[The following responses are to FATCA Letters to Leaders and MPs (March 2015)]
PART 1 — the NDP Party response
…cross-posted from Lynne Swanson post at MapleSandbox: NDP Party Response to Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (ADCS-ADSC)
“I have just received a response to ADCS on the letter we sent to the leaders five months ago. Here is the reply from Murray Rankin.
RE: US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
Thank you for writing to share your ongoing concerns regarding the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and the Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) between Canada and the United States designed to implement FATCA in Canada.
New Democrats are deeply troubled by the implications of FATCA and the associated IGA, and we are closely monitoring the litigation your organization has commenced against the Government of Canada.
From the beginning, many organizations raised the alarm that the IGA for the implementation of FATCA in Canada may violate the privacy rights of Canadians and could be subject to constitutional challenge.
The NDP has repeatedly raised concerns about the FATCA agreement that was negotiated behind closed doors and rushed through Parliament without proper consultation or examination.
Previously, New Democrats called on the Conservative government to acknowledge the broad concerns expressed by Canadians and civil society organizations regarding the implementation of this IGA. We asked the Conservative government to agree to remove it from omnibus Budget Bill C-31, which granted the Minister of National Revenue sweeping powers to make any regulation necessary to carry out the agreement.
It is my belief that the decision to rush this legislation through Parliament was reckless and, as a result, it lacks the safeguards needed to protect many of the rights that Canadians so dearly value.
New Democrats have repeatedly questioned Conservatives in the House of Commons and at the Standing Committee on Finance. It became abundantly clear that the Conservative government has very little understanding of the consequences of FATCA and has been tone deaf regarding the very real concerns of hundreds of thousands of Canadians.
Moving forward, New Democrats remain committed to ensure that Canadians’ voices are heard and that our laws are consistent with the constitution, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and Canadian sovereignty more broadly.
A New Democrat government will order a full and urgent review of the FATCA IGA to identify and address all measures that threaten the constitutional and privacy rights of all Canadians.
We will seek to reopen the IGA for renegotiation with the United States in order to address the serious concerns of Canadians and ensure that their rights are protected. We will do so in an open and transparent manner – instead of the secretive manner pursued by the Conservatives.
More broadly, we will ensure that all proposed legislation is subject to a more robust screening to ensure compliance with the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Conservatives have failed to uphold this duty, with the result that, in many instances, litigation was initiated that could have been avoided.
As noted above, New Democrats continue to closely watch the progress of your litigation against the Government of Canada.
We also understand that many people across Canada are now directly facing the consequences of the agreement. New Democrat Members of Parliament will continue to assist individuals access the information and resources they need regarding how the FATCA IGA affects them.
Please feel free to contact me with any concerns you may have.
Sincerely,
Murray Rankin
NDP Candidate for Victoria
NDP Deputy Critic for National Revenue “
****************
PART 2– the Liberal Party response
…also cross-posted from Lynne Swanson post at MapleSandbox: Liberal Party Response to Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (ADCS-ADSC)
“Because I posted the reply from the NDP via Murray Rankin in its own thread, I am doing the same with the Liberal response to ADCS via Justin Trudeau.
Dear Ms. Swanson:
Thank you for taking the time to write to me with your concerns regarding the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
The safeguarding of personal privacy has become an increasingly important issue to all Canadians. The government’s move to ensure that information is reported 2 the U.S. through Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) and not directly from the banks was a positive step; however, the implications of having the CRA report to a foreign government about Canadian citizens are still troublesome. The Liberal Party of Canada believes that the Conservative government’s efforts to safeguard the personal privacy of Canadians have been inadequate.
While the United States has the right to target tax evaders using offshore accounts, targeting hard working Canadians who pay taxes is unfair. The government of Canada has a responsibility to stand up for its citizens when foreign governments are encroaching on their rights. We believe that the deal reached between Canada and the U.S. is insufficient to protect affected Canadians.
Thank you once again for writing to me; I always appreciate it when Canadians take the time to share their concerns with me. It is through such exchanges of ideas and opinions that I can best represent not only my constituents, but all Canadians.
