As you know, I refused to fill out a W-8BEN for Scotia iTrade. First, I received a letter. Since then, I missed a phone call which I never returned. And now I’ve received at least two e-mails.
This video, with numerous screen shots from the Isaac Brock Society, explains why refusing to fill out bank paperwork increases the compliance cost for the bank, and effectively thwarts efforts of the banks to come into compliance with FATCA regulations.
Congratulations to the Isaac Brock Society!
From memory the IGA says essentially that if someone doesn’t respond, then the bank reports. The pressure is always on the bank to report.
It’s likely the banks will err on the side of caution and just report knowing that there are no consequences in doing so until the case gets to the Supreme Court.
That’s why everyone is exposed to FATCA. If you’re even not Canadian, only a Landed Immigrant, say from Europe, no US connections, but the bank suspects you come under FATCA, if you don’t prove your ‘innocence,’ the bank will report if you don’t respond.
In Panama where I live full time as a non-US citizen, my bank said it would close me seven year old, squeaky clean account if I did not
comply. They also required proof that I was not a US citizen, and then,
because I was born there, asked me to also sign a W9 form as well.
Last night before I fell asleep I hoped for a rise in the Sovereignty Thermometer (got it!) and that you would make an appearance at Brock (got it!). Since the banks weren’t all that concerned about their pending compliance costs (I believe the phrase “just a rounding figure” was bandied about) when they lobbied the Canadian government to sign and then implement a FATCA IGA here, I have no problem making things as difficult for them as I can. They cared not for their customers and this customer cares not for them. BTW, it hasn’t gone unnoticed by me that Mr. Perryman features a blatant blue pyramid in his video … all it’s missing is that evil, all-seeing eye. My hearing isn’t all that great. Was he talking about “outreach” or “outrage”?
What we need are some pithy replies to anyone trying to shove a “W” anything in our face.
EmBee, glad I could show up when hoped for. I think he said “outrage” and he used Isaac Brock as a quintessential expression of it.
Bravo!
The IGA also says that ‘third party’ entities can be hired to ‘report’ to the bank who then send it on.$10,000 per if I recall and then it is also deductible for the bank.
Can you say ‘SnitchesRUs! ?!
On the bank’s ability to deduct their reporting ‘expenses’… recall Jamie Diamond? He got to pay for no prosecution and then he got to deduct that payment. Ended up making even more money.
These are life altering issues and we all must choose our own paths. But to me resistance is the key. The school yard bully relies on fear, because he really doesn’t have the time or energy to subdue all the other kids. I’m willing to cop a beating, but first he’ll have to chase me around the playground for a few laps, and when he catches me, he’ll find my pockets empty. This will allow some other kids to keep their lunch money.
Those who choose to appease the beast should at least drag their feet a little. There are over 7 million intended victims, if each one causes even a minute delay here or there, it will add up quickly. The IRS is scary indeed, but their resources are finite. If everyone is willing to roll in the dirt with them, they will tire of the chase. They can’t really initiate 7 million more court cases. The same applies to the banks. They will not fight this as a matter of conscience, but will get mad if it costs too much money. My philosophy is “Just say no” , but for anyone who can play the system for an easy out, I simply ask that you do a little something that might tend to slow them down on your way to the exit.
When the British government passed a law to record births in Ireland in a civil register in the mid-1800s, the Irish continued to report their children’s births dutifully to the parish priest. The Irish, however, didn’t give a toss about complying with the British law. This is discussed by a priest and the narrator in this BBC program between 6:00 and 7:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE60CV172zs
Let everyday be St. Patrick’s Day for Americans abroad!
As always, were all to revolt, nothing could happen. Unfortunately, as always, the individual must at some point make the choice of self-preservation, and comply.
Nevertheless, their victory can be made difficult and costly. Foot-dragging, my friends, foot-dragging. I vow never to answer the bank’s first letter.
@ProudAussie: Re banks: “They will not fight this as a matter of conscience, but will get mad if it costs too much money.” That’s fabulous. I love it. Let’s make this thing a costly fiasco.
I will make sure my banks have more debt than assets when they find me — that should prevent them from freezing my accounts or throwing me out!!
@ Proud Aussie
Well said!
