Cross-posting from ADCS-ADSC.ca blog congratulations to constitutional lawyer, Joseph Arvay, and his team on today’s unanimous Canadian Supreme Court decision, with the disclaimer as rightly suggested…
This post and the Canadian Supreme Court unanimous ruling is being cited solely to show the legal skills of Canadian constitutional lawyer, Joseph Arvay, and his team, not to discuss our agreement or disagreement with the ruling itself.
Congratulations to @ADCSovereignty lawyer Joe Arvay – SCC allows doctor assisted suicide
Joseph Arvay and team will use their same skills in working to uphold the rights of approximately one million Canadians, their spouses, their children, their business partners who presently face national origin discrimination (US-defined US citizenship / personhood) after the signing and implementation by Omnibus Bill C-31, of an intergovernmental agreement to allow US FATCA law to override Canadian laws and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
@WhiteKat @ George
Thank you. Yes, conflicted. Yes, a disclaimer would be advisable; perhaps the headings need to be more neutral, and not make assumptions as to all Brockers rejoicing over this “victory.”
I will say four things, and then get off the topic, as this forum should be about FATCA/IGA/CBT etc., as Tom mentioned above.
1) I believe in the Judeo/Christian ethic. 2) As such, I strive to live by the Decalogue which says “Thou shalt not kill. 3) Mr. Avray takes God out of the equation of life or death for the sake of individual ‘freedom’, or for the separation of church and state. 4) “Without God, man will justify anything,” a respected NY rabbi once told me. Without God, why bother trying to stop the suffering soul from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? No, I cannot celebrate the man’s victory.
Sorry Brockers for the detour. Back to FATCA & the things that are Caesar’s.
I admire the lawyer who won today. I donated tonight to Arvy and his team. They are super. I do care about today’s issue but I do not care about religion, but about the rights of people who want a choice at the end of their life. My grandfather was a pastor and my dad a pastor son, the most deadly combination. But the ACDS needs attention now. To protect the rights of Canadians.
Veritas –
My sympathies. One more depressing case of watching a herd stomp all over an outlier.
Would the libertarian view be that if you want to do yourself without doing yourself you need someone else who will do you so you can tell yourself you are not doing yourself?
Wake up, you already downgraded downhill demographic bulge. You are fast becoming an unbearable economic cost. It’s in the numbers. The first step has just been taken toward the right of society to euthanize you because it would rather spend on something else. The first step is the hardest. Precedent precedent precedent.
The kill-you implementing legislation is likely to make FATCA look like a comforting easily memorized nursery rhyme.
A lawyer is nothing but a tool. Think axe. Or sledgehammer.
@ usxcanada
I didn’t think anyone was stomping on anyone but I certainly hear the sound of your boots. Nobody here can ever be as clever as you, so I would have thought you’d be all for “kill-you” implementing legislation. By the way, there isn’t implementing legislation yet. The government has a year to create or not create implementing legislation. Oddly enough the government is going to give this long and careful deliberation … something it didn’t to with the FATCA IGA implementing legislation.
A demonstration of the skill of the chief of the ADCS legal team. This should add a bit to any fear among the opposition that they are going to lose.
Probably best not to dwell too much on the subject of the victory as it is a loaded one. There will be those supportive and those who are against.
The Democrats used the Bopp victory on campaign finance as part of propaganda against him and his taking on the case of fatcalegalaction.
Good. Now he can focus on the ADCS case.
@ JC
I think you’re right. The main thing is that Joseph Arvay and his team achieved a unanimous Supreme Court decision and that should make us all hopeful that they can do it again with the ADCS lawsuit.
@ USX Canada –
Thank you (I think?)
One thing that has become clear to me in this discussion: if Brockers want to attract all stripes to support the cause, the rhetoric has to change.
@USXCanada re: “One more depressing case of watching a herd stomp all over an outlier.”
Really, I thought we were pretty pleasant.
