[The following responses are to FATCA Letters to Leaders and MPs (March 2015)]
PART 1 — the NDP Party response
…cross-posted from Lynne Swanson post at MapleSandbox: NDP Party Response to Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (ADCS-ADSC)
“I have just received a response to ADCS on the letter we sent to the leaders five months ago. Here is the reply from Murray Rankin.
RE: US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
Thank you for writing to share your ongoing concerns regarding the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and the Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) between Canada and the United States designed to implement FATCA in Canada.
New Democrats are deeply troubled by the implications of FATCA and the associated IGA, and we are closely monitoring the litigation your organization has commenced against the Government of Canada.
From the beginning, many organizations raised the alarm that the IGA for the implementation of FATCA in Canada may violate the privacy rights of Canadians and could be subject to constitutional challenge.
The NDP has repeatedly raised concerns about the FATCA agreement that was negotiated behind closed doors and rushed through Parliament without proper consultation or examination.
Previously, New Democrats called on the Conservative government to acknowledge the broad concerns expressed by Canadians and civil society organizations regarding the implementation of this IGA. We asked the Conservative government to agree to remove it from omnibus Budget Bill C-31, which granted the Minister of National Revenue sweeping powers to make any regulation necessary to carry out the agreement.
It is my belief that the decision to rush this legislation through Parliament was reckless and, as a result, it lacks the safeguards needed to protect many of the rights that Canadians so dearly value.
New Democrats have repeatedly questioned Conservatives in the House of Commons and at the Standing Committee on Finance. It became abundantly clear that the Conservative government has very little understanding of the consequences of FATCA and has been tone deaf regarding the very real concerns of hundreds of thousands of Canadians.
Moving forward, New Democrats remain committed to ensure that Canadians’ voices are heard and that our laws are consistent with the constitution, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and Canadian sovereignty more broadly.
A New Democrat government will order a full and urgent review of the FATCA IGA to identify and address all measures that threaten the constitutional and privacy rights of all Canadians.
We will seek to reopen the IGA for renegotiation with the United States in order to address the serious concerns of Canadians and ensure that their rights are protected. We will do so in an open and transparent manner – instead of the secretive manner pursued by the Conservatives.
More broadly, we will ensure that all proposed legislation is subject to a more robust screening to ensure compliance with the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Conservatives have failed to uphold this duty, with the result that, in many instances, litigation was initiated that could have been avoided.
As noted above, New Democrats continue to closely watch the progress of your litigation against the Government of Canada.
We also understand that many people across Canada are now directly facing the consequences of the agreement. New Democrat Members of Parliament will continue to assist individuals access the information and resources they need regarding how the FATCA IGA affects them.
Please feel free to contact me with any concerns you may have.
Sincerely,
Murray Rankin
NDP Candidate for Victoria
NDP Deputy Critic for National Revenue “
****************
PART 2– the Liberal Party response
…also cross-posted from Lynne Swanson post at MapleSandbox: Liberal Party Response to Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (ADCS-ADSC)
“Because I posted the reply from the NDP via Murray Rankin in its own thread, I am doing the same with the Liberal response to ADCS via Justin Trudeau.
Dear Ms. Swanson:
Thank you for taking the time to write to me with your concerns regarding the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
The safeguarding of personal privacy has become an increasingly important issue to all Canadians. The government’s move to ensure that information is reported 2 the U.S. through Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) and not directly from the banks was a positive step; however, the implications of having the CRA report to a foreign government about Canadian citizens are still troublesome. The Liberal Party of Canada believes that the Conservative government’s efforts to safeguard the personal privacy of Canadians have been inadequate.
While the United States has the right to target tax evaders using offshore accounts, targeting hard working Canadians who pay taxes is unfair. The government of Canada has a responsibility to stand up for its citizens when foreign governments are encroaching on their rights. We believe that the deal reached between Canada and the U.S. is insufficient to protect affected Canadians.
Thank you once again for writing to me; I always appreciate it when Canadians take the time to share their concerns with me. It is through such exchanges of ideas and opinions that I can best represent not only my constituents, but all Canadians.
Sincerely
Justin J.P. Trudeau “
****************
PART 3 — Additional Clarification needed from Liberal Party Leader Justin Trudeau re his definitions in *A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian*
I (calgary411) am also putting into this post the email sent yesterday to my Liberal candidate and Liberal MP Scott Brison, asking them to get answers from their Party Leader, Justin Trudeau. Some may agree we need answers to these questions as well:
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 1:49 PM
To: Matt Grant ; Scott Brison
Subject: A question for the Liberal Party Leader and the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship ActDear Confederation Calgary Liberal Candidate and Honourable Liberal Member of Parliament Scott Brison,
Many Canadians were pleased to hear Mr. Trudeau’s new statements regarding Canadian citizenship equality, but some of us need further clarification.