Perhaps every single financial transaction globally (credit card, debit card, bank transfer, standing order, etc) should be sent to the IRS… every second. And each and every person with a bank account should have their data sent to the IRS… every second. And each and every citizen registered in a country should have their data sent to the IRS by their governments… every second. And then, the megalomaniac IRS can sift through their trough of data like the disgusting pigs that they are…
And the little Canadian girl who was supposed to testify did not.
9 billion fine which turned out really to be 5 billion and all of it was deductible and the revenue went up to the tune of something like 50 billion.
From the video: Compliance of 100% cannot be achieved and they know it and do not care and if the FFI does not comply they are getting called up on the carpet. The end result is that everybody is going to get reported because if they get non compliance from customers they will do a blanket to protect themselves from this evil scheme.
His comment that the ‘FFI’s simply cannot comply without serious detriment to the customer.’ And that means ALL customers.
As the gentlemen said, ‘ my skweaky clean seven year old
account ‘ would be closed unless he gave them what they wanted.
I remember when I read all the details of the OECD guidelines ( which our government touted as the model for the Canadian IGA) it was plainly evil and very frightening to realize that those 40 countries in the OECD tax scheme are not what you would call free societies for the most part. Many are countries run by thug dictators who drool openly about having access to all this info for the fleecing. Much has been made about the US saying ‘no’ to the OECD tax regime ( in my view because they had their own criminal enterprise going for the moment)
However, it is not to be discounted that the US supplied 100 million dollars of US Taxpayer’s money to FUND the damn thing and pay the NON taxable salaries of these miscreants creating this monster.
FATCA is bad enough, but it is designed and will be morphed into GATCA ( the OECD tax scheme) in which they will know everything about everybody, individuals and businesses with NO loopholes , no means of escape.
With the onerous regulations FATCA requires of FFI’s while the noose gets tighter and tighter it is easy to see how quickly this can morph and is planned to morph no matter what ANY sovereign country tries to do, it is IMPERATIVE that our court case move as quickly as possible to head these dastardly deeds off at the pass.
DONATE TODAY , TOMORROW and EVERYDAY until we have this fully funded and our lawyer does all he can to mitigate the delays that are coming and will keep coming.
This JUST in:
“January 13, 2014
Punta Arenas, Chile
Yesterday, the IRS announced the International Data Exchange Service.
If you’ve not heard of it, it’s is an outgrowth of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which requires every single bank in the world to get in bed with IRS to share information about customers.
We’ve said this over and over, FATCA is probably the dumbest law in the history of the United States. And I don’t say that lightly, because there’s definitely stiff competition.
Like any other bankrupt government, the US government has taken to intimidating its own citizens and the entire world in an attempt to make ends meet.
Their hope was that the minority of people committing tax evasion would come clean and that it would result in some huge boost in tax revenue.
But the fact is that tax revenues actually haven’t improved at all.
Looking at tax revenue as a percentage of GDP, the numbers haven’t budged at all from their long-term average. Not a single bit.
So in actuality, FATCA has done nothing positive for America.
That said, FATCA has managed to destroy what little remaining credibility the United States government still had.
Bear in mind these people have spied on their allies, dropped bombs by remote control, and force fed people negative real interest rates and $18 trillion in debt.
But if that weren’t enough, FATCA goes after foreigners with absurd logistical challenges, commanding every single bank on the planet to comply.
Here’s the ultimate irony: there are nations in this world that are not recognized by the United States. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Abkhazia. Etc. Yet banks in these regions still have to sign up with the IRS.
It’s like— you don’t exist. But you must still comply.
The IRS tells us that so far more than 145,000 financial institutions have already signed information-sharing agreements.
Now with yesterday’s launch of IDES they have an online platform to invade customer privacy at every one of those banks. This is a terrible trend.
Now, because all these governments are bankrupt, banks have become unpaid financial spies required to treat customers as if we’re criminal terrorists.
The lifeblood of capitalism is capital, and banks are supposed to be the responsible stewards of our capital.
So by obstructing the ability of banks to engage in commerce, the US government is grinding down the pitiful remains of global capitalism down to the mere punch line.
This has consequences.
Perhaps more importantly, and the reason we think FATCA is the dumbest or at least the most destructive law in US history, is that it provides an enormous incentive for the rest of the world to simply avoid dealing with the United States.
There’s no bank on the planet that likes FATCA.
The only reason they comply is because the US has a nuclear option: sign up for FATCA or else we’ll withhold 30% of all transfers that go through the United States.