Sincerely
Justin J.P. Trudeau “
****************
PART 3 — Additional Clarification needed from Liberal Party Leader Justin Trudeau re his definitions in *A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian*
I (calgary411) am also putting into this post the email sent yesterday to my Liberal candidate and Liberal MP Scott Brison, asking them to get answers from their Party Leader, Justin Trudeau. Some may agree we need answers to these questions as well:
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 1:49 PM
To: Matt Grant ; Scott Brison
Subject: A question for the Liberal Party Leader and the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship ActDear Confederation Calgary Liberal Candidate and Honourable Liberal Member of Parliament Scott Brison,
Many Canadians were pleased to hear Mr. Trudeau’s new statements regarding Canadian citizenship equality, but some of us need further clarification.
For all *US Persons in Canada*, can you please get an answer from your Party Leader, Justin Trudeau, to the following specific questions. No political generalities please.
Mr. Trudeau — are there differences in *second-class Canadians* — the ones you refer to regarding the Bill C-24, Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act?
As part of the slippery slope now enabled in Canada — the march in legislation
– from Bill C-31 (making *US Persons in Canada* second-class to any others by virtue of place of birth of an individual or the individual’s parent(s)
– to Bill C-51, with definitions of *terrorist*
– to Bill C-24 to exile and banish certain of Canada’s second-class citizens (even if born in Canada),Do you consider US-deemed US citizens in Canada *US citizens who happen to reside in Canada* (including even those born in Canada and have never lived or had any benefit from the USA)?
or,
Do you consider US-deemed US citizens in Canada the very same as any other second-class Canadian as part of your statements
“Liberals will guarantee that all Canadians’ fundamental rights are respected as guided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”
“Canadian citizenship should not be conditional. A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.”
“All Canadians need to know that their government has their back.”?
Specific and straight answers to the above questions will help determine for many the way we will vote on October 19. I will pass Mr. Trudeau’s answer on to one-issue *US-deemed US Person* Canadians, who are now also deemed second-class citizens in Canada by the Conservative government.
We want to absolutely know from Mr. Trudeau if he will fight for our same rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms as those Charter rights of all other Canadians .
Thank you for your help in asking this question on our behalf.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Carol Tapanila
Calgary, AB
******************
Will also include … e-mail that Lynne Swanson sent to Justin Trudeau with a cc to her Liberal candidate.
Last week, you said “All Canadians have to know that the government has their back.”
You insisted the Conservative government’s Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act “devalues Canadian citizenship by creating two classes of citizenship.” You vowed to repeal that Act. You promised a Liberal government “will guarantee that all Canadians’ fundamental rights are respected as guided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”
So, why aren’t you taking such a strong stand against the FATCA Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) and the enabling law that supersedes all Canadian laws on the demands of a foreign bully?
Would a Liberal government “have the back” of Canadians born in the United States? Would a Liberal government repeal the IGA? If not, would a Liberal government amend the enabling legislation to protect Canadian citizens and residents born in the U.S.? Would a Liberal government restore full citizenship to Canadians born in the U.S.? Would a Liberal government “guarantee that all Canadians’ fundamental rights are respected as guided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?”
I know what your father would have done. He would have stood up for one million Canadians. He would have told the United States “You can’t FATCA Canada or Canadian citizens.” When the media asked how far he would go to have the back of Canadians, he would have said “Just watch me.” He would have guaranteed that Canadians born in the U.S. have their fundamental rights respected under the Charter.
What will you do? Are you ready to stand up to the Americans for Canadians? My vote depends on your answer.
@Calgary411
I agree that the NDP now need to make this a National Issue by educating the media and talking publicly on the matter.
@nervousinvestor – The dirty little truth is this is all being done by stealth. For example, the bank will publish the new terms & conditions in the newspaper with a cut off date, if you don’t complain – guess what you’ve signed up. You go to login to your internet banking and faced with a box to agree to new T&Cs with another link available if you wish to read them, click and you’re signed up.