As usual, USXCanada has gone off on some incomprehensible tangent. This case was all about personal choice, just as our case is about personal choice. We want the courts to uphold our rights with regard to deciding whether we will each personally abide by a foreign law or we won’t. We don’t feel that it’s our government’s job to force us to do so. I choose not to do so for my own, what I consider very sound, reasons. Others may choose to do so for their own, very sound personal reasons, and that’s their own private biz, not anyone else’s, least of all, the Canadian government’s.
@usxcanada
You disappoint me. Not to gang up on you, but how is that if several people choose to directly address another commenter with opinions that are similar to each other’s and in opposition to the commenter’s that they’re somehow ganging up on anyone? It’s not their fault that few or none have voiced opinions different from theirs or in support of the other. Just because a few people happen to be of the same opinion it doesn’t mean that they are blindly following each other. You’re projecting.
If anybody would like to hear Mr. Arvay’s comments, he was interviewed on CBC’s “As It Happens” yesterday (Feb. 6) – replay is on the website.
Yes please. Thank you @Mr. A. And here’s the link …
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/episode/2015/02/06/friday-supreme-court-assisted-suicide-lawyer-frazee-palliative-care-doctor-hpv-vaccine-reaction-and/
@GwEvil re: “This case was all about personal choice, just as our case is about personal choice. We want the courts to uphold our rights with regard to deciding whether we will each personally abide by a foreign law or we won’t. ”
That is an interesting way of looking at our fight. I never really thought of it as a pro-choice issue.
@Veritas I agree with you in regards to attracting all stripes to support the cause – united we stand divided we fall, so the saying goes.
I have noticed on IBS quite a lots of “cons” bashing. Ok, it is the Conservative government who got the Canadian FATCA IGA through with minimal debate, due diligence, and in a sneaky hidden way. Yet there is not example of other major governments of the world putting up more resistance – all major governments approved IGA’s whether they were conservative, liberal, dictatorial, or communistic.
There must be many Canadians who associate themselves with the Conservatives who themselves were not responsible for the actions/inactions of the Conservative government and who would have opposed the passage of the FATCA IGA. Indeed as we have seen in America the liberal party of the Democrats putting up the FATCA legislation while many life-long Democrats saying that because of this they are now voting Republican based on this single issue. And, the conservatives leading the opposition to FATCA, CBT, FBAR penalties.
A point is I make is that perhaps such anti “cons” statements perhaps may be better expressed with more nuanced opposition. IBS may benefit by making “cons” comfortable in the community and with donations to ADCS.
Having said all this, I find it disappointing that Canada, UK, and Australia were among the first countries to sign IGAs. In the case of Canada, it is particularity disappointing in view of the relatively large number of US persons living in Canada – one million, with when family members are considered the laws impact perhaps, some say, 10% of the population. Also a disappointing, was that there was not more consideration of the measure in view of the very long border Canada shares with the US and relatively integrated trade links. One might imagine that the response in Canada post Jim Flaherty would have been significantly different than most other countries in the world.
Governments say that they were forced (via extortion) to sign IGA’s. They were not forced to remain quiet about it. They – Canada – could have raised a real ruckus about it that might have included such measures as expelling the US ambassador, say we will do it only when truly reciprocal information would be provided, etc to get the yanks attention. Canada, UK, Australia were not forced to be among the first nations to sign up.
So, while I encourage nuanced support for Arvay’s SC victory, so would I encourage nuanced opposition to the “cons.”
@Veritas
” if Brockers want to attract all stripes to support the cause, the rhetoric has to change.”
If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting some sort of censorship in order to attract others to this site?
I don’t know how long you’ve been lurking around but I do know that several others have tried to put a muzzle on people expressing their personal opinions here but didn’t get very far with it. Moreover, threats to withdraw funding from the ADCS-ADSC lawsuit didn’t get very far either.
With regards to this, I sincerely believe that respect for “freedom of expression” (including yours) has been one of the true and lasting strengths of this site. If you are really a Libertarian, you shouldn’t have much difficulty understanding what I’m trying to get at.
@JC
“A point is I make is that perhaps such anti “cons” statements perhaps may be better expressed with more nuanced opposition.”
I’m not Canadian so I don’t care about “con” bashing, other than I think if the shoe fits, they need to wear it.