For all *US Persons in Canada*, can you please get an answer from your Party Leader, Justin Trudeau, to the following specific questions. No political generalities please.
Mr. Trudeau — are there differences in *second-class Canadians* — the ones you refer to regarding the Bill C-24, Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act?
As part of the slippery slope now enabled in Canada — the march in legislation
– from Bill C-31 (making *US Persons in Canada* second-class to any others by virtue of place of birth of an individual or the individual’s parent(s)
– to Bill C-51, with definitions of *terrorist*
– to Bill C-24 to exile and banish certain of Canada’s second-class citizens (even if born in Canada),Do you consider US-deemed US citizens in Canada *US citizens who happen to reside in Canada* (including even those born in Canada and have never lived or had any benefit from the USA)?
or,
Do you consider US-deemed US citizens in Canada the very same as any other second-class Canadian as part of your statements
“Liberals will guarantee that all Canadians’ fundamental rights are respected as guided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”
“Canadian citizenship should not be conditional. A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.”
“All Canadians need to know that their government has their back.”?
Specific and straight answers to the above questions will help determine for many the way we will vote on October 19. I will pass Mr. Trudeau’s answer on to one-issue *US-deemed US Person* Canadians, who are now also deemed second-class citizens in Canada by the Conservative government.
We want to absolutely know from Mr. Trudeau if he will fight for our same rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms as those Charter rights of all other Canadians .
Thank you for your help in asking this question on our behalf.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Carol Tapanila
Calgary, AB
******************
Will also include … e-mail that Lynne Swanson sent to Justin Trudeau with a cc to her Liberal candidate.
Last week, you said “All Canadians have to know that the government has their back.”
You insisted the Conservative government’s Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act “devalues Canadian citizenship by creating two classes of citizenship.” You vowed to repeal that Act. You promised a Liberal government “will guarantee that all Canadians’ fundamental rights are respected as guided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”
So, why aren’t you taking such a strong stand against the FATCA Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) and the enabling law that supersedes all Canadian laws on the demands of a foreign bully?
Would a Liberal government “have the back” of Canadians born in the United States? Would a Liberal government repeal the IGA? If not, would a Liberal government amend the enabling legislation to protect Canadian citizens and residents born in the U.S.? Would a Liberal government restore full citizenship to Canadians born in the U.S.? Would a Liberal government “guarantee that all Canadians’ fundamental rights are respected as guided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?”
I know what your father would have done. He would have stood up for one million Canadians. He would have told the United States “You can’t FATCA Canada or Canadian citizens.” When the media asked how far he would go to have the back of Canadians, he would have said “Just watch me.” He would have guaranteed that Canadians born in the U.S. have their fundamental rights respected under the Charter.
What will you do? Are you ready to stand up to the Americans for Canadians? My vote depends on your answer.
I suspect everyone’s positions will be a whole lot clearer should Gwen and Ginny’s lawsuit be successful.
@PatCanadian
Great you’re getting a face to face with your NDP candidate.
@PatCanadian
Re: “RE: ” Did you know that the IRS forbids anyone who doesn’t certify they aren’t US person from opening a bank account in Canada now? ” Maybe we could all add this outrageous information to our correspondence and spread the news.”
Here is more information on that IRS requirement:
http://www.bna.com/fatca-versus-igas-n17179934450/
@Bubblebustin and Calgary411
It’s not a face to face with my NDP candidate, we will be talking on the phone. However, I have met my Liberal candidate in person. It’s an ongoing process but I think we are all making progress. We need further clarification from the Liberals. The candidates have personal opinions but tend not to speak up on official Liberal policy which I find exasperating.
@PatCanadian
I think the NDP and Liberal leaders are gutless on speaking out against the IGA because the Prime Minister would hammer them with the 30% penalty levied against all US dollar transactions. Never mind that this is blatant extortion! Either that or they just don’t care, which may be more likely, sad to say. Trudeau makes big noises about having the backs of all Canadians but I fear he means the ones who have a Canadian passport as an insurance policy, like the ones trapped in Lebanon a few years ago. Never mind those with a US tattoo who have paid taxes here, raised families and felt lucky to have two weeks vacation time in which to visit Niagara Falls or (gasp) Disneyworld. The soft underbelly of the much vaunted Canadian Mosaic is that the American born don’t count. Every Brocker knows this, and Justin’s father as much as said it by his actions if not his words. At least Pierre was a know quantity and a wily adversary…Justin is just clueless, I’m afraid.
