Accidental American — from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
…Not to be confused with the book The Accidental American…
An accidental American is a citizen of a country other than the United States who may also be considered a U.S. citizen under U.S. nationality law but is not aware of having U.S. status, or has only become aware of it recently during adulthood.[1] Accidental Americans’ U.S. citizenship arises due to their parents’ ties to the United States rather than their own choices: they may be born in their own country but to one U.S. citizen parent who emigrated from the United States, or they may be born in the U.S. to parents residing in the country temporarily for work or study and then return to their own country in their early childhood, with few if any memories of the United States. The term may also sometimes be applied to people who definitely are not U.S. citizens but have some other sort of connection with the country, for example green card holders who moved back to their country of origin and let their green cards expire without formally cancelling their U.S. immigration status, or non-U.S. citizens married to Americans abroad. Such tenuous connections to the United States began to become a more salient issue in the late 2000s due to Internal Revenue Service crackdowns which were ostensibly aimed at tax evaders hiding assets in secrecy jurisdictions but ended up having much broader effects on people with U.S. citizenship who resided in other countries, as well as their families.[2][3]
CONTENTS
- 1 Nationality law
- 2 Awareness of U.S. citizenship
- 3 Tax consequences
- 4 Giving up U.S. citizenship
- 5 Proposed remedies
- 6 References
- 7 Further reading
I can see a few minor glitches, but whoever entered this subject into Wikipedia knew his or her stuff.
This Wikipedia article, though, makes no mention of http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/ OR any other blog (like http://maplesandbox.ca/) NOR does it have anything about Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (ADCS-ADSC), the Canadian litigation on behalf of two Canadian Accidental Americans: http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/ OR http://citizenshipsolutions.ca/ — that site should be a first stop for anyone to determine whether or not he or she actually WOULD BE considered a US-defined US citizen subject to US citizenship-based taxation and FATCA laws in the countries they are resident.
******************
“The Nuremberg test or the Harry Potter test”
Brock commenter, George, asked for a front page article so we can all contribute on who escapes the FATCA web and who does not in order to show how it is so DISCRIMINATORY.
This Wikipedia article touches on some of the ways this happens, how some are identifiable and how some are now (and may go under the scattered and thus unfair FATCA radar, *though I say good for them !for the consequences of such are dire!) …
Under a strict reading of U.S. nationality law, consular registration is not required in order for a child born outside of the U.S. to a qualifying parent to “become” a U.S. citizen; the child is a U.S. citizen from the moment of birth. However, for practical reasons, if a child’s birth is not reported to a U.S. consulate or United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, the child would not have any proof of U.S. citizenship and the U.S. government might remain unaware of the child’s citizenship status. Retired U.S. State Department official Andrew Grossman wrote in 2007 that in cases of “doubtful nationality” in which a child’s derivative U.S. citizenship remained undocumented and unreported to the U.S. government, the child was not regarded as a U.S. citizen either for tax or other purposes, and he expected that it would be quite difficult for tax authorities to make determinations of jus sanguinis citizenship on their own.[9] Karen Christensen, also of the U.S. State Department (Deputy Assistant Secretary for Overseas Citizens Services, Bureau of Consular Affairs), stated that “it is the process of being documented as a U.S. citizen that would result in official government recognition of the child’s U.S. citizenship status”. This ambiguity has resulted in American emigrant parents, particularly those married to people of other nationalities, choosing not to report the births of their children born in other countries to U.S. consulates, in the hopes that this would allow the children to escape notice by the U.S. government.[10] Mark Matthews of Caplin & Drysdale stated, “When clients who have lived abroad for years come in, concerned about whether they have an obligation under FATCA, they sometimes react to the suggestion that their kids might be American the way one might react to a horrible medical diagnosis.“[11]
When describing an “accidental American” to someone the other day, I mentioned that my born in Canada son would be considered a US citizen by the U.S. government. She suggested I contact a journalist she knew who’s doing a story about accidental Americans. My response was that I wouldn’t do an interview like that without asking my son if it was ok with him (he’s 30). Unfortunately, in order to do so I would have to explain to him how he is technically a US citizen, something he currently has no knowledge of or interest in being. Now this is a situation where ignorance is truly bliss because should I reveal this to him and his bank asks him if he’s a USC, he might hesitate to say he isn’t – which could result in the bank telling him to go and find out! That would only lead to him finding out he’s a USC, a disaster!!!
It seems that as a result of birthplace, some accidentals avoid becoming 2nd-Class citizens in Canada. How interesting – and discriminatory FATCA is indeed.
