As a child I heard my dad use this expression , “Everyone and his brother”–to say that a large amount of people will be at a certain store at a certain hour, so we were going to go at a different time.
I had to relinquish my US citizenship in 2011. I have told my sisters. One of my sisters is politically active. Neither give a rat’s tush about what has happened to me. Both are democrats. My brother doesn’t give a damn about politics and doesn’t vote. He gives less than a rodent’s hiney about my problems since he not infrequently has his own concerns with the IRS, as do all Homelanders.
Can we be surprised that the Senate Finance committee downplayed the 347 submissions regarding FATCA, most of which came from “US citizens” abroad? If we cannot get our brothers and our sisters to write to their representatives, Congress will dismiss our pleas out of hand. But how do we mobilize the members of our own family. My own experience, and what I’ve heard from others, is that our families care a little about our situation than Barack Obama cares for his own brother living in Kenyan poverty. So how do we mobilize people who think we are crazy or have their own problems and no time to put into lobbying their government on our behalf. I believe it can’t be done–but perhaps others have more empathetic brothers and sisters. I certainly don’t have siblings who empathize with my situation; apparently, neither does George Obama.
Barack Obama’s ‘half-brother discovered in Kenya, living on a dollar a month’
I guess I won’t share this directly on my Facebook, since my siblings will just tell me I really am nuts.
Thanks for this, Petros. It is real — at least for me.
I have one US sister who is very concerned, has donated to ADCS and has signed petitions. She thinks she is not capable of writing letters. I worry about her worrying about me on top of other things in her life so I have to be careful about how I express what I feel about her country — as I worry how that will affect her. She generally agrees with me and has been a great personal support, now and always in my life.
The rest of my family members, both siblings and US relatives beyond, haven’t a clue or a concern (even though they’ve been advised on some level) — other than I have some kind of tax problem and it’s with the US! My parents are gone and knew nothing of any of this and that their Canadian daughter and grandkids are considered *US citizens who happen to reside in Canada*.
I *assume* my friends think pretty much the same – she has some kind of a tax problem but it isn’t mine, not my problem – I have problems of my own to worry about (and they do). It is too draining to maintain a former care-free relationship with friends who have listened but don’t want to hear more. To be honest, I wouldn’t want to listen to me either! I think it is the much the same for $$$ to ADCS-ADSC. There are so many worthy things that ask for our limited dollars that this cause is not right up there on their priorities for donating some spare cash — it is my priority, but it is not the priority of others not involved.
It IS OUR problem. People can’t very well see past us to the bigger human rights issues and US theft from the country they live in. And, of course, they believe that anything that fights *tax evasion* must be a good program.
I am grateful that my husband (somewhat) understands — his patience with me has been phenomenal, but I do push the limits there. Life has certainly changed — as I said early on in this, it has taken away the *joy*. I work on that aspect, but I must confess it needs a lot more work!
Those I know in America are staunch Obama fans. They consider him some kind of hero. There might be an odd republican among them, but they are usually wealthy. Basically I know this from what they “like” on Facebook. We don`t talk politics much (although I certainly do with people I know in Europe). This has evolved…. because whatever I do say keeps upsetting them. If I say how sorry I feel for the veterans of war with a loss of a limb or PTSD, its like sticking your finger in a beehive. They get really angry for not feeling the “patriotism” like I should for the honour of the vets. – similar to Vietnam. In my view they are casualties of wars which should never have happened in the first place. I`m not very popular with my american contacts anymore. It is actually a strange feeling to be so maligned for something which is so unjust. Somehow they just seem brainwashed to me. And similar to people with personality disorders, they have whitewashed themselves- and thereby rid themselves of any guilt or misbehaviours. Like we have said: no shame.
But I think the most important conversation one should have with them concerns CBT.
And seeing that they want the money over there because otherwise somebody they know might die in a car accident due to poor roads, they certainly wont agree with me that CBT is wrong – and even if they did see that we don`t use the roads we are supposed to be paying for, it would be a weak acknowledgement without much action behind it. Come to think of it- America is full of panic. They feel this terrorist threat behind every bush. Every angry teenage nut job who goes out and shoots 3 people is considered proof positive that America is at war with the rest of the world. So I think they also feel they need our money for protection within their own boarders. ( Funny- first time I have thought of that. Maybe their biggest fear is that when bankrupt, they will no longer have the means to protect themselves from the muslim army waiting to invade them?)
