cross posted from ADCSovereignty page
UPDATE September 28, 2015
CANADA
from Tricia Moon:
As we wait (and wait and wait) I thought I would tell you of a small thing that happened to me that might make a few people feel better…
I opened a (new) bank account last Friday with a different branch of BNS than the one where I still have quite a few accts. After about 3 mins, poof! Not asked “Are you or have you ever been an American citizen/U.S. “Person?” Not asked to fill out a W8 or W9.
I asked the gentleman why and he said as an existing customer, they already have done the KYC/AML procedures etc.I mentioned that I renounced, had a CLN etc and we had a very nice discussion.
However, it was interesting that he didn’t pick up that the bank could have been in error by not asking considering I very much was US for the majority of my time as their customer. Meaning lots of others who haven’t renounced/have no CLN may well not have to worry…
Many duals will obviously be able to evade detection -even with new accounts- if their banks have similar policies. He also told me that it is illegal for a bank to photocopy any identification documents. And never to let anyone take ID to do that.
So perhaps, way back when, even if one DID use a a non-US passport with a US birthplace, I can’t really imagine the birthplace being written down-just the passport number (of course, for years prior to FATCA).
September 27, 2015
from Dr. Stephen Kish:
Yesterday I attended a meeting of the Republican Overseas (RO), who are mounting their own lawsuit against FATCA and the IGAs. I met, for the first time in person, Dani Küttel, who has been posting on this site and who is one of the plaintiffs. The U.S. Government lawyers, as expected, are attempting to contest “standing” of all of the plaintiffs arguing that our wounds are self-inflicted. The decision on the RO injunction (September 28-29) will be made at about the same time as that for our request for a stay (September 28?) and their attorney will advise me as soon as the Federal Court has ruled in their case.
September 26, 2015
from Dr. Stephen Kish:
“LITIGATION UPDATE: We instructed the Arvay-Gruber team to take legal steps to prevent the handover and obtain a stay related to the summary trial appeal. It is likely now (but situation still fluid) that the Court will hear our motion for a stay. There will be no oral arguments and the court will consider our arguments based on the written submission only. The Government of Canada will also file written materials. I will release the motion when I am able to do so.
The “live feed” below will pick up every tweet that uses the hashtag#StopFatca. Please help get this message out-join our Tweet brigade (another version of Brock SWAT) now at 56! Canadians have 1 day to continue pressuring the government prior to transmission on Sept 29. Other Model 1 IGA countries have 2 days prior to transmission on Sept 30. Please advise of any countries who have received an extension from the September 30, 2015 deadline. Also please advise if you know of any governments who have notified the IRS that they want the extension.
Every US Person abroad needs to put the same pressure on their own governments TO STOP THE EXCHANGES FROM TAKING PLACE as all Model 1 IGA’s require turnover of information by September 30. Each government has TO ACTUALLY REQUEST THIS EXTENSION FROM THE IRS, so members need to take responsibility for making sure their respective tax authority/government does so.
WORLD
The Treasury Department is up to something. new CAAs signed
The titles of both agreements include the words “to improve International Tax Compliance and to Implement FATCA. I am afraid to imagine what that actually means.
A competent authority arrangement is a bilateral agreement between the U.S. and its treaty partners to clarify or interpret provisions of an existing tax treaty, such as the ones used to justify the intergovernmental agreements, or IGAs, under FATCA
“The signing of these Competent Authority Arrangements marks another significant milestone in the international effort to gain proper reporting of offshore accounts and income,” said IRS Commissioner John Koskinen in a statement. “Together in partnership with other tax authorities, we are demonstrating how far we have come in the fight against offshore tax evasion.”
ATO hands over bank details to US Internal Revenue Service
THE AUSTRALIAN SEPTEMBER 24, 2015 12:00AM
The Australian Taxation Office has handed the US Internal Revenue Service details of more than 30,000 bank accounts containing more than $5 billion in the first transfer of information under America’s Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.The ATO said that in return for supplying the FATCA data, the IRS will give it information about Australians with US accounts that will be used to root out undeclared offshore income.Its figures imply the accounts, revealed to the IRS in the first tranche of data, have an average balance of more than $160,000.
Note: Link not guaranteed due to paywall
Jamaica reportedly will not take advantage of the delay in transmitting information to the IRS. (Waiting for source)
A Liechtenstein court that ordered a temporary injunction was to give a decision on September 18 (last Friday). We are looking for information on the decision. (hattip to Mary Margreiter)
CANADA
Making this a political issue in Canada & linking to October 19, 2015 election
Important Swing Ridings – Strategic Voting Necessary to Prevent CPC being elected
Riding: DELTA
The Honorable Kerry-Lynne Findlay
Minister of National Revenue (CRA) & defendant in Summary Trial
If you are voting strategically & your riding is Delta, pls vote Liberal
All Candidates Meeting
Wednesday, September 30, 7-9 pm North Delta Secondary School
11447 82nd Avenue Delta, BC V4C 5J6 MAP
This page has contact numbers, links to riding boundaries, other candidates running etc.