This is a big deal for banks.
Since the US dollar is the world’s dominant reserve currency, the majority of global transactions are denominated in US dollars and cleared through the US banking system.
This makes the US banking system critical to global finance. And it has long been a major advantage to the United States.
You would think that a government entrusted with such an awesome responsibility, from which it has benefitted for decades, would treat this advantage with dignity and care.
But no. Instead, the US government has turned its banking system into a weapon with which it threatens the entire world.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that the rest of the world is one day going to create its own alternative system. One that would no longer rely on the US dollar.
Oh wait— they’re already doing that.
With FATCA, the US has shot itself in the proverbial foot. They’re practically begging the world to please take away its last remaining financial advantage.
And the rest of the world is listening.
________________________________________
Simon Black
The Sovereign Man”
@FuriousAC
I would love to scoff at the idea of Gatca becoming a reality, but after watching many decent countries sign up for IGAs, I have a lot less faith in our democracies. On the bright side, if the world signed up for a tax treaty like that, there would almost certainly have to be a clause to keep countries like Eritrea, and their mates Amerika, from double dipping.
@Fred
If we all just waste ten minutes of their time, that’s over 1 million man hours at their end. Never answer the first letter, don’t return phone calls, and if corralled into an in person interview, make them ask every question several times, and don’t volunteer any new information. Feets, get draggin’
@FuriousAC
Yes, you got it all right.
FATCA is not a frisbee sent off to the rest of the world to the advantage of the USA
FATCA is a boomerang that is going to come back and hit the US dollar and the US economy very hard.
The USA has just lost it’s world leadership.
@Petros
I have also refused to fill out W9 document and will never comply to the IRS (Have lived permantly in France since 1973).
I have sent numerous emails to my bank and I do not have enogh money on my bank accounts (200 000$ for one US person living permantly abroad) for them to have to report me to the IRS.
I have warned them that if they do, I will imediatelly sew them in court for giving away private banking information that they did not have to.
French deputy Frederic Lefebvre who is speaking up in french parlement against FATCA and the IGA has offered me his support. Here is his blog : http://www.frederic-lefebvre.org/fatca/
It may be of interest to other EU citizens that as of 2016, EU banks cannot refuse to open a resident EU citizen a basic bank account. This is something people in the EU should look into next year.
How could FATCA compliance ever be even near acceptable when there will be so many false-negatives, that is account holders who show no “indicia”?
If the number of people wittingly or not manage to fly under the radar, doesn’t the US at some point have to concede that FATCA in not accomplishing what it’s intended to, or worse, try to force the banks to use other methods to ferret all of us out?
FATCA expertise going rate @$15. CDN per hr. ?
Ex. http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/ofc/4845137103.html
Wonder what that means for the quality of the FATCA compliance generated, and what it will entail re the ‘client relationship’?
A measly $15.00 an hour for a job title “FATCA Specialist”. Amazing!!! Hope I don’t have to go back to work for another administrative job like such! How many security mistakes will be made by those who will accept those duties at $15.00 per hour? Really makes me feel confident putting our information in the hands of these new “FATCA Specialists”.
@Proud Aussie – I used to say that about FATCA and the world jumped on the FATCA bandwagon rather than fight the USA. I suspect in todays terror fear inspired world, GATCA will also be a success unless it can legally be stopped.
@ badger
Let’s not forget the personal liability a FRO will be taking on with his/her new job. Wonder what their pay grade is.
http://finops.co/compliance/fatca-responsible-officers-be-careful-very-careful/
FATCA Specialists will have fewer qualms about destroying people’s lives if they aren’t paid to think.
Anybody else noticing something odd about the printscreens of Brock on this video? The dates of the comments on the post are for August 2014 yet the left hand side list of most recent comments refer to current posts.
@Tricia
The post he refers to was published on August 2, 2014 but the video was just posted today, January 13, 2015. You can also see today’s date in the menu bar at the top of his screen.
Here’s the post he used as an example: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/08/02/philippines-metrobank-plays-fatca-hardball-with-an-ex-client/
@Bubblebustin
I also think they are called IRS agents… paid to destroy lives… but bright enough not to pay their own taxes… they get to skate through that… if we didn’t pay taxes… we would be screwed… wait… we do pay taxes & we are being screwed harder… how is that fair…