@Bubblebustin, thank you for providing the Bloomberg BNA link
http://www.bna.com/fatca-versus-igas-n17179934450/
I love it that the interpretation of the ill-conceived IGAs is causing disagreement between the signing parties and confusion for the FFIs. It serves the US and Canadian governments (among others) right for acting so hastily in drafting and signing the IGAs I can’t wait until the ADCS court case verdict throws further doubt on the whole mess.
It’s clear that the US administration cooked up the IGAs when it realized that the original FATCA was unenforceable. It just tried to pass the buck to other countries. Now, when pushback finally occurs from the other countries, it will be forced to deal with the enforcement problems of FATCA head-on. It’s hard to imagine the havoc that will be caused among “friendly” countries and trading partners when the US starts applying the 30 per cent withholding on transfers to financial institutions in other countries.
@Lake Superior Guy
Problem for me is that Justin Trudeau voted for C-51… he said he was against it… he voted for it… with a promise… it will be fixed when we are in control… bs… he seems to act like the popular guy in high school… he will do or say anything to stay popular… to me… he has no substance… he seems to answer questions with fairy dust…. u think he is giving a real answer… but if u think about it after… it was all double talk… but he didn’t answer the question…. Sometimes I get the feeling that the light is on… but the room is empty…
I do not want to get into a political fight.. its just my opinion & feelings… I was a life long Con…. but with the events of the last few yrs.. I can no longer support them… Many in my family agree with me…
@US_Foreign_Person
I hear you! It is tough to be betrayed by people you once supported. I’m not looking for a fight either but if the Libs win the power will be the old hoary politicians like John McCallum and Ralph Goodale. Justin will be a sock puppet. 😉
@LakeSuperiorGuy
*Justin will be a sock puppet*
lol… I wanted to say puppet but I thought I would be nice… for once…
@US_Foreign- Person
I like sock puppet…and I liked Justin until he muzzled his caucus and future candidates on the issue of abortion. By the way John McCallum was chief economist for the Royal Bank in another life. If he gets Justin’s ear there will be little hope for a repeal of the IGA in a Liberal gov’t. “JUSTIN WE MUST PROTECT THE BANKS!!!!”
EmBee: I’m glad you found my “Introduction” useful! I hope others will too. Since election issues are really heating up now I’ll repost the link here http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/07/08/canadian-federal-election-its-time-to-throw-the-people-who-betrayed-us-out-of-office/
Badger: Thank you for reminding me and others that there is another alternative that hasn’t been discussed much here. Elizabeth May has been a huge supporter of our cause and the Green Party is certainly the best strategic vote in at least one riding in Canada! Perhaps this is the year they will pick up another couple of seats.
Is there a table available … Riding by Riding …. showing how many votes each party got last election ? (now dreaming) forecast for each party for the coming election? To help people to decide where to strategically vote to ensure that Conservative Candidates do NOT get through.
FALSE:
“Canadian tax authorities have put a stay on passing Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) data to the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS) while awaiting the result of a legal challenge.”
…and some reference to the Canadian federal election here:
http://globalmoneynews.tumblr.com/post/128165386641/fatca-legal-challenge-result-expected-soon
@Bubblebustin
http://globalmoneynews.tumblr.com/post/128165386641/fatca-legal-challenge-result-expected-soon
“Canada has agreed not to exchange any information until after the court result.”
Nice to see that in print. Now for the judge’s decision.
@PatCanadian
Canada hasn’t agreed to any such thing. What if the judge renders a decision on September 30th? As you’ve pointed out, Justice Martineau is only going to “try” to have something by September 13, and I don’t see how he’d be under any time constraints should his decision not be in favour of the plaintiffs.
This statement gives the false impression that the Canadian government has suspended the implementation of FATCA pending the courts. I’d hate for anyone to think the Canadian government has suddenly taken the high ground on this, when they intend to fight this Every step of the way with our own tax dollars for the the benefit of the banks!
@Bubbles….in the mountain of legal paper work….Canada made a statement that they would not hand over any data until at least 15 September.
So that means if there is no decision on the morning of the 16th and Pete the Clerk at CRA has “hand over IGA data” on his to do list, Pete the Clerk might just hand it over.
Canada has made no promise not to wait for the Judge.
I really feel sorry for some of the good folks whose data is going to be handed over and they do not even know it. Mark my words there are people around the globe who are going to get letters from the USA in a couple years and they are not going to know what hit them.
When you read the Bopp lawsuit, the IGAs made a bad situation worse. It was far far better that they bank had to close your account if you did not comply.
@Bubblebustin
Yes, that is too good to be true and a misleading statement Let’s hope the judge renders his decision prior to September 15. The Conservative government is certainly not known for taking the high ground.