Banks now CRS is coming. FATCA is here and at some point people are going to wise up and sue Governments to invalidate IGAs. In my opinion, the IGAs are only being used as a stepping stone to have direct FFI / IRS transfer using stealth changed T&Cs as the platform.
Invalidating IGAs have an important political message that will help wage the FATCA war, but somebody has to take on the banks as well to close that loophole. As a first step the public needs to be informed. This is the last thing the banks would want.
Has Mr Arvay looked into this aspect as well? For me this aspect is as equally troubling.
@ALL
Do we have a record as to who voted FOR the Omnibus bill containing FATCA and who voted against it ? and who merely copped a plea and either abstained or chose to be absent. I dont think that Obama’s favorite vote of “present” is available in Canada.
nervous investor and others,
https://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-31/ – Bill C-31, Economic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 1, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures (includes FAILED amendments and links to those votes)
https://openparliament.ca/votes/41-2/187/ June 9, 2014 – That Bill C-31, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures, {as amended}, be concurred in at report stage [with a further amendment/with further amendments] (Justin Trudeau, Liberal, voted NO. Thomas Mulcair, NDP, DID NOT VOTE. Elizabeth May, Green, voted NO)
https://openparliament.ca/votes/41-2/187/ June 12 – That the Bill be now read a third time and do pass (Justin Trudeau, Liberal, DID NOT VOTE. Thomas Mulcair, NDP – voted NO. Elizabeth May, Green, voted NO)
Queenston,
Speaking for myself, YES — this information is public on at Isaac Brock and MapleSandbox and should be passed on to our candidates! Could be with links and your own words included. Good luck in discussions with your local candidates — and with Party Leaders.
All candidates need to know that the IRS is telling Canada, NO, it’s they who get to decide who opens bank accounts in Canada. The IRS doesn’t want to have to weed out all those false-positives on account opening. Turn them away, they say:
http://www.bna.com/fatca-versus-igas-n17179934450/
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34116189
Perhaps a soft economy will hasten Stephen Harper’s departure.
I echo MuzzledNoMore’s thanks;
“Calgary and Blaze: Thank you both so much for bringing these letters to our attention. It leaves little doubt as to which party intends to actually *do* something substantive for us should they form the next government. In my riding (staunchly Conservative with little hope of change) my best strategy is to vote my conscience and put a big X beside the NDP.”
My riding is also staunchly Conservative. I also personally appreciate and would like to remind all of the early public and forthright work of Elizabeth May in obtaining that letter by Peter Hogg criticizing any FATCA IGA or negotiations and publishing it for all of us to see. She also did very admirable work with other opposition parliamentarians against the FATCA IGA enabling legislation in the Omnibus Bill C-31 hearings in 2014 – ex. https://openparliament.ca/debates/2014/5/28/elizabeth-may-10/only/ https://openparliament.ca/search/?q=fatca+Party:+%22Green%22.
May points out the issue of creating different classes of Canadians; “…….. we are being forced through an omnibus procedure and into committee tomorrow at clause by clause, and unless my amendments are accepted, we will once again have passed a piece of legislation that is discriminatory, treating Canadians of different classes in different ways, which offends section 15 of the Charter. We will have done that to accede to something that is not even accepted by the United States as a treaty, because it has not ratified it.”
https://openparliament.ca/debates/2014/5/28/elizabeth-may-10/
“..It is certainly remarkable that U.S. legislation has been accepted in Canada as having extraterritorial application. Canada is prepared to say okay. I do not know if this would be allowed if, say, Iran decided to pass legislation to say that anyone with an Iranian connection in Canada had to be treated differently than other Canadians..”
https://openparliament.ca/debates/2014/6/4/elizabeth-may-4/
There also was an admirable joint approach with MP Rankin.
https://openparliament.ca/debates/2014/6/4/murray-rankin-4/
I admire both of them greatly, and will always remember that MP Rankin took a large portion of his day to attend that 2014 ACA sponsored event in Toronto http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/29/may-2-2014-aca-sponsored-toronto-forumdebate-on-cbt-vs-rbt/, and made himself very available to hear our concerns in person.