Oops- that was posted while I was writing it. I was just editing and it popped on to IBS. I have no idea how that happened- I just know I never pressed submit.
Polly, thank you for posting (even if by accident 😉 You are not alone – many of us have had the same experiences. Maybe you could try turning the situation around: what would happen if the EU demanded that all Americans with a Greek ancestor contribute to refinancing Greece, the cradle of democracy?
@Jayne
LOL Thats an ongoing conversation. Everybody over here IS financing Greece and arguing about it.
I believe that the Democrats and Republicans hate each other to the point that each would rather have anarchy than be ruled by the other.
Until Americans realize that partisanship is ruining the country and restoring Liberty is their only choice for survival, bi-partisan issues like ours will be wildly unpopular.
The facts are as I have found out is that no one cares about those affected about FATCA… not one person I know and care for, cares….Not one. I hear – “that is too bad but that is the way it is.”
There are Canadians I know who don’t give a hoot about bill C-51 which makes many of us terrorists. They don’t understand and don’t want to understand it,.. not one bit…. People are walking around in their own little worlds. Many have big problems, no jobs, divorce , kids or spouse or parents sick or they themselves.
Politics is a stupid circus. The Republican clown car obviously shows it. .. Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are best friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .
and so are their daughters.
We been betrayed by Harper and his corrupt government.
The only sane and honest one is Bernie Sanders….and I think he has some autism in him to keep him so consistent all these years.
You think those elites give a dam about the little people like us? They have their secret societies like Bilderberg.
Thank goodness there are organizations that will not give up like the Canadian Counsel and IBS.
K street intersects with Wall street but OWS is still out there in various forms. The Koch Brothers are not going to give up. People have been this way in America since before the American revolution. Religion and class war fare has existed always in America. I been reading history lately. and not much has changed..
I look forward to the ADCS lawsuit going to court..
May the force be with us. and Justice be done.
We have a choice to give up or fight in our own way. I contribute to the cause.
@Petros
With the exception of my parents, the rest of my family members in the Homeland are apathetic about me having to renounce. In most of their eyes, Obama still walks on water.
The harsh reality is that we (expats) are on our own. Our home governments don’t give a rats arse about protecting us either, hence the IGAs. The banks’ interests as well as our governments’ cushy (but fear based) relations with the USA trump protecting US place of birthers from persecution.
Malcolm X supposedly said: “Nobody can give you freedom. … If you’re a man, you take it.”
That is what we are doing. Every single renunciation and every single lawsuit is a step toward the freedom of expats.
“Every angry teenage nut job who goes out and shoots 3 people is considered proof positive that America is at war with the rest of the world.”
Yes, America is at war with the rest of the world.
“Hey Dad! You’re driving on the 401, right? Watch out, I just heard on the radio there’s a car driving the wrong way.”
“Thanks son, but it’s not just one, it’s thousands of them!”
“Maybe you could try turning the situation around: what would happen if the EU demanded that all Americans with a Greek ancestor contribute to refinancing Greece”
Americans of Greek ancestry would complain, but no other Americans would.
Meanwhile, the story’s been done better, mentioning someone with Kenyan ancestry.
The wound is festering from the outside in. Homelanders will only pay attention when they are subject to a FATCA law just like the rest of us. Don’t laugh, it could happen. I hope not but they way things are going anything is possible.
“Homelanders will only pay attention when they are subject to a FATCA law just like the rest of us.”
Actually they are, but most of them don’t notice because their only bank accounts are in the same country where they live and work.
GATCA would get their attention though. “You have a British ancestor? 30% withholding unless you prove that you’re compliant with the UK. You have a French ancestor? Another 30%. A German ancestor? An Italian ancestor? Hey guess what, 120% of your interest income is going to be withheld, and if you don’t pay all of it then penalties will confiscate 5 times the amount of money you have in your account. And that’s not going to go away even when we close your account.”
The story about Obama’s brother is not new, it has been out there for much longer than I knew of CBT, FATCA and FBAR.