I was hoping we could claim Benjamin Natanyahu as one of our own, but his mom ran away just before he was born and went to Israel so he would be a Natural Born Citizen of Israel. His father stayed here because he was a college professor and needed to teach the next school session. Benjamin lived here all his youth and went to school here. He worked with Mitt Romney and only went to Israel when he was needed in the IDF. he had a brother who was also in the IDF and was the only soldier lost when the israeli army went to Uganda on the Entebe raid. Benjamin was a blood and guts soldier who will do whatever it takes to save Israel from Iran. So we can’t claim him and elect him president here,,,, darnit.
It just drives me crazy when it says that there would be a “loss” of 403 million dollars if Obama lets the accidental americans go as of 2016. It is NOT A LOSS. It wasn’t theirs to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cannot lose something you have no right to. Drives me nutz.
When you Google ‘Accidental American’ it comes up forth. Perhaps someday it’ll migrate to number one. This will add legitimacy to the argument if you can tell people new to the issue to Google it and read it on Wiki.
Perhaps Mr Stack will put up his own page about his myths.
Mr Tidewell
I remember when some idiot here called you a Nazi, because you were for Fair tax. You do remember my defense. I forget to include Ludwig von Mises in the list. His family might be the only von (German or Austrian nobility) Jewish family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises
Thanks, Don
Moving up! I just searched with Google and the Wikipedia article is second to Flott & Co — their discussion of *Accidental American* is on page 2 of that index.
“When clients who have lived abroad for years come in, concerned about whether they have an obligation under FATCA, they sometimes react to the suggestion that their kids might be American the way one might react to a horrible medical diagnosis” – Ha! So well put!!
Some people will go to great extents to claim US citizenship:
http://shusterman.com/citizenshipthroughparents.html
In all the mistakes that my family made is the story told earlier at Brock of my now husband who regretted and subsequently renounced the US citizenship he was able to claim this way through his grandparents who came from Finland to Minnesota and subsequently settled in North Dakota (rather than from his dad who was born in North Dakota but who moved with his family to Saskatchewan as a toddler — and who died never ever realizing he was a US citizen! A fellow working musician who also had no work pension for his later years advised him that he could play music into the sunset of his life in the much bigger playing ground of the US because his dad was born in the US — he almost got it right but by many years and a generation).
@Calgary411
I’ve never met a human being who hasn’t made a mistake, have you? I’ve met many who can’t admit they have – a sign of weak character, IMO.
I think we should acknowledge another type of Accidental American, actually more of a “Taxidental American” – someone who’s renounced but hasn’t taken the necessary steps to end their tax-filing obligations to the US.
Further to my comment and relevant for many reading about *Accidental Americans*…
I just went to the Ottawa Embassy of the United States *Information for Canadians* page. I see the following now on that page:
Please listen to the above linked John Richardson interview with Andy Grossman with this in mind.
There are links here at Brock where we tried but failed to get the Department of State to confirm that there was a CLAIM to US citizenship. Is this statement on their site that confirmation?
I realize I may be missing something given the advice I’ve been given by the Department of State / Legal and information given to the Washington, DC US immigration/nationality lawyer I hired regarding my son’s status. This Ottawa US Embassy paragraph is a statement I’ll take to the bank — if that need ever arises.
“Some people will go to great extents to claim US citizenship:
http://shusterman.com/citizenshipthroughparents.html”
For someone who wants to live in the US, US citizenship is an advantage. Furthermore Brian Olsen was able to claim it by birth instead of naturalization, so he didn’t have to promise to help invade Iraq (or whoever’s getting it next).
Also if someone from say North Korea gets a chance to immigrate to the US, they’ll surely be better off as US citizens than as North Korean citizens.
Brian Olsen’s parents must be regretting that they obtained US passports though, if they’re still living in Canada.
“I’ve never met a human being who hasn’t made a mistake, have you? I’ve met many who can’t admit they have – a sign of weak character, IMO.”
On US tax returns you can’t admit you’ve made mistakes. Even if you have so much experience catching your own mistakes on previous returns when you reviewed them a year later, even if you know you don’t believe that you beat the odds against making mistakes this year that you haven’t caught yet, it’s illegal to admit that you’ve made mistakes. You’re required to declare under penalty of perjury that to the best of your knowledge and belief that you got everything true and correct this time.
It’s the same law that prohibits you from declaring that a US employer lied on a W-2 or other country’s lawyer lied on a T-4 or 源泉徴収票. It’s the same law that prohibits you from declaring that your estimate of interest income in a bank account is an estimate, when no one can find the passbook (the bank later discovered that they had failed to return the passbook). You have to sign the preprinted jurat even when you know it’s false.
“or other country’s lawyer lied” should be “or other country’s employer lied”. If only the law would permit me to declare that I’ve made mistakes…
I’m sure if Brian’s parents were alive today they’d be thanking him profusely for the honour of becoming US taxpayers.
