Per requests by “i2” and George to highlight this Opinion article in a post…
Estonia Public Broadcasting, January — FATCA sows discrimination, unconstitutionality in banking
The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, the attempt by the US government to reel in money from its citizens living abroad (including people who may not know they are citizens) has been in the news for at least five years. Now, some six months after implementation, banks are getting serious about enforcement, causing tempers to rise and, in some cases, violating the Estonian Constitution.
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Estonian citizens are affected, too, and it’s here that some of Estonia’s biggest banks have begun acting in an unconstitutional manner.What has long been considered one of the biggest blessings – American by birth – has in this one case become an onerous burden. At most of Estonia’s banks, tellers have been instructed to check customer files for any sign of a connection to the US, such as place of birth. If a customer is flagged, then without preamble or explanation, the teller initiates a series of questions, such as “what is your taxpayer number” – by which they mean the US social security number.
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But there are quite a few folks with no actual connection with the US besides a place of birth. If they want to avoid the wrangle, the burden is on them to sort it all out. That is wrong.
I do understand the banks’ view. Because of the intergovernmental agreement between Estonia and the US, they’re in panic mode, because they know that eventually there may be a bad apple among the Americans, and if they don’t weed them out, they or their parent company could face major penalties on any institutional business they do with America.
But their response has been overweening and discriminatory. Essentially banks have assumed the role of being interpreters of US citizenship law, assuming that a place of birth is equal to citizenship or tax home in the US.
It’s ineffective as well, as the tactic would not detect US persons who were born in other places besides the US.
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…but the customer was let off with a warning that “soon things will get even more difficult” and a demand for a “letter from the embassy.”Oof. It’s always painful when organizations controlling money that belongs to you start acting shabbily. But besides setting a poor customer service standard and sowing bad blood, the banks’ actions may even be unconstitutional.
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There is no such thing as different grades of Estonian citizen based on where they were born – whether they were born in Russia and naturalized or born in Germany on the way to the US or born in the US somewhere along the long road to freedom and back. (There’s only one distinction made: those who have citizenship by birth cannot be stripped of it.)An Estonian citizen who is not conducting business with the US, who lives in Estonia, pays all taxes there, and is not aware of a connection with the US, should not be required by an Estonian bank to research and supply data from a foreign government at the citizen’s expense. Period. To argue otherwise is perverse. If the US wants to track down such persons, and use extraordinary rendition on them, or whatever the terminology nowadays is, that is their prerogative. If the bank wants to track down the data, that is their right.
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…a pure intellectual argument: no sort of discrimination should be tolerated. An Estonian citizen is an Estonian citizen.
I left a comment, under a different sobriquet, calling attention to the ADCS lawsuit.
The Black Comedian Chris Rock has said this phrase many times and I will write it just as he says it without editing for Political correctness; ” I am a rich nigger, and I will bet there ain’t a white guy in the world who would change places with me if he had to be Black”, There is a lot of truth here. The reason I quote it is I am going to paraphrase; ”If I was a Rich American, once anyone in the world would have changed places with me, but if they have to endure the Tax Laws as written in the 82,000 page tax code,
they’d stay poor where ever they live now, any place else”.
I particularly like the use of the word “perverse”.
I used to think the first of your two terms was the ugliest, hateful word in the English language (instilled in me from an early age by my dad who worked as a machinist and served in the military with those labelled such and would not allow such talk), along with “Wop” and “Polak” in the ethnic neighbourhood I have such good memories of growing up in for the first 12 years of my life. I don’t believe we should paraphrase it as a ‘Rich’ American — ANY American Abroad will do and should be added to this list of ethnic slurs by ethnicity compiles ethnic slurs that are, or have been, used in the English language. For the purposes of this list, ethnicity can be defined by either race, nationality or ethnicity.
Is it just nationals of the country involved who should be protected? I met a Brit recently here in the UK who considered his wife to be entirely Canadian, but he mentioned that she had been born in the U.S. He couldn’t believe that his wife, who pays British taxes on her part-time job, could end up on IRS tax hook simply based on the two days she had spent in the U.S. I hope he looked into it, but I don’t think he believed me.
It is all about divide and conquer.
