no investments there. The banks are required to sign up on a website in English even if they are in Quebec. The account balances of Canadians are being reported to I.R.S. if the Canadian is classified as a U.S.A. person under U.S.A. laws, which ought to end at the border.
To improve the economy, modify the AML/KYC requirements so anybody can easily start investing in a Canadian financial institution in Canadian dollars. Then businesses around the world will open Canadian accounts to receive payments from Canadian firms and to pay invoices to Canadian firms.
For the farmingi couple in a bind..she s Canadian, he dual. Could they divorce and then have her given all assets in the settlement. He could then renounce. Then they could re-mary. Sounds ridiculous but their personal solution is so troubling that they need to have a fix and not wait for any government to see the light.
I hope that all letters sent to JT remind him of his repeated assertion that “A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian!” JT may or may not repeal the IGA, but even if it is repealed, the US will still require the financial information of Canadians living in Canada if those Canadians are considered US Persons. If Canadian FIs don’t cooperate with transferring this information, either to the CRA or directly to the IRS, those FIs will have considerable funds withheld from their US branch. If the Canada-US IGA is repealed or amended, will the Government of Canada bring in legislation PROHIBITING Canadian FIs from discriminating against Canadian customers (or potential customers) based upon birthplace or other “indicia” set by the US government?
As I said on Maple sandbox, does any one know how to reach these folks in order to give them proper advice?
I’m with @Tom Alciere on this one. Why allow the irrational diktats of a foreign government bring such grief? Especially if the fellow is dual from birth, thus protected from tax liabilities incurred while he was a resident citizen of Canada, as long as he avoids the US they can avoid the whole issue.
I’m in a similar position, albeit without the assets, and have simply gone the DIY quiet disclosure route along with renunciation, hoping that I will continue to have freedom to interact with the US but avoiding expensive accountants and lawyers. (However I am immensely grateful for Phil Hodgens and John Richardson for their articles and comments.) If the worse comes to worst, I too will just avoid the US from now on.
However, each must choose their own path and level of acceptable risk. Any Brockers in touch with this poor family who can at least present them with various options?
Some editorial advice: keep the letter short. Otherwise, it won’t be read in its entirety. It will make zero impress on Obama (or any president), but it would be helpful if it might be published openly in a newspaper. The author seems to live very close to the border. Perhaps a local newspaper directly across the border might publish it.
@calgrary411
It sounds like the husband was born dual. If so, the distraught wife should be told that the net worth test would not apply to the husband should he renounce. So, as long as he’s compliant (yes, I realize that will cost a bundle), he would escape the exit tax. That might go some way to helping to calm things down.
Also, she was concerned about having over $2 million in assets. It’s actually over $2 million net that is the cutoff in the net worth test. It’s a potentially important difference (though not if he’s a dual born). There’s also the option of gifting to get under the $2 million cutoff. So, provided his net worth is less than $7.43 million, he should still be able to escape the exit tax (again, not an issue if he’s born dual). Finally, assuming the assets are joint with the wife, only 1/2 of them are attributed to him.
@kcam
Renouncing alone won’t get him off the hook for taxes, as in order to completely extricate himself from the US, he’d need to certify US tax compliance for 5 years too.
He’s better off doing nothing than half-way measures that only serve to put him on the radar.
Sad thing about this whole thing… he is not alone in this situation… rural areas in Canada had children across the border because no hospital was available in Canada near them… This is the fault of the canadian gov’t who did not provide hospitals to canadians. U would be surprise the number of farms whose owners are duals due to this situation… In the old days… this situation was not seen as a big thing… in today’s time… this is bad…
Kinda like when they started installing barricades in the sewer systems that were built so many decades earlier. Nobody thought barricades would serve any purpose. If somebody wanted to enter U.S.A. from Mexico, why wouldn’t they simply load up their marijuana cart to a mule and go right through the port of entry?
Refuse to pay. Refuse to pay. Refuse to pay.
The legal challenge needs to succeed. What’s the point of the US receiving FATCA data if it can’t collect. This question needs to be settled or else the US will push for ‘collection assistance.’
What’s stopping the US from applying the 30% withholding in future if a country doesn’t assist the US in collections? Nothing. All the Secretary of the US Treasury has to do is change the rules without Congress’ approval.
I’m still waiting for a response from US-born Irish Senator Katherine Zappone. Perhaps it’s time to ring her Dublin office yet again. She’s Fina Gael, the ruling party that signed Ireland’s IGA.
Resign yourself to the fact you WON’T pay the US anything and will refuse every attempt by them. Don’t let the US get the best of you that you need to resort to anti-depressants.