@Polly @Norman Diamond About funding Greece: yes we are doing so in Europe, but collectively . Nobody is forcing Greeks living in other European countries to pay additional taxes on their income where they actually live (although Greece is chasing funds held abroad in much the same way as the US was in the UBS and other scandals– this probably only has to do with people who are not living out of the country of Greece). As far as I know, nobody is expecting the Greeks living elsewhere in Europe or even in Switzerland to give up deductions for commuting, health care premiums, mandatory Swiss pension (2nd Pillar), supplementary pension (3rd Pillar) or taxing unemployment compensation at a higher rate than what our non USP neighbors are expected to pay.
If a progressive tax system is supposed to work and tax people according to their means, it needs to do so in a manner where rates and deductions are negotiated in each country through the local political and administrative processes– however imperfect that process may be.
Imposing a second system on a particular class of individuals, especially where that second system is incompatible with the local economic system, tax system, and current state of economic affairs, is unjust and results in perverse effects that defeat the market system by denying access to a level playing field for that particular class of individuals.
@Norman Diamond Speaking of Dad driving the wrong way on the 401, this is off the subject, but I couldn’t help thinking of this sequence of Steve Martin and John Candy:
I’ve written a post but don’t know how to become an IBS author. Can someone post this for me as a post, not a comment? Thanks.
It’s not the roads! A plea for stronger arguments against Citizenship-Based Taxation.
Posted by Pink Jelly.
Time and again, when i have read arguments against Citizenship-Based Taxation (CBT). I have seen the point made that US expats “don’t use the roads.” This is a very lame argument that is unlikely to sway homelanders to see our point of view.
Roads are not something most people think about as a benefit of citizenship. Also (I think) they are often funded by the states, by highway tolls, by property taxes and not by the federal government.
The real benefits of US citizenship for most homelanders are Welfare, Unemployment Insurance, Food Stamps, Obamacare and myriad other programs that put money in their pockets, food on the table and, for many people, provide free or very cheap health care. Programs that we expats pay for but are not eligible for.
If you’re, say, an expat teacher and you lose your job, the US govt does absolutely nothing to help you cope with your ordeal.
Other real benefits of US citizenship, such as the ability to get a 10 year India visa, are explicitly prohibited to US expats. You have to be a resident of the US as well as a citizen to get one. (Did the US state department deliberately pressure India to make this condition, as a way to screw expats out of another benefit? Somebody please investigate.)
So what benefits of citizenship do we have? Is the right to pay $50 to the US consulate to notarize a document –something that usually costs $3 to $5 in the US — a benefit? Or is it just a ripoff? The same question must be asked about the right to pay $2,350 for the benefit of renouncing our precious citizenship.
CBT is indeed a human rights violation. The US, which is so quick to accuse other nations (the ones that don’t follow US orders) of human rights abuses is in fact one of the world’s premier human rights abusers and we are its victims.
So I make this request: sharpen your arguments against CBT. It’s not that we don’t use the roads. It’s that we are tired of being used and abused when we get nothing in return.
@jefferson d tomas
“Imposing a second system on a particular class of individuals, especially where that second system is incompatible with the local economic system, tax system, and current state of economic affairs, is unjust and results in perverse effects that defeat the market system by denying access to a level playing field for that particular class of individuals.”
Yes, it’s called Fatca, and it simply doesn’t work.
Regarding Greece, a Greek wherever in the EU must be treated equally. Imposing a citizenship-based tax by Greece will be unacceptable by other Member States if one has been living there for years. What about US-born Greek citizens living in the EU? Double taxation is outrageous, inhumane as well as unjustifiable, but “treble” taxation? I mean, really…
On the other hand, most Greek MPs who have been milking the system for decades live in the northern and coastal suburbs of Athens. Hunt them down and confiscate all their properties. Case closed.
Civil Conflict, Civil Wars, Insurrection or Demands for Justice …. in all these one will find family members on both sides of the debate / conflict … often, many are misinformed or uninformed and too lazy or preoccupied to take the time and effort to seek understanding of what is happening around them. Sad but true. None of this means that one should stand down from demanding Justice (Just Laws Fairly Enforced) ….. peacefully but as loudly as one can. One can argue that it is never right to take arms against one’s Government as did the American people in the 1700s (Criminality ? Terrorism ? Insurrection ?) … but that depends on the nature of the Government …. Tyrannical or otherwise … and that is why I see the Freedom to Bear Arms as an essential element in any Civilized Nation … but that is another subject altogether with which many here will disagree and should not cloud the debate on this Society’s web site. How did I meander so far in one paragraph ?