@Brockers…..excuse me for barging into domestic Canadian affairs aka your election. I respect that the election is for Canadians……full stop.
Having said that, I think a further development can be made in the arguments to the political parties.
I think we are wrong for looking at this as an extraterritorial tax grab, as that IMO is only the window dressing.
What we have is “extraterritorial imposition of citizenship.”
This all goes back to the root……citizenship…….not taxes which is simply the leaf on the tree.
The USA has gotten the Government of Canada to defacto strip Canadian Citizens of their Canadian Citizenship leaving them with only a USA undergarment.
The core right of any Government is the ability to define its own citizens…….in its own territory.
The FATCA IGA strips and I mean strips, the Canadian Citizenship away from a person who had the misfortune to be born a few miles south like in Windsor.
On these boards Bubbles and I have had some good spirited and respectful bantor on the subject of so called dual citizenship. IMO, the term is false and is equally valid as a child born to a Roman Catholic and a Southern Baptist claiming they are “dual religion.” I stand firm in the belief that a Canadian Citizen resident in Canada with any clinging nationality can solely claim they are…….Canadian!!!
But now as we have had time to think in the “Brock Collective” it is very clear that a FATCA IGA is first about stripping away your Citizenship. That must be prevented and I pray that debate will be made in the next litigation phase.
The lawyer who claimed sovereignty was not given away……..my ass……he gave away the Canadian citizenship of a million people.
Can I vote for Sophie in’t Veld of the EU?
Just teasing. But I want to vote for a Canadian leader who’ll raise questions like these http://www.sophieintveld.eu/parliamentary-question-legality-of-intergovernmental-agreements-igas-on-fatca/ rather than some waffling and obfuscations.
@Calgary411
Thank you for the link to the votes on the FATCA tainted Bill. I am pleased to see that Liberals did not vote for it. Too many opposition were simply absent (or no vote). In fact it was ONLY Conservatives who voted for it with 2 Independents. So it seems we should work on the Liberals to give as clear a statement as the NDP. Vote only for those who voted NO re Bill C31. With preference to those with the best chance in each Riding to defeat Conservative candidates. And with weight given towards NDP for their clear statement. Elizabeth May also deserves special support.
http://harbourtimes.com/2015/08/28/harbour-view-fatca-me-no-fatca-you/
Thanks Blaze for your persistence in obtaining a letter from the NDP as to their position on FATCA. This letter is much more clear than the correspondence received from the Liberals. For example, NDP Murray Rankin says,
“A New Democrat government will order a full and urgent review of the FATCA IGA to identify and address all measures that threaten the constitutional and privacy rights of all Canadians.”
Now if we could obtain further clarification from the Liberals it would assist many on how to vote in this election. I am voting strategically and ABC in my riding but will persist in trying to find out more about party policies on FATCA. It’s really necessary to keep the lawsuit going regardless. In spite of lack of news coverage at least the NDP have been aware of this legal action by ADCS.
@ Queenston
I used a partial quote from MP Rankin’s letter when I sent a FATCA primer to our NDP candidate yesterday. My thanks to MuzzledNoMore for providing the base to build my letter on. I also included a link to her introduction to FATCA article for a more detailed analysis. I suggested that our candidate talk about FATCA because the more people who become aware of it, the more single issue voters (like me) there will be and the more votes will be drawn away from the Conservatives. Unfortunately we’re in a riding that votes 80% Con but it never hurts to spread the word.
@Pat Canadian: Before I received the e-mail from Murray Rankin, I sent this e-mail to Justin Trudeau (as an individual, not as a representative of ADCS).
I sent Murray Rankin’s e-mail to my Liberal candidate who was initially trying to get an answer on FATCA from the Liberal partner–but she seemed to give up several weeks ago.
I found this little gem of a website in a comment at harperman.ca. Canadian Brockers might enjoy listening in to some of these podcasts.
http://www.canadawhocares.org/podcasts/
My letter to Pam include the Murray Rankin’s letter to Blaze followed by this:
“As you are probably aware, we are expecting Justice Martineau to make a determination as to whether the FATCA IGA is enforceable in Canada by September 13. A decision in favour of the plaintiffs will assure that Gwen, Ginny and millions of Canadians like us aren’t relegated to 2nd-class citizenship because of the agreement the Harper government made with US.