Likewise, I’m not going to hold back one bit expressing my utter contempt for what the US Democratic Party has done by creating FATCA and using it as an enabler for enforcing CBT and FBAR. Having said that, I never held back my contempt for what the US Republican Party did under Bush with lighting the whole world on fire with war after war sold on a bunch of lies and bullshit. So if the shoe fits…… so be it.
@FromTheWilderness,
Careful, USXCanada is getting second hand embarrassment.
If the shoe fits …….
I think I understand what Veritas is saying and I agree. There is plenty of “con” bashing and it is probably a matter of “letting off steam” more than anything. I’ve done so here myself with Obama. But if we don’t stay focused, we sound petty, like Kermitzii did above in throwing religion and pastors under the bus (hey, why not offend conseratives, Christians and pastors too?) The point is the FATCA plague threatening 7 million people and the damnable IGA, its dreadful spawn. Vent here if you must but someone’s ox will be gored,count on it. Strong opinions are a must, but if they are tempered with courtesy, so much the better. Censorship is not the issue at all.
@JC While Isaac Brock should be welcoming of conservatives who disagree with the FATCA IGA, The Conservatives were in power and should have been more attentive to considering potential Canadian Charter violations for the reasons you provide. If IBS does not create enough of a ruckus then issues will not get noticed. It is another example of where the Conservatives failed in good governance and they should be held to account.
@LakeSuperiorGuy,
Hmmmm…Where did you get the impression that our newest Brocker was complaining about us “Con bashing”? And what is wrong with that anyway? Have you forgotten who sold Canada to the USA under the FATCA IGA? Honestly, sometimes I wonder where some Brockers balls are?
ooops…extraneous question mark.
@WhiteKat
I did not capitalize “con” indicating small “c” conservative…the kind that might not fall in with the pro-euthanasia crowd. Many Brockers like to cite their life-long leftward leanings on this site. Fine. But please allow others who have another story. BTW I would be happy to see Harper lose in 2015. Its just that the alternatives are rather frightening.
How many divisions…?
Though the Arvay fight is laudable and even overdue, it reminds me of the story about Stalin when he was told the Pope was not happy with his policy of sytematically destroying the entire Russian church infrastructure under his orders. His sardonic reply was, “how many divisions does the Pope have?”
My obvious point being that supreme court decisions rarely carry anything more than moral weight and do not obligate a corrupt or stubborn government to act any differently, or reverse any policy. For whatever reason(s), a hundred plus foreign and sovereign governments took aboard FATCA and the rest of the aphabet agreements and it isn’t likely any court decision anywhere will change anything.
Every FATCA IGA runs full in the face of foreign laws protecting their own citizens. The IGA’s themselves cannot be considered valid since treaties are the exclusive domain of the US congress. Certainly the Treasury Department cannot enter into numerous “agreements” just because it’s convenient…yet that’s exactly what they did and congress isn’t even upset.
So don’t tell anyone the US is ruled by the Constitution or, ha ha ha, the Bill of Rights. That’s done. That’s quaint history. Now money and the insatiable Fed Reserve set policy and politicians are just there to offer a veneer of democratic representation. There isn’t enough money in the entire world to absorb the totality of US debt, estimation to be over 90 trillion when unfunded liabilities are taken into account. Trillion is a cute word. You can tap somebody’s shoulder on the street and ask them “how much is a trillion dollars?”. You may or may not be surprised how few citizens can tell you that a trillion is one thousand billion. They’re so used to the word now that they just think it means a few billion or something. What’s all the fuss about…
The US government now runs on insanity, arrogance and exploding debt. FATCA is just another desperate, idiotic scheme to dampen the fire before the entire house burns down.
Meanwhile back at the Washington ranch, word has it that Obama’s IRS is proposing 3 year tax refunds to “amnestied” illegal aliens who will be filing for the first time. The average refund is estimated to be around 24 thousand dollars. It appears they’ve hit the jackpot those cute little illegals. Isn’t that precious. As someone who lost his UBS bank account last year (ok, there wasn’t much in it but I didn’t even get a reach around) I am even more enamored with the American Way!