Riding: EGLINTON LAWRENCE
The Honorable Joe Oliver
Minister of Finance
If you are voting strategically & your riding is Eglinton Lawrence, pls vote Liberal
Get your T-Shirt HERE.
RESOURCES TO USE/SHARE
STRATEGIC VOTING:
Strategic Voting.com
AND Vote Together
FOR EMAIL:
ADCS PR pdf file: ADCS PR 19SEP15 pdf
ADCS PR png file: ADCS PR 19SEP15 png
ADCS letter to Minister Findlay: adcs_reqminfind_b_sep_21_2015-1
Elizabeth May GPC letter to PMSH pdf:fatca-lettertoprimeminister_0
Nathan Cullen NDP letter to Ministers Findlay & Oliver: 2015-09-21 Letter – Cullen to CRA-Fin re FATCA-1
John Weston CPC to Minister Findlay:Weston to MNR
For TWITTER:
Please use this hashtag: #StopFatca.
Please use RT on every Tweet
NB: If you RT someone, please put #StopFatca in the reply space above the tweet you’re retweeting. Otherwise, your RTs won’t show up in the feed and we want to see every single Tweet!
You can use this shortened link in order to get more info, hastags, etc into the tweet: http://bit.ly/1WaBY1i
Since it is a Twitter assault, may I suggest that you manageflitter.com use to identify your followers with the highest influence, and contact them to RT. Let the assault begin!
CRA
@KerryLynneFindl Minister of National Revenue
@AndrewTreusch Commissioner of Revenue
@JohnOssowski Deputy Commissioner of the CRA
@OTO_Canada Office of the Taxpayers Ombudsman
Ministry of Finance & Standing Committee
@MinJoeOliver Minister joe.oliver@parl.gc.ca 613-369-3710 TO office:Tel 416-781-5583 Fax: 416-781-5586
@AndrewSaxton1 Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance andrew.saxtion@parl.gc.ca
@KevinASorenson K.Sorenson@fin.gc.ca Minister of State (Finance)
@TimSargent Associate Deputy Minister
Members of Standing Committee for Finance are HERE .
If you already have followers who are not expats but may be sympathetic, share other political issues, please send them the tweet directly with the RT; don’t assume they will see it in their feed just because they follow you. Creating a network with other users is important in order to utilyze social media to the max.
Tweet to individuals
If you don’t want to write your own, you can copy/paste these (already tweeted so 140 characters or less)
CDN govt 2 turn over 1million+ of ur fellow CDNs 2 IRS
Let them know u won’t tolerate this #StopFatca RT
#StopFatca Stop PMSH from allowing IRS 2 manage
CDN banks! Protect CDNs’ privacy! Tell CDN govt NO!Pls RT
Financial info of 1million fellow CDNs 2 b given 2 IRS
bc PMSH wants 2! Violates sovereignty & privacy RT #StopFatca
Tweet to Govt/Mp’s etc:
No need 4 CDN govt 2 transfer CDNs’info due 2 IRS delay
Protect CDN sovereignty & privacy rights #StopFatca RT
Govt of CAD:IRS delays transfer of financial info-don’t betray 1million+ CDNS
Will remember on 10/19 #StopFatca RT
Govt of CAD:IRS delays transfer of financial info-don’t betray 1million+ CDNS
Will remember on 10/19 #StopFatca RT
Experienced users who can add a 2nd hashtag as well as using #StopFatca and RT
please also use the following #s as they will link to the network of other CDNs involved in the anti-harper govt re-election
#elxn42 #elxn2015 #ABC2015 #cdnpoli #GoHarperGo #harperman #StopHarper #Heavesteve2015
For FACEBOOK:
You can share from any of these groups:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/citizenshiptaxation/
https://www.facebook.com/ADCSovereignty/
https://www.facebook.com/ADSCanadienne/
https://www.facebook.com/The-Isaac-Brock-Society-341446319218930/timeline/
https://www.facebook.com/USExpatsCanada/
Or from these pages:
“https://www.facebook.com/CitizenshipTaxation/
https://www.facebook.com/AccidentalAmericans/
Other pages that also have this post/information:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmericanExpatriates/permalink/516231728542904/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AARO.Open.Forum/permalink/10150558700159950/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/accidental.americans/permalink/121884294833336/
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/frgn/1135_fq-eng.html
Part of question 21:
“Only taxpayers resident in Canada have to file form T1135”
OK, no sign of CBT there.
Belgium has long asked, via the tax return, to list foreign countries where one holds an account.