Does Justin Trudeau represent us too in his stand against 2nd-class citizenship in Canada? It would be nice to hear him say it and speak out against the FATCA IGA as the NDP has. Did you know that the IRS forbids anyone who doesn’t certify they aren’t US person from opening a bank account in Canada now? The IRS overruled the previous provision Canada had which allowed the account to be opened anyway, with or without a certification. That means ANY Canadian who refuses to say they aren’t a US person for whatever reason can’t open a bank account in Canada. The Gestapo, I mean, IRS now has the final word on who gets to open accounts in Canada! Thank-you Mr Harper, the camel’s body is now in the tent.”…
How everyday Canadians aren’t outraged by this, I don’t know. I suppose many of us will need to be turned away by the banks before that happens.
Steve, It’s time for you to leave.
The podcast with Edgar Schmidt is particularly revealing …
http://www.canadawhocares.org/blog/2015/8/18/edgar-schmidt
@EmBee
That looks like a great site, one that would be valuable to Canadians long after Harper is gone. Perhaps we’ll have Harper (and the Internet) to thank for the biggest movement for government transparency Canada’s ever seen.
We must be vigilant, no matter who’s in power.
Hi guys, not sure best place to post this. Just heard from my accountant in NZ that my company registration must now state my country of birth! Wow, discrimination much? What the hell does that have to do with anything in being a NZ citizen running an NZ company?
As of 1 July the Companies Office require the following information to be provided when we file your company Annual Return:-
Date and Place of birth for each company director
Sickening as I am no longer a US citizen and don’t identify with that country whatsoever.
@Blaze
Great that you sent a letter to Justin Trudeau and have been in contact with your Liberal candidate on this. I also sent a letter to Justin Trudeau and my Liberal candidate, as an individual. Good idea to send on Murray Rankin’s correspondence to your Liberal candidate. I will do that as well.
Funny thing, today I had a phone message from my NDP candidate here in BC, interested in talking about FATCA and the IGA. I had tried to contact her about this several weeks back. We will be speaking later this week.
@Bubblebustin Glad to hear you are in touch with your Liberal candidate as well about Murray Rankin’s email to Lynne.
RE: ” Did you know that the IRS forbids anyone who doesn’t certify they aren’t US person from opening a bank account in Canada now? ” Maybe we could all add this outrageous information to our correspondence and spread the news.
Sent this to every NDP member of Parliament.:
RE FATCA and NDP Position
Thank you! NDP. One million + votes up for grabs.
—————————————————-
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/08/31/how-will-us-deemed-us-persons-in-canada-vote-on-october-19th-there-is-now-an-adcs-adsc-reply-from-the-ndp-party-to-compare-to-the-reply-from-the-liberal-party/
This letter is much more clear than the correspondence received from the Liberals. For example, NDP Murray Rankin says,
“A New Democrat government will order a full and urgent review of the FATCA IGA to identify and address all measures that threaten the constitutional and privacy rights of all Canadians.”
Now if we could obtain further clarification from the Liberals it would assist many on how to vote in this election. I am voting strategically and ABC in my riding but will persist in trying to find out more about party policies on FATCA. It’s really necessary to keep the lawsuit going regardless. In spite of lack of news coverage at least the NDP have been aware of this legal action by ADCS.
PatCanadian,
Congratulations on getting that phone call from your NDP candidate who is interested in talking about FATCA. I am still waiting to hear from mine — Kirk Heuser who is billed as a journalist and previously worked for CBC – https://twitter.com/kirkheuser. Nothing yet.
@Joe Smith My friend,, you hit the nail on the head. I will say that one million votes and other Canadians if your party takes the time to educate Canadians on what Harper has done to Canada. This could be the cliff that the other parties can push Stephen Harper and the Conservatives over to win the election.This is a political hot potato that will be in favor of the other parties if the news spreads fast enough. Give this issue election weight and watch how fast it gets out!!