With only short-term memory, you can recall that Eric warned us about the danger of old laws (such as CBT or FBAR) lying on the books: “Reed Amendment, Logan Act: why worry about unenforced & unenforceable laws? ”
Do you remember laughing at Ronald Reagan, when he said: “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction” I do.
And I remember having some thoughts of dismissing Eric’s article, too. (although those only lasted about 0.25 seconds)
Well, all it takes is a little sheeple-driven bipartisan politics to make it happen, and now it is happening.
It’s objective is for one side of the political spectrum to go after the other side of the political spectrum.
However, the Logan Act is not directed at political leaders, it is directed at guys like Logan himself, who is pretty much like you or me or any of the organizers of the citizens abroad groups.
There is no better way to spread propaganda, than to have propaganda spread itself. A petition such as this can come at any time and enforcement of the Logan act could begin at sunrise of any day.
Just look at your own facebook page and see how many times you have seen this petition. I’ve seen it twice so far. It has 42,078 signatures so far.
A mirror petition is now up on Whitehouse.gov
All it takes is a little hate (of one party or the other) to have laws like the Logan Act enacted.
MoveOn is Sick for raw power and is it not funded in major amounts by George Soros? Did Hillary Clinton not claim to have been one of the organizers of MoveOn ? Or am I mistaken ?
John Boehner should not be prosecuted under the Logan Act, he should be prosecuted for Treason!
The Canadian government not in a dispute or controversy over FATCA or the US taxation of Canadian citizens. Yet.
Anyone can start a MoveOn petition and there was even a petition there to stop FATCA, in fact I think the very first petition to stop FATCA was on those pages. The leadership over there doesn’t have to approve necessarily of the petition. So it looks like the author of the petition started this on their own. You can contact them by clicking their name at the top of the petition to ask the person your questions. I remember that is how I got in contact with the author of the FATCA petition who lives in Toronto and had her call in to the defunct blog talk radio show.
Soros did fund MoveOn at one point or donate to it but, I am not sure that is the case anymore and I don’t think Hillary Clinton funded them at all or if she did it was for a very limited time. Not that I care if she ever did. Some of what they used to do was not too bad. In later years they became something I didn’t really want to be part of but, wouldn’t be against bumping up the FATCA petition there if needs be. I wouldn’t worry about them too much. It’s just a collection of petitions with occassional actions during election time and not much else. Most of what goes on there isn’t top down at all. That petition is hardly going anywhere like most of the rest of the petitions on that site.
If I understand this correctly, the import of the Logan Act is that any of us deemed US citizens who are attempting to interfere with relations between the US and Canada over FATCA might be liable for prosecution under the Act.
Interesting. I won’t lose sleep over it, but in theory it would have a chilling effect.
Guess that up until I relinquished and ceased to be a US citizen, I was willfully guilty of;
“……§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States,.”
Of course, since the United States representatives who were supposed to respond to citizens contacting them with concerns never bothered to answer at all, or with anything remotely related to the issue I and the rest of us raised, the US basically adopted a policy of forcing people ‘abroad’ to commence “….correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government…” as our only recourse. And eventually, to save ourselves and our families by formally severing ties with the US.
What an absurd Catch 22, badger, Northern Shrike and Mark.
The US has some law for everything. What is our penance for those of us in Canada having corresponded time and time again with our Canadian MPs, OUR *supposedly* real government representatives — as those who have taken same steps in other countries?
Reading the text of the Logan Act, it would seem that even voting in a Canadian election or writing to your MP would be a violation. The narrative of the Obama government is that all expats are, by definition, criminals.
According to the US government this is just another in the long list of criminal offenses being committed by expats. Well screw them and their life control. Renouncing US citizenship is the only rational response to this kind of tyranny.
The dispute and controversy thus far has been between us and Canadian government. Because Canada capitulated to all the US’s demands, there’s no dispute or conflict there. The ADCS lawsuit, if successful, will create the conflict for the Canadian government if the Canadian government takes the position that it can no longer enforce FATCA in Canada.
Further down on this Whitehouse ‘We the People’ petitions page is the following petition that we all might consider signing (or reposting?)