@PinkJelly @Duality
Not sure that I have seen you commenting before but it lifts my heart to see more names commenting on this web site. I hope that one of the administrators can aid you, PinkJelly to become an author … I have not yet risen to that level.
I find that the one thing that gets through, but only with people that I am close enough to talk about my personal finances, is if people are aware that we are not allowed to do what they can do. My father suggested that I buy some mutual funds for my retirement, since that has worked very well for my parents, but I explained that I couldn’t and why, and that got him thinking that something was wrong. Then he said, well, I’m sure that Obama will fix this problem, since he really likes Obama (although not nearly as much as he likes Sanders and Warren), but then I calmly explained that the Democrats have shown little interest in getting rid of citizenship-based taxation. When I wrote a careful letter to Senator Warren about some deeply disturbing injustices, I got an irrelevant form letter five months later. Despite being a really strong Democrat, he was open-minded enough to look into the matter and find that Rand Paul and a group of Canadians were doing most of the fighting.
Or my best friend, whose family was heavily involved in the Warren campaign last time. We were talking about finances and she said that what I needed to do to organize my finances was set up a trust. So I explained why that was a non-starter. She understands a bit about the financial knots I am tied up in and why I am going once my parents go.
I think this strategy only works with friends who are in a similar or better off situation, though, and who have some understanding of how one needs to save for retirement. It doesn’t get them writing to Congress, but at least it gets them thinking. Few people write individually crafted letters to Congress about any issue.
I suspect that one of the problems is that many Americans aren’t going to be sympathetic because they don’t have much themselves. According to CBS News in 2014: “The median retirement account balance for all working-age households in the U.S. is $3,000, and $12,000 for near-retirement households, according to the National Institute on Retirement Security.” Over a third of Americans of working age and 14% of Americans entering retirement had no savings. (Scary figures, although actually not as bad as Britain’s. I really can’t afford to sort out two countries’ pensions problems). Convincing my brother-in-law, who thinks that all investments products are a con because he lost money in the dot.com bubble, that not being able to buy mutual funds is a problem would be a waste of time.
Wouldn’t Obama’s half-brother in some way be a “US Person” and therefore subject to Fatca?
CBT FAQ2:
https://www.penflip.com/lenxdart/cbt-faq-2
According to this link, how would that be, Duality?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama
George Hussein Onyango Obama
Youngest half-brother of Barack Obama, born c. 1982, son of Barack Obama, Sr.[138] and Jael Otieno. (She has since moved to Atlanta, Georgia as a full-time resident.)[139][140] George was six months old when his father died in an automobile accident, after which he was raised in Nairobi by his mother and a French step-father. His mother took him to South Korea for two years while she was working there.[139] Returning to Kenya, George Obama “slept rough for several years,”[141] until his aunt gave him a six-by-eight foot corrugated metal shack in the Nairobi slum of Huruma Flats.[139]
As of August 2008, George Obama was studying to become a mechanic.[139] He received little attention until featured in an article in the Italian-language edition of Vanity Fair in August 2008 during the US presidential campaign. This portrayed him as living in poverty, shame, and obscurity.[142] The article quoted George Obama as saying that he lived “on less than a dollar a month” and said that he “does not mention his famous half-brother in conversation” out of shame at his own poverty.[143] In later interviews, George contradicted this account. In an interview with The Times, he “said that he was furious at subsequent reports that he had been abandoned by the Obama family and that he was filled with shame about living in a slum.”[140]
He told The Times, “Life in Huruma is good.” George Obama said that he expects no favors, that he was supported by relatives, and that reports he lived on a dollar a month were “all lies by people who don’t want my brother to win.”[140] He told The Telegraph that he was inspired by his half-brother.[139] According to Time, George “has repeatedly denied … that he feels abandoned by Obama.”[144] CNN quoted him as saying, “I was brought up well. I live well even now. The magazines, they have exaggerated everything – I think I kind of like it here. There are some challenges, but maybe it is just like where you come from, there are the same challenges.”[142] George Obama and the British journalist Damien Lewis published George’s story in a 2011 book called Homeland.[145][146] George also appeared in the 2012 film, 2016: Obama’s America, which was widely considered an anti-Obama documentary.[147]
@calgary411
The folks at the Treasury are grimly creative.