Black, White. Police, citizens, Americans, Canadians.
Left, right. Rich, poor. ( The rich get richer, the poor get poorer)
With a half black man in the White House the division between black and white has been fostered , pushed, pulled agitated for by the very people who actually are an example of the LACK of division that actually exists. The REAL division is citizens against the governments they trusted to do what was right with their vote. Government initiative has resulted in the US in over 92 million people out of work and with no work in sight, even part time. Obamacare has seen to that. In the meantime their southern border is flooded by design with illegals.
It is division by design. Destruction by design. FATCA is invasion by design. OECD is infiltration into the sovereignty of ALL nations by design.
Anywhere, any way they can divide. When they do “they” win. We lose.
It is invasive and pervasive and it must be stopped.
WE can stop this with ONE lawsuit!! OURS!
It IS the finger in the dike that will protect people from the Tsunami of financial and societal ruin that has already ruined many and is coming for us all.!!
@calgary411
Being called american anything are fighting words now… I never thought I would see the day when it would… never ever imagined it… when I was growing up… if someone was american anything… it was oh cool… now people act like u said a bad word about their mums
@Publius
When I tell people about this… they act like I should be sitting in a corner with a tin hat on… until they discover themselves… then the OMG moment happens…
Sweden has similar reaction. Add to it an additional Swedish stupid law
https://bancdelasteroideb612.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/sweden-one-ups-usas-fatca-fbar-assumes-all-of-its-expatriates-to-be-corrupt/
SVT will soon be doing a followup on this with an American / Swedish dual.
Publius,
The US spouses wives of nationals certainly need the same protection – in Estonia, in Canada, in Timbuktu. Residence-based taxation — and litigation, Canadian, Estonian, Timbuktuian — and American.
Europe is just starting to heat up. Hopefully another lawsuit will soon be under way.
@NorthernShrike,
Thank you for mentioning the ADCS lawsuit in your comment. Would that the article had been written by Canada’s Finance Minister.
US_Foreign_Person, re;
“…When I tell people about this… they act like I should be sitting in a corner with a tin hat on… until they discover themselves… then the OMG moment happens…”
I keep finding out on a regular basis about co-workers, etc. who have Canadian family who’ve married an American and now live in the US, and who are now about to have to deal with the estate or finances/Power of Attorney of their aging/ailing Canadian parents. I try to warn them, but sometimes there isn’t anyone else to take on that role – so it falls to a US resident/citizen. So many people with a family member who moved there temporarily or now semi-permanently. Others with Arizona or Florida properties planning to move there to retire for part of the year.
Someone mentioned just casually today about a sibling in the US who will have to help sort out the affairs of an aging parent. A common scenario given the crossborder relationships of Canadians and the US. I warn people whenever I can, but sometimes there just is no way to segue into all the complexities when one finds this out in conversations about a person’s bereavement, or other family trials and tribulations, or if one finds it out in the course of work.
I truly shudder to think how many people are affected by this – who are NOT US taxable persons themselves, but who are going to have problems because of a US person handling their accounts, estate, etc. Or, are not US persons themselves, but are handling the accounts, estate, etc. of a US person abroad.
A human rights complaint needs to get launched in the EU, perhaps even several complaints.
Walter,
Here is a post regarding possibility of a EU Human Rights Complaint: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/01/10/eu-residentscitizens-this-is-for-you/.
A UN Human Rights Complaint has been submitted, a “read receipt” received, but no actual response from a *real person* at the UN as to when our Complaint will be reviewed. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/07/28/human-rights-complaint-on-behalf-of-all-u-s-persons-abroad-has-now-been-submitted/.
We all agree with your comment about the stupidity of US Citizenship-Based Taxation!!!
Become Aware,…. International Reparations Bank = IMF = World Bank = Federal Reserve Bank = Bank of Canada = Bank of England et All!
Same few families own all these around the world for the past several hundred years, they are calling the shots, not your government officials,….
Has Estonia had the stones not to sign an IGA?
I’ve added a reference to this article to my growing “dossier” of additional ammunition for human rights complaints. I’m looking for any references to actual FATCA/CBT experiences in financial institutions.
What a pity Boris Johnson caved in and paid.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-dodges-american-airport-5022314