This year it has a new requirement, which is similar to an FBAR: send in a form (electronic or paper) to the Belgian Central Bank with the countries, account numbers, bank addresses. If one is audited, the Finance Ministry can ask for permission to access this information. It can also be accessed in case of financial confiscation (?), I guess by people one owes money to. Of note, bank balances are not (yet?) required. Of note also, the information is not directly held by the Finance Ministry, which needs to ask for it and is destroyed after 8 years. And of course when you no longer reside in Belgium they leave you alone.
You are dealing with thugs! Do you honestly think these politicians actually care about Canada and Canadians? They only care about their pay and their pensions. They can buy and pay judges as well. Canada is completely doomed!
@Fred and @All
Many countries at various times have had Exchange Control …. whereby holding an account outside the country was made Illegal and limits were placed on how much foreign currency one could access each year. These powers have been abused wickedly over the decades. UK had such Exchange Control for years and even to invest in the US Stock Market, one had to request Investment Dollars (and pay a premium for same).
Jamaica is a classic example whereby it was made illegal for Jamaican residents to own accounts outside the Island, people were severely restricted as to how much foreign currency one could acquire each year for personal use … this came to a peak during the 1970s when Jamaica was playing with Democratic Socialism and promising to walk to the mountain top hand in hand with Fidel Castro …. for a time the figure was US$50 per year. Of course the (correctly) politically connected had no problem accessing all the forex they required. A special Police Department, called the Financial Intelligence Unit, was set up to enforce these things and to make life hell for anybody suspected of removing currency from Jamaica. It got to the point where shops had hardly any goods for sale and basics like soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, cheeze and most other things became VERY hard to obtain. A black market took control and boomed. FIU Searched Jamaicans and their baggage as they left the Island, searching their businesses and homes and so on. Prominent Jamaicans were arrested for relatively small sums. The US, Canada and the UK were the primary beneficiaries as black market funds were sourced and deposited in accounts in those countries to be outside the net to pay for emigration and resettlement of families, education for children and so on. Of course were a reciprocal FATCA to have been in force, all these people’s accounts would have been reported straight back to the FIU in Jamaica and penalties for those captured included prison sentences and bankrupting penalties.
All this started when a law was passed requiring Jamaicans to report their foreign accounts and investments to the central Bank of Jamaica. Assurances were given that .. not to worry, this is for information purposes only, you can keep your foreign accounts. Law Abiding Suckers reported their foreign holdings. Shortly thereafter the order was issued “Sell your foreign holdings and repatriate them to Jamaica”. Of course for those who complied, that was the destruction of their family investments as their now Jamaican Dollar denominated investments devalued to peanuts. Similar story for those officially leaving Jamaica permanently … one could take a relatively small amount with you (as I recollect, US$20,000) and that at some time in the future the Bank of Jamaica would permit further tranches to follow you. In many cases that permission was never received and the funds continued to devalue away. This is the sort of brutality that will be empowered by FATCA / CRS. These are acts of enslavement. by Tyrants.
There are Just Laws and there are UnJust Laws. The US Constitution is a pretty good example of a Just Law. What a shame that the US Government has lost sight of its own Constitution. What a shame that said Government now thinks that it has a right to impose UnJust Law on the entire world. What a shame that OUR Governments around the world are so willing to empower themselves that they accept imposing compliance domestically with said UnJust foreign (US) Law.
Will anyone know if the CRA handed over the data files, they could have been handed over at 0900 thi morning?
Should someone do a freedom of information request to the the CRA or IRS to find the date and time?
But Stephen Kish is right in the sense that pressure stays on till you know because a sound leader would have at a MINIMUM told his minister in charge to delay the handover until 30 September so they have time to think about this.
The reality is that Canada gains nothing by handing it over on the 23d or the 29th.
Turning it over today when there is no reason considering you can wait six more days is just nuts.
@ George
As well as that “date and time” you mention I would like to see a FOIA request re: the number of FATCA reports the Canadian FIs have sent to the CRA thus far.
@Embee, yes the number of accounts would be interesting. But I agree with some that number will be low in round one…….
@Nervousinvestor, thank you for your writeup which I have copied. 🙂
It doesn’t matter whether it’s the CRA or one of Harper’s stooges that hands over the data what they intend to do is show Canada who is in control – certainly not the CRA or Harper, but the Americans!
Canada has been relegated to a US State status.
Sad but true.
George, EmBee, All,
Reported here is the first sad news of information turn-over. The Australians beat the Canadians.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/media-and-blog-articles-open-for-comments-part-2-of-2/comment-page-38/#comment-6598458
@Calgary…….we need to dissect that Australian turn over and look at it like a junior staff member on capital hill in Washington.
30,000 accounts and $5 billion dollars.