@ meridian, Tom Alciere, OddlyNamed, Don …
I concur. USCIS ignored (lost, shredded, laughed off … who knows?) my I-407 so that ended it for me. I’m a refusnik who will never cross the border. This letter breaks my heart but Obama’s heart is totally hardened, completely impenetrable. Even on the off chance it crossed his desk it wouldn’t affect him in the least. It definitely should be sent to Trudeau though. His heart may not have been hardened yet.
I wonder if this couple could be persuaded to a make a donation–and a substantial donation at that–to the ADCS-ADSC legal effort? While I believe they have been victims of an injustice, according the article they are worth millions. They may not think of themselves as deep pocketed but from my perspective–with a net worth that is a tiny fraction of that–they are deep pocketed. If I can give to ADCS-ADSC this couple ought to be able to give a lot more.
I’m not broke but something about this story just leaves me with a sense that–while this couple is definitely being treated unjustly–in a rich country like Canada more people should be stepping up to the plate to help. This couple should be doing something to help and not just waiting for Obama, Harper, or even Trudeau to do something.
We are human beings trying to survive.
No they are multimillionaires. There are children in the USA going hungry.
This is our story also! We also just recently found out that my partner must pay tax to the US even though he left aged 9 years old. It has also turned our world upside down. The cost of complying in itself is enough of a shock, then the complete lack of sound advice. Its scary and my partner is also on anti anxiety and sleeping pills. We can’t renounce or we loose 1/2 our life savings just as we are about to retire. We are not criminals! Why are we being treated like this? I keep hoping the unfairness and absurdity of CBT will be decried worldwide and that this will go away.
Meanwhile we have to get on with our lives. We must not let FATCA dominate our lives. Kia kana ( stand strong in Maori)
@Dash1729
People can be paper rich…. if u tally what they have…. but lack in liquid funds… would have to sell or cash in to actually have cash… they struggle to pay for their day to day… have the same expenses as everyone else…. Or do something like get a loan to deal with in the lean times… that has to be paid back…
If u sit down & total what u have… u will be very surprised how much u have… so the so called 2 million dollar figure is easy to reach especially if u own property
@ Dash1729
I think it’s the nature of farming (i.e. small farms not Big Agra) that many farmers are land rich but cash poor. Although you can eat and sell what you grow on your land, you cannot pay for all the necessities of life with handfuls of soil. Farmers are a banker’s dream because they require big loans (therefore big interest payments) in order to continue from one year to the next. (Taking on a second job is often needed to pay the bills.) Although some farmers may have sizeable bank accounts, please don’t assume this couple do because many farmers do not. It sounds to me like they have already paid large sums in an effort to free themselves so what I’m most concerned about is that someone can at least let them know that there is NO EXIT TAX for duals. How I wish they had found Brock before they found so much bad advice.
If you want to visually put the Accidentals dilemma into perspective, take the UK for example, resident UK citizens are expected to comply with 17,000 pages of UK tax code. Now when you enable the US to collect FATCA data you’re asking that UK citizen (with US taint) to comply with an additional 70,000 pages of US tax code.
One citizen is burdened with 17,000 pages of UK tax code, while another is burdened with 87,000 pages of the combined UK and US tax code.
Is that really fair?
@ Don
Good point. Former Pres. Clinton once made political hay with the slogan, “It’s the economy, stupid.” For us it could well be, “It’s the complexity, stupid.”
More troubling news, the TalkTalk data breach in the UK is I believe the third time this company has been attacked. This time 4 million customers with names, address, credit card/bank accounts details hacked.
What chance do the banks have of keeping FATCA data (or really a ready made list of ‘US persons’ for terrorists / criminals) private?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34615226
The US Government puts at risk US lives abroad in the name of collecting taxes. Shameful.
Blaze,
I’ve asked the person who sent this on to me if she can get back to Keith Redmond through his Facebook page — with the link to this and all comments — and the fact that there is this site as well as Maple Sandbox.
@kiwi
If your partner has not already done so, he needs to
1) Assess his financial situation w.r.t. cost of compliance, exit tax, etc. Lots of us have been through this and we can certainly gladly help, but we’ll need more information than what you’ve provided. This may have an influence on #2, below. FWIW, the vast, vast majority of people who become 5 year compliant would not face the exit tax, if that’s what your concern about losing 1/2 your life savings is based on.
2) Determine whether he wants to make a clean exit of the US tax system via renunciation, or if he wants to fly under the radar. Lots of people here did/do both, so again, there’s no shortage of advice.
FWIW, I went thru much of what your partner is going thru when I found out. Couldn’t sleep more than about 4 hours a night, decreased appetite and accompanying loss of weight, lots of rage. What helped me was finally getting an understanding of where exactly I stood and what my options were. I would wholeheartedly advise your partner do the same if he hasn’t already, and I think nobody here would disagree.
They need all of that information, tdott. Hope they and others like them make their way here to read and ask questions. They also will feel not so alone in all they are going through.