As George mentioned, Canada made a statement that they would not hand over any data until at least 15 September. The clock is ticking unfortunately. One has to watch one’s own back as the current government is not watching ours.
@George
Canadian banks only care about losing potential customers. They don’t care whether the IRS makes their customer’s lives a living hell – even if those customers aren’t USP’s.
@ nervousinvestor
I found this (riding by riding projections) …
http://www.threehundredeight.com/p/canada.html
More info here …
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/poll-tracker/2015/index.html
Results from 2011 election …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_by_riding_of_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2011
My riding is hopelessly devoted to the Cons … sigh.
This interesting information can be helpful, EmBee, though I’m in Alberta too so…
Hopefully, enough Albertans are as fed up with the federal Conservatives as they recently were with the provincial variety.
After reading several of the comments above, I wrote a glowing email to Tom Mulcair and my MP Paul Dewar, cc to Murray Rankin, thanking the NDP for their commitment to review and renegotiate the IGA if they form the next government.
I blind-copied that email to several present or former alleged US persons in Canada, whom I know are very concerned about the IGA and who are mulling over who to vote for (other than the Cons, none of these people are evenly slightly inclined to do that).
I urge anyone who knows a Canadian IGA-affected person who is not likely following all the threads on Brock or Sandbox closely or at all (there are folks like that, I know a few), who is a Canadian citizen and eligible to vote on October 19, and who as far as you know hasn’t decided yet who they will vote for, to forward Murray Rankin’s email reply to them. Also Trudeau’s if you wish, though the latter is so wishy-washy it probably would do the Liberals more damage than good if it got circulated, maybe that would be A Good Thing depending on your political views.
Yes I know Elizabeth May and the Greens have also been very outspoken on this issue, but the brutal reality confirmed in all the polls I’ve seen, is that the Greens are only likely to re-elect Elizabeth but are unlikely to elect any other candidate and may actually drain progressive votes away from non-Tory candidates in some closely-contested ridings, so I’m not advocating beating any drums for the Greens, though I understand why Green supporters and admirers of Elizabeth May (among whom I definitely count myself) might want to do that.
Every vote will count in this election, even in Tory-locked-in ridings (or allegedly so; the Alberta provincial Tories could tell a sad for them tale or two about that notion). Spreading the word that at least the NDP has taken a very forthright stance on the issue, may help tip Harper and crowd over the cliff. And, given that it took several months for Rankin to reply, and given that I’ve heard that Mulcair is trying to keep a relatively tight reign on his candidates though not as tight as Harper does, I think it’s quite safe to say Rankin’s email reflects NDP policy. If it doesn’t I’ll hear soon, because in my congratulatory email to Mulcair I pointedly included a full copy of Rankin’s email at the bottom, in the unlikely case I’m wrong and Mulcair didn’t know Rankin was writing this. If I hear anything about that, believe me you’ll hear back from me on that in this thread …
When I met with my Liberal candidate several months ago, she said she voted Green in the last federal election, because like me, she couldn’t bring herself to vote for either the Cons, NDP or Libs then, lol!
@Bubblebustin says
**Canadian banks only care about losing potential customers**
No… banks don’t give a crap about potential customers… just their bottome line… no matter what… They are more worried about their US branches…. they care very little about fellow canadians…
Yes, banks are bottom line thinkers, but banks need customers. That’s why they would have preferred to open the account and let the IRS sort out who’s a US person, even if it means the customer is hassled by the IRS. What’s the customer going to do, go to another bank and be turned away there too? But the IRS doesn’t want to expend the energy doing that so they’re telling the banks to turn customers away. Think about the optics of that when a Canadian who has nothing to do with the US whatsoever is told to take their business elsewhere.
@All – reposting from FATCA and Australia
The Australian Broadcast Corporation is a very popular news and media station in Australia.
Just spoke with the Australian Broadcast Corporation’s The Drum, editor Chip Rolley, born in the United States. He said that he was familiar with FATCA but questioned whether it would cause enough of a media stir…would the fact that America is chasing its tax dollars be of interest to the average viewer.
This is not just about chasing a tax dollar, it is about human rights, discrimination, privacy violation, being treated as a second class Australian Citizen and America’s overreach. Perhaps it is time for each of us to email him at the address provided with all of our concerns and the affect on US Persons and their families that reside in Australia and worldwide.
rolley.chip@abc.net.au
@ Au
Would Barbara’s archive of the SFC submissions be of any help? I’ve no idea which ones are from Australia but they are much easier searched there than in the SFC website.
http://fatca.eu.pn/
I’m trying to think of contributors here at Brock who are in Australia. There’s Gordian, Benedict Arnold, JC (DoubleTaxed), JacDak, Alby, Jane, EllenDownUnder and you. Does Admin. know of others?