Per wikipedia, we know “At the 2006 Australian Census, 71,718 Australian residents declared that they were American-born. ”
So less than half got ratted out. Uncle Sam will not like that and will demand deeper more intensive scrutiny.
Per the IRS, we know that roughly 11,000 tax returns were received from OZ.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Individual-Foreign-Earned-Income-Foreign-Tax-Credit
From the above article, the MEANINGLESS average account size $166,000.
The sheep are going to be slaughtered.
Thousands and thousands of sheep are going to be slaughtered.
PS. As an aside, 46,000 tax returns from Canada and the sheep do not even know what is going to happen to them.
If this were a US tax form it would be illegal to declare that an estimate is an estimate, or why. But this isn’t a US tax form so I’m going to do it.
George, thank you for your estimates, but they’re estimates.
Per Wikipedia, we don’t know how many Australian-born Australians had a US parent in Australia.
The number of accounts doesn’t have to match the number of US persons. If Australia allows joint accounts, two US persons might share an account. Or if Australian banks close accounts of US persons, two (or one) US person might have zero accounts.
Some US persons in Australia might not have to file US tax returns, if they have low enough income. They might have to file FBARs, depending on the above-mentioned matters. But does the IRS supply stats on the number of FBARs? Also, if a US person in Australia has no earned income due to retirement or other reasons, then they might not file for Foreign Earned Income or Foreign Tax Credit, though they’ll be in trouble for a different reason (zero earned income automatically renders a US return frivolous even when it’s true).
But yeah, a lot of sheep don’t know what’s going to happen to them. It’s fortunate that this site helps get the word out, every little bit helps, even though it’s a very very little bit in comparison to what’s going to happen.
George,
Thanks for the Q&D analysis. For Austrailia…
Hopefully, more people will wake up, as in Australia …
and, if only there were proper good media coverage of this in Canada…
I don’t see a soft way to break the news, but I want others to know and I want others to donate to what I think is their only hope — litigation here or in the US or elsewhere. May we have some wake-up calls…
Sheep with no IRS amnesty program once their data hits the IRS. How can any nation do this to its people? The Canadian government should have done a better job warning people that this is coming down, but the banks wouldn’t like that.
@Norman Diamond, “but they’re estimates.”
As I wrote in line one “and look at it like a junior staff member on capital hill in Washington.”
Been there, done that……
But your point is well taken in that the number of people who will be slaughtered will be far worse as Congress will now be vindicated in passing “this needed law.”
@Bubbles, “The Canadian government should have done a better job warning people that this is coming down,”
I had not thought of that but you are right. Harper could have said he passed it with a heavy heart and warned at the top of his lungs that if you have a US Place of Birth, get into streamlined now.
I don’t know how to interpret “30,000 accounts”. Can someone hazard a guess at how many poor lambs to the slaughter that represents? Many people have multiple accounts and often in different institutions. Did the Australian tax agency sift through all the FATCA reports it received and then combine them neatly into one report for each alleged US person to send along to the IRS? I suppose using SS numbers it could have been done quite easily by computer … but did they?
@Embee, you need to think like a junior staffer working in Washington wanting to make your boss look good and sound brilliant.
There are going to be a lot of names on that list who do not file US returns. My guess, ten thousand plus……..
The USA also knows because of the internet that there are over 70,000 persons in OZ with a US place of birth. Ergo, the banks are not doing a good enough job finding die Juden.
@George
I don’t know about recommending Streamlined, but what about allowing people to make their own decisions rather than having the IRS sneak up behind them and say GOTCHA! It’s still not too late for Harper to DELAY, DELAY, DELAY!
@EmBee
I don’t know whether the Australian IGA resembles the Canadian in that the Canadian exempts the reporting of many types of accounts…
If it does, then one account report could be only one of several that the U.S. could potential FBAR.
Let’s not forget that the Harper government’s attitude was, and likely still is that we should be filing anyway. How we find out is of no consequence to them – or is it?
@ George
Think like “a junior staffer working in Washington”? Tall order since some days I can hardly even think like me. My major concern is how this will affect so many people who deserved and did not get protection by their governments against the extortion and intrusion of the US government. Although it takes a long reach for the IRS to harass those outside the US boundaries, we can’t forget that there are those within those boundaries who can now be threatened and have their accounts seized for non-compliance — in most cases INNOCENT non-compliance.
This Australian news makes me sick. And to think that the politicians/civil “servants” doing this actually believe that they will get reciprocity. I see the government over there is just as STUPID as the government here in Canada.
I hope the ATO has lots of patience because it will be a long time before the US reciprocates
@Bubbles
Canada received no special deal at all. Here’s a link to what other countries got:http://www.groom.com/media/publication/1224_IGA_Cumulative_List_Alpha_03272015.pdf
IOW Canadian politicians lied … surprised?
@Marie
I asked them to let us know how it turned out for them……. 😉