Whatever one might think of the Logan Act, I have some sympathy with the point of the petition that opposition party leaders shouldn’t be inviting foreign heads of government to address the US Congress, that role arguably belongs with the President. The Canadian parallel would be having Justin Trudeau or Tom Mulcair inviting the new Prime Minister of Greece to address the Parliament of Canada, rather than such an invitation being issued by the PM or the Foreign Affairs Minister. I draw that comparison explicitly, because some Republicans feel politically close to Netanyahu and I suspect some Liberals and certainly NDP members feel politically close to the new left-wing government in Greece.
I wouldn’t get paranoid about this particular petition having implications for so-called US persons in Canada or elsewhere. This particular invocation of the Logan Act seems aimed at the rather provocative invitation the Republicans issued to the Prime Minister of Israel to address Congress, which one can argue was as unconstitutional and as much an abrogation of the powers of the US President and some of things that some Americans have (legitimately IMO) accusing Obama of committing. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander in politics, in any country …
This is the moveon.org FAQ page:
It appears Soros gave them $1.6M back in 2004 but nothing since. I agree with @Vlad in a wish-I-may-wish-I-might way (and there are dozens of others in addition to Boehner). There are so many in the WhiteHouse and in Congress (both sides of that very blurry line) who are “not fit for purpose” as the British would say and more than that they are downright corrupt. Since election has become selection, the citizenry cannot use voting to fix the situation and voices of reason are drowned out by the mighty propaganda megaphone. That leaves the judiciary but I’d hate to see the two-edged sword of the Logan Act pulled out to take a swing at Boehner and his ilk because it could smite a lot of innocents in the backstroke.
The Logan Act goes on to say:
Which seems to cover the FATCA litigation quite neatly.
.” The Canadian parallel would be having Justin Trudeau or Tom Mulcair inviting the new Prime Minister of Greece to address the Parliament of Canada, rather than such an invitation being issued by the PM or the Foreign Affairs Minister.”
The Repub are in power of one of the equal branches of government, not an opposition system. The USA is not a parliamentary system. If it was a parliamentary system and the house of representative won the majority in 2012. Some Republican would be Prime Minister of a USA.
Seriously have you not heard of Equal Branches of government. I always thought you were more intelligent than that. I was never an American and I knew that.
“The Constitution does not explicitly indicate the pre-eminence of any particular branch of government. However, James Madison wrote in Federalist 51, regarding the ability of each branch to defend itself from actions by the others, that “it is not possible to give to each department an equal power of self-defense. In republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates.”
Also when this was written the state legislature choose the Senators.
When Nixon was impeached did you think Democratic leader in congress were similar to opposition party in Canada, In addition you can have the President with the same party in power in congress when FATCA was approved.
More on equal branch of government
Obama like to do a lot of things with executive order.
A lot of people here wants the Senate to approve FATCA IGA deal.
Obama will not allow a vote.
I assume he will also ignore the Canadian Supreme court challenge and apply sanctions, if IGA is overturned.
@George III You said: “…A lot of people here wants the Senate to approve FATCA IGA deal.
Obama will not allow a vote….”
How does Obama or any other President prohibit the Senate or the House from voting on anything? You already made a point they are “Equal Branches of Government”…now you suggest Obama can interfere in the workings of the Senate. Contradiction as far as I can see.
Also, if the IGA is overturned, that does not trigger sanctions in itself. What that does is it puts the Canadian banks and other FIs in the same spot as those in countries that do not have IGAs. The court challenge is against the Canadian government not the US government. This will be a legal problem for Ottawa, not Washington…although it may well be a big political problem for Washington. Also, it will be very tricky for the US to simply slap sanctions of 30% on the biggest trading relationship in the world. Who can imagine what that will do to the financial markets.
Now at 137,000 that want to enforce the law that does not allow us to speak to the govts where we live
Senate Republicans Are Not in Violation of the Logan Act, Here’s Why
Mentions the legal doctrine of “desuetude”, which allows statutes to expire if they are never enforced.
Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/heres-why-senate-republicans-are-not-violating-the-logan-act/#ixzz3UB90kx1p
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Obama should respond to this idiot petition by encouraging members of his party in the Senate to introduce a bill repealing the Logan Act. Teddy Kennedy tried doing just that nearly four decades ago, apparently, but I guess now because it could be used to punish Elephants, Team Donkey have re-evaluated their “principles” on the Logan Act.
Logan Act huh ……