I spoke yesterday evening with a American woman who has no sympathy for accidental americans in Canada. She says the parents should have kept up with the citizenship obligations of their child if they were going to have them born in the US (border babies). I explained that the US keeps changing the laws. Are parents thus obligated for the resr of the child’s life to follow tax and immigration laws for their children? She did not budge from her provincialism. My disgust with Americans only grows.
I think we need another category. “Relinquished-before-they-invented-these-stupid-“CLN’s”-orFATCA-and-no-damn-way-I’m-gonna-come-into-your-den-by-applying-for-one” Americans. I am very lucky to have relinquished before the rules changed and then did so again just to be safe in the early 90’s (1st time naturalisation then job). I’ve been asked at the border about it a few times, but they’ve never insisted much. I think they think that they are announcing some amazing good news that I should be grateful for. Just smile and say “thanks but no thanks” but offer no arguments. No upside there.
No bank or insurance company has ever asked where I was born. By random chance, my spouse is in the same boat as I am (but we never knew it until we were engaged). It’s a dirty little family secret we don’t tell the kids. Strangely enough, they seem to assume we are both native born since we both grew up here in Canada. Ignorance is bliss. My guess is that “underground” ex-Amercians and their accidental American children far outnumber the official name and shame list. I run into them all the time. It’s the sort of thing you find out accidentally after you’ve known or worked with someone a while. These days, I have a quiet conversation with people to warn them about not advertising the fact.
This dual nationality question is a disease inflicted upon me by another country so that commentary in Wikipedia is only too true! I’ll have this affliction for life and there’s nothing to be done about it. The US is not about to live up to its moniker of “Land of the Free” any time soon. It far prefers the myth to the harsh reality of threatening pensioners, disabled people and children with their feared passport. Besides, they have so many other tax problems affecting so many more people that folks like us are flies on the windscreen. Ginny and Gwen’s case may brighten things up some though. Life will go on.
I have not bothered asking for a CLN and won’t in a million years put my family through the risk of picking a fight with State or IRS on their own turf to see if they agree with me. I know that I agree with myself and can self-certify any FATCA form without qualms. If the border gets uncomfortable, it’s not a big hardship to simply stop crossing it. I hardly ever do as it is.
That’s how I deal with my diagnosis. Others have their own ways.
@Petros I was at a family function 2 weeks ago with both side of my in laws family. My brother in laws new wife’s father and I were talking about Fatca and the conservatives. He says he is clearly voting conservative in the federal election. I told him that because of the despicable way Canadians were treated, I think anyone voting Con is a fool. He then said I called him a fool and it was “game on” between us. I told him not to put words in my mouth and I merely stated my opinion. Well, he says he doesn’t believe me about Fatca and his daughter will have nothing to worry about.I told him that his daughter’s child support and full income will be taxed by the USA and the fact they recently sold their home for over 450,000 will have capital gains on it and that they will both pay US taxes now. His exact words were ” they can’t do that”. Well, the moral of this story is, with some people you simply CAN’T FIX STUPID!
John Dunne, thanks for your comment / your way of coping with this absurdity.
The disease of *Accidental Americans*, the epitome of the DISCRIMINATION of George’s request for discussion on *who escapes the FATCA web and who does not in order to show how it is so discriminatory*.
Petros,
The sadness of the too-frequent exceptional thinking like that of the American woman you spoke with compared with the Accidental American’s non-choice of US citizenship — a CLAIM to US citizenship if their facts permit rather than automatic acquisition, an OPT-IN rather than an OPT-OUT. Choice rather than entrapment. How can such persons not see and put themselves in the shoes of others?
A pox.
And should it come to be that Gwen and Ginny are successful in blocking the IGA, the vast majority may never know the bullet they dodged, and the naysayers such as the one you met, NativeCanadian, may just have a flippant ‘see I told you it was no big deal and would never happen’ attitude toward the whole affair.
It’s only because people are aware AND willing to do something about that things will ever change. Awareness and denial cut for nothing.
Well said, bubblebustin.
How often have I gotten the feeling – no big deal?
Also cutting for nothing — awareness but leaving any work for change up to others. Those do have to be in some kind of denial.
@Calgary411
I think a lot of people deny themselves the ability to make a difference by believing that they’re either not powerful, rich, smart, courageous or effected enough to change things.
I know I’ve mentioned this before that had this all happened years ago when I was a struggling single parent, I probably would have ostriched thinking there will surely be others who are smarter and more powerful than me who could stop this thing before it got to me. That said, there was no internet and Isaac Brock back then – a gathering place (warts and all) where we collectively have become a force to be reckoned with – from wearing the right T-shirt to a political rally to raising the necessary funds to take the Canadian government to court. Amazing, really what we’ve managed to do together over the course of a few years. A few pot-shots from the sidelines are almost laughable when you put them in the context of what’s been achieved here, and the real adversaries we have come to face – which are both the US and Canadian governments and its banking systems!